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+--- Thread: The Jock vote (/showthread.php?tid=70258)
Re: The Jock vote - lew600fazer - 13-09-14
Mick&VNA, Hope you do not think I am being anti Scottish, I am not, with a name like McColl how can I be, I am very pro British my brother lives in Crosshouse and all his family went through the Scottish education system , Dentist, Doctor and a Lawyer so not exactly numpties, my brother was director of finance for Strathclyde University all are voting NO.
On the question of EU membership surely Scotland will still have to apply and that process will not be done and dusted overnight.
Why seek EU memebrship, at least if Scotland did go their own way you can control your own borders and say who comes into the country. This is one of the biggest gripes going on within the UK as in the influx of foreign nationals from eastern europe.
If I was in the YES camp I would be pressing for closer ties with the likes of Norway rather than the EU. Cameron has said if re-elected he will hold a referendum on the UK /EU membership, personally I do not believe that will happen or it will be worded in such a way regardless of the outcome we will stay in the EU
Re: The Jock vote - VNA - 13-09-14
Quote:On the question of EU membership surely Scotland will still have to apply and that process will not be done and dusted overnight.
Lew we will be asking for continuation of our membership. We will have at least two years to negotiate terms with the EU. Scotland is already fully integrated in every possible respect in everything we do with the EU. I like every Scot am an EU citizen.
A lot of people are voting YES becuase they do not want to be dragged out of the EU club by the English.
Quote:Are you actually believing that Scotland will dictate what goes on off the coast of Scotland concerning the resources/reserves of Oil&Gas of the coast.
Is the remainder of the UK going to ignore international law?
Quote:Do you YES voters think that England and the rest of the UK will just quietly accept the loss of the wealth that the oil industry from the N Sea generates.
We've sat and watched that wealth, our wealth be wasted and squandered for decades.
Re: The Jock vote - lew600fazer - 13-09-14
Is the remainder of the UK going to ignore international law?
It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.
Re: The Jock vote - VNA - 13-09-14
Quote:It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.
OK you gotta point there Lew, I'll give you that one, I mean British Empire and all that, England just takes what it wants :lol
Re: The Jock vote - mickvp - 13-09-14
(13-09-14, 02:27 PM)lew600fazer link Wrote: Mick&VNA, Hope you do not think I am being anti Scottish,
not at all mate, nowt wrong with a bit of healthy debate :thumbup
Re: The Jock vote - lew600fazer - 13-09-14
(13-09-14, 08:37 PM)VNA link Wrote:Quote:It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.
OK you gotta point there Lew, I'll give you that one, I mean British Empire and all that, England just takes what it wants :lol
VNA, Come on now, the British Empire and the making of it involved the Scots , The Irish and abley assisted by our fellow Celts the Welsh.
Just toss this one into the mix name one successful Pure born English General/Field Marshal
Re: The Jock vote - esetest - 13-09-14
all this flag waving is horseshit as long as ordinary people keep fighting and blaming eachother then the wealthy and the politicians will keep there snouts in the trough .
Re: The Jock vote - VNA - 14-09-14
Quote:VNA, Come on now, the British Empire and the making of it involved the Scots
Absolutely. Just today the Scots hang their heads in shame, while the English mourn the loss of their glory days.
Re: The Jock vote - lew600fazer - 14-09-14
(13-09-14, 09:20 PM)esetest link Wrote: all this flag waving is horseshit as long as ordinary people keep fighting and blaming eachother then the wealthy and the politicians will keep there snouts in the trough .
Estest,No one is under no illusion that the pigs will still have their snouts in the trough regardless of which way the vote goes. There are some decent politicians though not all rotten to the core , Frank Field to name one.
Re: The Jock vote - Deefer666 - 14-09-14
It pisses me off that our governments can organise a referendum for Scotland's independence in such a sort space of time and yet still not give the UK population a referendum on independence from Europe after all these years. WTF?
Re: The Jock vote - red98 - 14-09-14
agree with that deefer......its the "them and us game" there ok,looking after each other,its the hard working who pay their way that gets clobbered.....think we should stay together,strength in numbers and all that.....so what about our title...."Great Britain"....includes...england,wales,ireland and scotland.....!!!!!!!!
Re: The Jock vote - nick crisp - 14-09-14
I think the Scots will just be exchanging one set of greedy, self-serving politicians for another. Ca plus ca change...
Oh, and VNA, don't think you can claim to speak for the English too. What makes you think I mourn the loss of empire?
And what's the sense of hanging your head in shame for the sins your forbears committed? Not your fault is it? We learn the lessons, and hopefully move on in a better direction.
Oh shit, I meant to stay out of this one :\ :lol
Re: The Jock vote - midden - 14-09-14
(13-09-14, 08:53 AM)VNA link Wrote: Thatcher used Scotland's oil to put four million plus working class people on the dole.There's a reason then for Scotland to hold it's head in shame then, it helped to put English and Welsh working class people on the dole.
(14-09-14, 07:42 AM)Deefer666 link Wrote: It pisses me off that our governments can organise a referendum for Scotland's independence in such a sort space of time and yet still not give the UK population a referendum on independence from Europe after all these years. WTF?Probably held off until after the Scottish referendum to get a fairer and more accurate result regarding EU. That is presuming they intend to go ahead with EU referendum
Re: The Jock vote - Deefer666 - 14-09-14
But the Scottish Yes party have not even finalised a constitution yet, nor have they submitted details of how their finances will work. I fear this has less to do with independence and more to do with certain politicians carving out an empire for themselves and getting rich in the process.
How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to? seems half baked to me.
Re: The Jock vote - midden - 14-09-14
Salmond has just said on the radio 'There are no 'no' votes only deferred yes's.'
So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.
All rather pot kettle to me
Re: The Jock vote - richfzs - 14-09-14
(14-09-14, 08:49 AM)Deefer666 link Wrote: I fear this has less to do with independence and more to do with certain politicians carving out an empire for themselves and getting rich in the process.
(14-09-14, 10:11 AM)midden link Wrote: So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.
From what I see, it's all about Salmond, absolutely. There are plenty of Scots folk genuinely want independence for its own sake, and that's fine - but for Salmond, it's about him him him. His style of politics is (has always been), when he doesn't like what someone tells him, he just ignores them until they go away (or don't go away, he doesn't seem to much care) - pretty much in the grand tradition of African dictators.
(14-09-14, 08:49 AM)Deefer666 link Wrote: How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to? seems half baked to me.
Yep, this too. "We'll work out the details later". I worry that they're not going to like the details - Salmond is going to find that the EU wont just roll over and give him what he wants, he'll be playing on a much bigger stage than he's used to, and he's just not a big enough politician for that. Grim times ahead, in the event of a yes vote (not that that isn't true if the vote is no!).
Re: The Jock vote - VNA - 14-09-14
Sorry Nick I was of course talking in general terms and of course tongue in cheek. But on a serious note why are the Queen's honours entitled things like Order of The British Empire. Now I'm never gonna be offered one, but that is not a title I would wish to have bestowed upon me, nae thanks tae that.
Quote: How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to?
What we will say YES to on Thursday is to have a government of our own choosing, to have policies put in place that we have voted for, rather than have a Tory government imposed upon us, a millionaires cabinet of Eton Bullingdon boys - the Westminster elite. Labour? New Labour = New Tories.
I think a lot of people in the rest of the UK don't understand how we got to this point. A quick history lesson - For decades Westminster has been worried about the rise of nationalists in Scotland, particularly as Scotland struck it rich with North Sea Oil. In 1997 they gave us The Scottish Parliament, giving us day to day control of a number of key areas ie devolution of select powers. This parliament was designed to solve the Nationalist issue forever. It was designed so that it was impossible for any one party to hold an overall majority. A proportional representation parliament that delivered coalition government (you know the kind of government that the UK didn't believe in anyway but good enough for the Scots). The nationalists policy is take what you can get when you can get it, so Scotland voted for it. Naturally Labour, the party of Scotland came to power supported by the Lid Dems. And that should have been that - the Nationalists tied up for ever and a day - problem solved. But Labour then took it's orders from London. Time and time again The Scottish Labour Party caved into the big boys at Westminster and Scots didn't get the polices that Scottish Labour promised. And it wasn't long before everybody could see that London called the shots. So this time it wasn't just the Nats telling London to piss off, it was all the Labour voters too. So what happened? The Scots eventually did what was supposed to be impossible, they voted in an SNP majority in a coalition parliament. What's always in an SNP manifesto? Yup a referendum on independence! But that's not within our powers. But considering what had just happened to Labour up here, London had no choice but to grant it.
Quote:So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.
Not quite. Yes he will. But I'm not a member of the SNP, I voted Labour at the last general election. This is not about Alex Salmond, it's not what Alex wants, it's about democracy, what people in Scotland want. I've wanted it for over 20 years, I want it on Thursday, I'll always want it. I do not want to be ruled over by an English Tory elite for one second more than I have to.
I think if it's YES on Thursday, something else will happen. A lot of people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will wake up on Friday morning and think - fucks sake look at what the Scots have just gone and done, they've rid themselves of the those scum bag fucking Tories bastards. You might start thinking - we can do it too.
Re: The Jock vote - VNA - 14-09-14
Quote:From what I see, it's all about Salmond, absolutely.
That's what the English press want you to believe.
That's what the Tory party wants you to believe.
That's what New Labour wants you to believe.
That's what Better Together wants you to believe.
I've got a letter here from the Labour Party. It's addressed to me. It says;
Dear Gareth - If you don't know - vote NO! (condescending fuck wits - I mean fuck right off)
The name Alex Salmond in one short letter is spelt out 11 times.
So is it any surprised richfzs, from what you see, that you think this is all about Alex Salmond?
On Thursday there is a referendum on Scottish Independence. It's not about the SNP, it's not about Alex Salmond, it's not a popularity rating or approval poll, it's asking people in Scotland, do you want Tory rule from Westminster, or do you want to elect your own government.
Oh yes Richfzs from what you see it's all about Alex Salmond. I do understand that.
Re: The Jock vote - darrsi - 14-09-14
http://bcove.me/r08toop4
Re: The Jock vote - richfzs - 14-09-14
Nah Andy, you misinterpret (and probably, I didn't phrase very well). As I said, there are plenty of Scots folk want independence for it's own sake - and I can understand that. I live in Newcastle, and feel more kinship with Edinburgh than I do London.
I mean, for Salmond, its all about him, and what he can do to further himself. I know 2 people pretty well, who are ardent Yes voters (one in Dunfermline, the other in Larbert), and both are of the opinion that they'll use Salmond to get their independence, and then at the next election, kick the slimy toe-rag into touch.