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Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Printable Version

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Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - kebab19 - 09-10-13

That's handy, didn't know there was a Haynes held on the site!
The usual general rule applies, the larger the bolt the more torque needed. The bottom damping rod bolts are the possible exception - it depends whether you want to secure them using blue loctite as normal or just torque 'em a bit more without loctite (as you may have to disassemble forks again if your damper rod's drilled holes are too small).


Regarding air gap, very similar to standard oil height measurement - forks compressed, springs & spacers out but emulator still in place (as it obviously displaces a certain volume of oil).

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 09-10-13

(09-10-13, 11:38 AM)Dead Eye link Wrote: There is a downloadable Haynes on the site; http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=22

Its mostly for the Boxeye but anything not relating to electronics / fairing is pretty much identical


:thumbup

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 09-10-13

(09-10-13, 11:51 AM)kebab19 link Wrote: Regarding air gap, very similar to standard oil height measurement - forks compressed, springs & spacers out but emulator still in place (as it obviously displaces a certain volume of oil).


Thanks Jeff. I noticed on the link you provided about changing seals it mentioned the stanchions can jam if they go too low, is this a nice little minefield then? Is there an obvious point in the stanchions movement that's "that's far enough" or is it a just drop 'em and see dealeo?


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - kebab19 - 09-10-13

They can indeed jam which is a PITA. Hard to explain, but it'll be obvious if you do it. If you have oil in them & try and force slider up it can turn into a mess trying to free it off!

I managed to free mine off fairly easily. Reattach fork cap to avoid spillage & re-insert the fork leg back into it's yoke & then tighten the bolts. Then use a rubber mallet to thump on the lower stanchion where the dust seal rests. A well placed blow usually forces the two apart again. Probably sounds a bit barbaric but a rubber mallet shouldn't do any real damage!

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 12-10-13

OK, progress so far:




Both forks off and guts removed!
[smg id=1220]


Noticed the right fork damper rod was missing the very small spring at the bottom, or to put that another way, the left fork had an extra spring. Can't see what on earth it does. Was a bit surprised how short the springs were


Damper rod removal system.
[smg id=1221]


Old oil, still got a strong red tinge so suggests it's been changed some when in the not too far past.
[smg id=1222]


Both forks jammed - hurrah. However after removing the damper rod they freed straight up, so a bit of care on reassembly and all should be good.


Right, time to drill the rods and chop the spacer tube.


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - bbb - 12-10-13

When you say it had an 'extra' spring do you mean the top-out spring or something not in the pics. Just curious.

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 12-10-13

You can just see it in the first  pic, left set of innards, between the preload cap and the main spring. It's tiny. I looked in the fork seal thread and there wasn't one in any of those pics.


Rods drilled now and spacers chopped. Drilled to 9mm and set emu to 2.5 turns, hoping for a smooooth ride! Starting to put things back together now.


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 12-10-13

OK, results are in, generally a big improvement. I may have pushed my expectations a little far hoping for a magic carpet ride over some of the unclassified roads around me but it was still better on them than before. On As and decent Bs it was very nice and smooth, even when aimed deliberately at some potholes. Still need to measure the sag and tweak the preload then I'll live with it for a while before deciding if I need to tweak the emu or not.


Guess I also need to save some pennies for the R6 shock too, d'oh!  :rollin


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - kebab19 - 12-10-13

Hi Rob,
Glad you've got a good starting point. Can I ask if you have standard or aftermarket springs?
Don't write the emus off just yet, sometimes a bit of tweaking can get them where you want 'em.

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - wezdavo - 12-10-13

Hi Rob,
Have you put a zip tie on the stantion to see how much travel you are using?

What air gap and oil weight did you use?

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 12-10-13

Hi Guys,

Standard springs as far as I know. I went with a 130mm air gap and 15wt oil. Definitely not writing of the emus, there's a clear improvement and will no doubt make my usual riding a more pleasant affair now. Good idea on the zip tie though, I'll pop one on tomorrow and see what I get.

Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 14-10-13

OK, zip ties reveal I'm bottoming out, so for starters I'd best ramp up the preload a far bit. Looking at the troubleshooting diagram on the burgman thread:
http://burgmanusa.com/bkb/650+Race+Tech+Installation


I guess I've got too little compression damping, so I guess I need to tweak the emu to maybe 3 turns.


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - kebab19 - 14-10-13

Rob,
Hard to say for sure, but it may be the standard springs holding things back.
Both my conversions used alternative fork springs and it may be the case that the FZS springs just aren't up to the job no matter what tweaking you do.
Although I used Racetech linear springs 1st time round, with the Debrix emu installation I used Honda VFR progressive springs. The improvement appears to be in the length of spring dedicated to hard / soft. The pictures below indicate the VFR springs, then a pic with a TRX850 linear spring and the bottom spring from my Fazer 600. The difference in the amount of tighter wound coils is quite obvious between VFR & Fazer. I suspect that this is the problem, and Yamaha got the ratio & spring rate wrong for the bike - too much spring dedicated to soft travel and the stiff part of the spring too high a spring rate to try & compensate.
Rather than choking on £85 for suitable K-tech linear springs, you can get 41 mm springs from other bikes to fit for £10-30 if you're patient on ebay. I'll keep a lookout & let you know if I see anything that may be suitable if you want.

VFR 800 (pre V-tech) springs:
[Image: VFR800forksprings_zps2a257a34.jpg]

TRX850 spring & FZS Fazer spring:
[Image: TRX850ampFZS600springs_zps23b5b2ef.jpg]

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 14-10-13

Thanks Jeff, much appreciated. I think you're definitely on to something with the springs as most people are just swapping them out for Hagon stylee and claiming an improvement.


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - wezdavo - 14-10-13

Rob, You could raise the oil height to so your air gap is 120mm, this would help
I have wilbers springs and weigh 95kg and have 20mm of travel left after the hardest of riding...

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - Robbus - 17-10-13

Just bunged another 10mm in per your suggestion and cranked the preload in so only 1 line is showing. I'm treking over the 62 tonight so I'll see how I get on, still got the zip ties on the forks.


Cheers,
Rob

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - 69oldskool - 20-10-13

Shamed into finally starting project.

  & it's all gone a bit Pete Tong!
Pearls of wisdom greatfully received at this point.

4L of 15 grade fork oil procurred y'day~ that's all they had in town in desired viscosity.Doh!

Now i had said i was just bunging them in without drilling anything but i decided if the damper rods came out easy i'd drill, & if i didn't i'd go with original plan.

Damper rods freed up easy,old oil was still looking fresh,so far so good.

Now got 4 8mm holes in  each damper rods, erring on side of caution as easier to make a hole bigger than it is to make it smaller at later date. Wink

Now's about when it went pear shaped.

Factory manual states 200mm spacer length & 323mm spring length~ thats for 98 model.
My measurements, 183mm spacer & 316mm spring.
Nows the really odd bit, bunged damper rods back in,prior to reassembly proper & i've only got 100mm travel!!!!
Took apart a few times, consulted parts diag, not lost anything, not assembled wrong as far as i know(after 3rd time of trying)

Maybe modified by P.O. but what's changed i can't fathom.

Anyway i'm gona go with the 100mm travel or now, not much to play with so what measures do i take to avoid bottoming?
The gold valves add about 13mm height, thought i'd shorten the spacers by about 8mm to give me a little more preload to play with.
Maybe run the oil level a bit high also?

At this point i'm wishing i hadn't started, but only cos it seems i've got modded forks (or messed up bigtime somewhere) :o

Anyone got any ideas?





Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - wezdavo - 20-10-13

Your measurements are spot on for 2000 onward fazer... 183mm spacer, 316.8mm spring, so I would'nt worry.

How do you know you only have 100mm travel? I mean how did you measure this? If your trying with the main springs out you wont get a reliable reading as the top out springs need to be compressed also, whish is what happens when the main springs and end caps go on..

To confirm put a zip tie on the stanchion right above the dust cover and go for a hard ride, then lift the front end off the floor and re-measure to check how much travel is being used..

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - 69oldskool - 20-10-13

Cheers M8,
              If only i'd asked sooner! :lol

Yes, measuring travel without springs in, guess it all makes sense now, panic over.....nearly.

Got one stanchion jammed due to the multiple dismantling.
I've had to snap the oil seal out to work out what was (well & truly) jammed.

I now know what jams & why~,now freed up, just got to work out how i'm gona get the bush & oil seal back in without a suitable driver. :o

Re: Installation thread for Debrix fork cartridge emulators - Group buyers - kebab19 - 20-10-13

Wez is right,
There is a difference in component length between original 1998/99 forks and later 2000-2003 years.

The main question is: Did you have to put pressure down on the inner spacer to force the fork caps down & screw them back on? If you did, and you've checked component order 3 times, then I'd say you've reassembled it right  Smile

If you haven't modified them, run the bike on it's original spacer length but with minimal or near minimal preload - it will be firmer than it was. You could raise oil height but again, Wez is right, best to stick a cable tie round the fork & take her out for a quick spin. Don't go too mad (or too far) if you're worried about bottoming out, return to base & start measuring travel. Then report back