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+--- Forum: FZS600 Fazer (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=78)
+--- Thread: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth (/showthread.php?tid=66148)
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - BluprintZ - 24-01-14
The conflict between the charging and ignition systems was showing up on the Dyno's oscilloscope as two "tracer" lines, when there should have been only one, for the ignition system test.
That, apparently is how he sussed out that there was a conflict.
The reg/rec unit was around £50 brand new on ebay and that instantly sorted the problem, although as i mentioned, the damage to the battery cell had already been caused by this problem.
G ; )
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - spider - 26-01-14
wow what a long thread to sort out. mine had same problem sorted in seconds. but I guess it wont fix yours. I bought a new long d lock. took off cardboard and put that bit under my seat. it slid down between petrol tank and air filter. bike run to top speed of 50mph. pulled out cardboard and bike went ok. end of. if only yours was that simple..... or have you bought. naaa you cant be as lucky as me. ru?
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Torque - 10-02-14
I've replaced rectifier a week ago, but it didn't help.
Today I've replaced alternator and pick-up coil, it didn't help
Now the only thing I would like to replace are the ignition coils.
Do you think that it's better to buy used or "china" brand new? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Ignition-HT-Coil-Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-98-03-/190614785844?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2c6186cf34
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Lez72 - 11-02-14
If it were me personally I would go for 2nd hand genuine ones, however, I'm sure people have used your linked item with success.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Torque - 11-02-14
I've bought the brand new. It's just a coil, so I don't think it should really matter if it's genuine.
Update very soon.
Fingers crossed.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Torque - 26-02-14
Ok guys. Done lots lots of things, but the stutters problem still happens.
What I've already done:
- disassembling, dismantling carbs, cleaning with detergent and blowing with compressor, put them back, then synchronized, caps (for synchro) are in place. Inlet rubbers are fine, diaphragms are fine, and moving without problems;
I've set the idle screws 2,25 turns out.
- replaced spark plugs, spark caps, bought brand new HT coils (chinese one), replaced the ECU, replaced the alternator and pick-up coil,
- measured the resistance of TPS and adjusted it, so it's on 5K rpm,
- replaced the fuel with a new one, also added some isopropyl additive (to make sure there is no water),
- sprayed all connectors, plugs, near the ECU, the alternator and pick-up coil plugs and all plugs in the compartment just under the fuel tank with the electric cleaner: http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_195717_langId_-1_categoryId_255223
- checked if choke cable it's not too tight (and choke it's not enabled as a result)
- checked and cleaned the air filter,
- bypassed the fuel filter and fuel pump to test whether bike works better (no effect at all)
The problem in short:
- When very cold, bike starts, on idle it runs like on 2-3 cylinders. Adding gas more than 1/10th results in bike starts stuttering. Adding full gas at this moment means that you won't hear any engine noise except the throttle: 'buuuuuu'. Reaching 30mph means really smart throttle play, if not your engine will die.
When you push a throttle very little like 1/20th or sth, there is chance that you will hear proper engine noise and bike running on 4 cylinders, but if you try to add more... unfortunately dies.
- When warmer (after about 1 mile), bike still runs on less than 3 cylinders, but the difference is that adding full gas don't kill it, it makes bike stutters and backfiring for 2 sec, then it accelerates with about 20-30% of it's power.
- When warm (after about 5 miles), same as above, but have somewhere around the 50% of power, also sometimes you can feel the vibrations like the only 1 cylinder does not work.
- Still warm (after about 10 miles). Bike most likely runs on 3 cylinders, but when you hit the gas carefully (not more than half) then you can hear sometimes 4 cylinders running. Sudden accelerations cause the backfire, struggling for a sec then accelerating with sometimes full power, sometimes somewhere around 70-80%.
- Still warm (after about 20 miles). Bike basically works on 4 cylinders (in the mid and high range). Idle is always like 3 cylinders running. Rare situation when it struggles to accelerate, most likely it means that you've suddenly pushed throttle from low range.
Some notes:
- Adding choke when bike stutters makes thing better, you can add little bit more gas, and skyrocket your speed (in the first stage of stutters) from 30mph to insane 40mph,
- Bike was not used for about 2 weeks and was under cover, but noticed that there is some water around the 3rd cylinder (the cylinder that's exhaust little bit colder when bike starts),
- My method of detecting how many cylinders are running it's just noise from the exhaust combined with the vibrations that you can feel on handle bar,
- When bike stays for about week, when turning on the ignition fuel pump clicks very fast for around 2-3 sec (fuel evaporates?)
Guys do you have any ideas what could be wrong?
1. Is it something to check in the ignition system except the things I've mentioned?
2. Why my bike needs as much as about 20 miles to start running in a not acceptable, but rideable level?
3. The problem seems to affect all cylinders as I can feel when bike runs on 2 cylinders, 3 and 4.
4. What else can I check?
5. Anyone knows a good garage in the Trowbridge, Bath area?
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - red98 - 26-02-14
have you read the "dyno`d today" thread.....might be worth a go
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Wookee - 26-02-14
My money is on fuelling here.....as a couple have mentioned earlier - check your breather pipe. You say it only started recently and it kinda coincided with you blocking the drain pipe. Sure it's the drain pipe and not the breather?? Also, why did you need to block the drain pipe in the first place?
Make sure both are unblocked and you can blow through them.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Torque - 26-02-14
(26-02-14, 09:02 PM)red98 link Wrote: have you read the "dyno`d today" thread.....might be worth a go
I would have a go, when my bike is fixed. What's the point of going on dyno, when bike runs like ****?
I thought that dyno it's just for adjusting, tuning, not the fixing, right?
(26-02-14, 10:50 PM)Wookee link Wrote: My money is on fuelling here.....as a couple have mentioned earlier - check your breather pipe. You say it only started recently and it kinda coincided with you blocking the drain pipe. Sure it's the drain pipe and not the breather?? Also, why did you need to block the drain pipe in the first place?Make sure both are unblocked and you can blow through them.
Breather pipe it's clear. Drain pipe is blocked, because of fuel leak (possibly corroded inside of the tank).
Of course that's the theory. The way I've determined which one it's the breather and which one it's the drain, was just assumption that breather pipe can't leak.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - red98 - 27-02-14
(26-02-14, 11:24 PM)Torque link Wrote: [quote author=red98 link=topic=10534.msg130079#msg130079 date=1393444955]
have you read the "dyno`d today" thread.....might be worth a go
I would have a go, when my bike is fixed. What's the point of going on dyno, when bike runs like ****?
I thought that dyno it's just for adjusting, tuning, not the fixing, right?
(26-02-14, 10:50 PM)Wookee link Wrote: My money is on fuelling here.....as a couple have mentioned earlier - check your breather pipe. You say it only started recently and it kinda coincided with you blocking the drain pipe. Sure it's the drain pipe and not the breather?? Also, why did you need to block the drain pipe in the first place?Make sure both are unblocked and you can blow through them.
Breather pipe it's clear. Drain pipe is blocked, because of fuel leak (possibly corroded inside of the tank).
Of course that's the theory. The way I've determined which one it's the breather and which one it's the drain, was just assumption that breather pipe can't leak.
[/quote]
hi torque...sorry , i was`nt suggesting a dyno run......just having a play with the needle settings,a stab in the dark i know but might be worth a try
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Fazerider - 28-02-14
If adding a bit of choke helps, that really points towards mixture as the problem.
Have you checked the fuel levels in the carbs? It's a slightly fiddly job but might reveal where the fault lies. (You are correct, the few seconds clattering from the fuel pump is normal after the bike's stood for a while as it tops up the levels lost to evaporation.)
What do the plugs look like after a run?
If neither of those ideas bear fruit, it might be time to stick a compression tester on it.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - davidkent - 28-02-14
I'm from around the area you are, May even recognise the bike if the last 3 letters on the plate are RWO...
Unfortunately i'm not too much help on the bike scene though
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Torque - 01-03-14
(28-02-14, 06:29 PM)davidkent link Wrote: I'm from around the area you are, May even recognise the bike if the last 3 letters on the plate are RWO...Hey, Yeah I am the the RWO guy also noticed another 2 red FZS600. One of them is the Charlie from Bristol, but did not meet another yet
Unfortunately i'm not too much help on the bike scene though
.According to my issue I think I've found the problem:
![[Image: 2014_03_01_19_12_51.jpg]](http://s21.postimg.org/yao3aojhj/2014_03_01_19_12_51.jpg)
This is raw dump from the carbs.
As a part of analysis I've added isopropanol both to the clean petrol and petrol with water. Isopropanol made the fluid homogeneous, so I think that I will add the 100ml isopropanol per tank, before I will sort my tank.
My theory is that when drain pipe is blocked the water goes into drain pipe, but it does not go outside it stays inside the drain pipe. However the drain pipe is rusted inside of the tank (because petrol can leak to it), so water goes straight to the fuel.
Unfortunately FZS600 engine does not want to run on water.
EDIT: Please do not show that photo to my girlfriend. she will kill me that I've used glass from the kitchen
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - His Dudeness - 01-03-14
You should probably get another tank or you'll keep having the same problem
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Wookee - 02-03-14
Or, you could repair it with one of these kits. I just happen to have one in my garage that I bought for my classic car but found I didn't need it. If you're interested then PM me.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - dBfazer600 - 02-03-14
(10-02-14, 10:46 PM)Torque link Wrote: Now the only thing I would like to replace are the ignition coils.
Do you think that it's better to buy used or "china" brand new? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Ignition-HT-Coil-Yamaha-FZS600-Fazer-98-03-/190614785844?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2c6186cf34
I got these that I have been using for about three months now. I noticed a clicking when idling but could not find the point of arc. Yesterday I found it coming through mid point of HT lead on number 3 cylinder. I have not noticed any reduction in performance but keep this in mind if your going to keep these coils on.
Hope you have identified the problem as you show.
Daz
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - davidkent - 02-03-14
Had a feeling you were - remove and totally clean the tank?
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - MarkWales - 09-03-14
Mine is running the same as this - drained my Carbs to fins the same result as yours.
Need to look into my drain on the tank
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - Torque - 10-03-14
Hurray, my bike is running almost properly... after few months, the problem occured to be water in the fuel.
Basically I was not using my bike so often, but after spilling about 300ml of isopropanol and about half tank of ride, bike is running well.
Still had some minor stutters, but finally after around 200 miles done during weekend it's gone.
Conclusions (propably for most of you it's obvious). If you want to make sure if your fuel is bad, just fill glass of petrol straight from carbs or from tank and see if there is water inside.
If you want to replace fuel with new one, remember to drop the petrol from carbs, then from tank, then fill new fuel and drain (from carbs again) about 100ml of fresh fuel. This is to remove the old fuel from fuel filter and rubber hoses.
Of course it does not mean that everything it's alright:
- still looking for the tank, unfortunately missed the ebay auction, there was brand new (used only 4 weeks) tank for 80 quid,
- still bike runs on idle on 3 cylinders, and stutters between 1000-2000RPM. I reckon that it may be problem with idle mixture screw on 3rd cylinder (it's colder than the others), also I don't have tool to adjust that screw without removing carb (it's in really bad place).
All the best.
Re: FZS600 - No power, won't go faster than 50, engine not smooth - aj_finchuk - 11-03-14
I'd been following some of your posts as you've got a similar problem to mine. I did laugh at how small a world it is when the chap who I'd bough this 4 week old petrol tank through eBay said that the other bidder was from Bristol. I thought to myself it could only be you. Thanks for the iso tip.