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+--- Thread: A fun ride... (/showthread.php?tid=56700)
Re: A fun ride... - devilsyam - 20-12-11
Hmmm think i mite add summat here as with every thing in life from other you learn either good or bad it's your choice
many many moons ago in the days of proddie racing i learned there are always better riders indeed many of them observed from the gravel trap
one has to decide weather tiz ave it or be at work on monday and not in the infirmary
as to Iam for my part having followed may fair share some have been absolutly frighting(max comes to mind) others like davidjw a pleasure to follow
take from it and learn wot ya want free world lol
Re: A fun ride... - Robbie8666 - 20-12-11
i just watched that video... yeah the rider is a plank!!
what i can imagine some of the views in their mirrors would have been like i shudder to think!
cant tell what speeds they were doing or what kind of bike it was though..
funny how we are all asuming it was a bloke!
Re: A fun ride... - Phil TK - 20-12-11
(20-12-11, 02:26 AM)Grahamm link Wrote: And some people want to tout the IAM as a bunch of over-weight pontificating beardies who clearly don't know anything about *real* riding and couldn't teach a London biker anything etc etc etc. :rolleyes
Oi, I never said anything about them being overweight.
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 21-12-11
(20-12-11, 08:28 AM)pitternator link Wrote: Read my post again...I advocate using track days as a vehicle to learn about how to ride fast , [...]
And yes, the IAM do not really teach how to ride fast .
No, because, as you agree, that's what the track is for!
Quote: Their real mantra is safety, not speed.Always within the limit....which dont really prepare you if you do want to use the power of ur machine...
What they always say is "You are responsible for your own riding decisions".
The IAM won't tell you to exceed the limit, because that's illegal and they can't advocate people breaking the law. But if you want to "use the power of ur machine", far better to do it knowing about good positioning and road discipline rather than just getting out there and chucking it down the road when it all goes pear-shaped.
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 21-12-11
(20-12-11, 02:28 PM)ghostbiker link Wrote: the basic tone of the thread once you get past the "iams are gods / iams are rubbish" crap is that most of us are in the i want to seek more knowlage type but are in the blinkered sub cat of but im picky where and who i learn it from
Well I never said they were "gods", but I agree with the "seek more knowledge" point.
There's nothing wrong with being picky about who you learn from (when I did my DAS I phoned around various places until I found someone who wanted to teach me to ride a motorcycle rather than pass a test) and whilst there may be people out there who think they're better/ faster/ cooler than an advanced rider, I'd take anything they say with a pinch of salt until I see some proof.
But the point is it boils down to two questions:
1) Is getting advanced training a good thing?
2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?
If the answer to both of these is "Yes", there's a problem.
Re: A fun ride... - Phil TK - 21-12-11
(21-12-11, 12:41 AM)Grahamm link Wrote: 2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?
No Graham, that's out of context, insert:- 'slagging off the IAM', nobody has slagged off advanced trainers in general on this thread, just the IAM.
And that's their problem, not other advanced trainers problem.
Re: A fun ride... - Robbie8666 - 21-12-11
1) Is getting advanced training a good thing?
2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?
If the answer to both of these is "Yes", there's a problem.
OK I am newly back on the road after a 10 year break. I was never a good rider just a commuter (10 miles round trip daily) with the occasional trip into Derbyshire for half a day so am finding my feet and would like to use my bike safer, especially as I intend to commute (64 miles daily) and use it to pop home to Cornwall at weekends 240 miles each way.
the question I have do I just ride it for a period of time and get used to enjoying my Fazer 600 or do I go straight in for an advanced riding course?
Re: A fun ride... - bigralphie - 21-12-11
Well depends ,if you need help with clutch ,gear change brakes etc I would just book a day or 2 with a training school .
Then go out and practice what you have learned and then seek advanced training as you will get more out of it (and won’t feel self conscience in front of other riders)
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 21-12-11
(21-12-11, 10:04 AM)Phil TK link Wrote: [quote author=Grahamm link=topic=1048.msg8098#msg8098 date=1324424477]
2) If you read others slagging off advanced trainers, might that put you off getting advanced training?
No Graham, that's out of context, insert:- 'slagging off the IAM', nobody has slagged off advanced trainers in general on this thread, just the IAM.[/quote]
Hmm: "It's the preaching aspect of it that puts me (and many others) off doing it, from RoSPA and the IAM both." - Aegis Bearing Mel.
Quote:And that's their problem, not other advanced trainers problem.
With respect, I think the problem is with those slagging them off. If someone doesn't like them or their methods or whatever, fine, that's up to them, but when someone starts posting inaccurate generalisations or thinking that because *they* don't like the IAM based on their personal perceptions (or should that be prejudices?) then the entire organisation should be disbanded, that's just getting ridiculous.
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 21-12-11
(21-12-11, 11:27 AM)Robbie8666 link Wrote: the question I have do I just ride it for a period of time and get used to enjoying my Fazer 600 or do I go straight in for an advanced riding course?
After a 10 year break I'd suggest getting some Refresher Training before going for advanced training, you'll probably need to get back into the feel of the bike, basic control, dealing with traffic etc.
Check around your local area for bike training schools and see what they have to offer.
Re: A fun ride... - Robbie8666 - 21-12-11
i've been back in the saddle since July so got the hang of bike controls etc. in fact rode it back from croydon to Portsmouth when i bought it & have done bout 2k miles on it so far. alsorts of journeys from the daily commute to basingstoke and a trip from Portsmouth to Redruth so not totally new. maybe i'll wait till warmer weather & see how i get on
Re: A fun ride... - Aegis Bearing Mel - 22-12-11
Don't reckon that was really slagging them off, more saying why many are put off by them.
I'll happy slate them for man, many things, but getting people to think about their riding isn't one of them.
Still not convinced that many that go through it do apply it as a tool to analyse their riding though, but that's a can of worms I'm happy to leave unopened.
However, I'd still rather give my local training school a few more sheckles for some advanced training, but that's my choice.
Firm believer in you pays yer money and all that...
Re: A fun ride... - Phil TK - 22-12-11
(21-12-11, 08:19 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: but when someone starts posting inaccurate generalisations or thinking that because *they* don't like the IAM based on their personal perceptions (or should that be prejudices?) then the entire organisation should be disbanded, that's just getting ridiculous.
It's not a personal perception or prejudice, it's a view based on why others slag them off. It's the word on the street mate and nothing to do with what I bloody think.
Disbanding them? well why not, they are not exactly a great success.
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 22-12-11
(21-12-11, 11:14 PM)Robbie8666 link Wrote: i've been back in the saddle since July so got the hang of bike controls etc. in fact rode it back from croydon to Portsmouth when i bought it
Ah, I didn't know you're local to me
Personally I'd recommend visiting the Solent Advanced Motorcyclists group at Sarisbury Green for one of their "SAM Sunday" events (starting again in March). You get a free Assessed Ride and then you can consider signing up for the IAM Skills for Life package.
Of course others on here may have their own opinions about doing this, it's your choice
Re: A fun ride... - Robbie8666 - 23-12-11
thanks for that Grahamm I will defo do that, even if just for the assesment.
yeah I got digs in Waterlooville during the week!
Re: A fun ride... - pitternator - 29-12-11
Grahamm/ABM
The whole ethos of the IAM ( and Roadcraft ) is that riding becomes a system based approach. It makes you analyse and plan all the time. I think its a great concept, and does work. What it does not do is teach machine control skills.This is IMO the " missing link" with simple IAM training. It creates in you the notion you are skilled, but in fact you may not be...especially if you start to push the envelope.IAM and Rospa all preach riding within the speed limit. The system does work at higher speed, but you dont get trained for it...hence even though one may pass the IAM, it is not a passport to being a fast rider.It means you have shown the ability to ride safely at speeds up to the limit.Its like passing your basic test without ever having driven on motorways!
Its why I push people to try trackdays, so you can push your own envelope in a higher degree of safety than on the road, learning about your bike and your own control skills. It dont change the system approach on the road though ...TBH once you start riding at high speed, its essential.
My other great concern, as already stated, is whether a new IAM passee can judge limits at high speed, and adopt restraint at the correct point ...since they have no experience of riding real roads at such speed. Developing this ability is down to ones own empirical approach and learning method. Yet the level of self confidance is that high ...it can blind you to your own needs.
There always is someone faster out there...its no shame to back off and go at your own pace.After all, you dont know whether that faster rider is skilled or is indeed outside their envelope and is moments from binning it.
On a completely lighter note.... was watching Top Gear in India last night ..and in the UK we may enjoy at least some degree of smugness over our road safety record....since in a single year over in curryland 196000 people are killed on the road !! FFS ! :eek ...makes awesome viewing seeing their roads...absolute bedlam! :lol
Re: A fun ride... - Phil TK - 29-12-11
(29-12-11, 10:16 AM)pitternator link Wrote: FFS ! :eek ...makes awesome viewing seeing their roads...absolute bedlam! :lol
Ahh, it reminded me of my ride through Vietnam, the main coast road that runs north/south is the same sort of mayhem day and night. One thing that is hard to get used to on these sort of roads is that oncoming traffic has priority over motorcycles when overtaking. Imagine, you successfully overtake a slow moving lorry and the lane ahead is clear for half a mile then suddenly it fills up with a long line of lorrys/buses coming straight at you at 60mph, all you can do is move right over to the kerb where you have a couple of feet of space as they thunder past. Now imagine that all day, every time your lane is empty ahead, then imagine pouring monsoon rain, visibilty 40m and dchickens/cows/dogs/rats running around the road. And finally, imagine no choice but dog liver curry for dinner at the end of the day (not kidding)
Intereastingly, a system based riding technique doesn't work in asia, each and every second needs an instinct based decision. If you ride over there for a period of time, you can ride anywhere.
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 29-12-11
(29-12-11, 10:16 AM)pitternator link Wrote: The whole ethos of the IAM ( and Roadcraft ) is that riding becomes a system based approach. It makes you analyse and plan all the time. I think its a great concept, and does work. What it does not do is teach machine control skills.
Yes, I agree with this, which was why I was glad when my Observer sent me a copy of Full Control which was something I'd been looking for since I started riding, ie a comprehensive and useful guide to how to actually *ride* the bike.
Quote:This is IMO the " missing link" with simple IAM training. It creates in you the notion you are skilled, but in fact you may not be...especially if you start to push the envelope.IAM and Rospa all preach riding within the speed limit.
As mentioned somewhere above, that is "preached" with a nod and a wink with comments like "when you're overtaking, you want to be looking at the road ahead, not down at the speedo", ie they can't *tell* you to exceed the limit, but if you want "make progress", provided you don't do it in an unsafe or inappropriate manner, you won't get told off for it.
Quote:Its like passing your basic test without ever having driven on motorways!
Which, of course, everyone does!
Quote:My other great concern, as already stated, is whether a new IAM passee can judge limits at high speed, and adopt restraint at the correct point ...since they have no experience of riding real roads at such speed. Developing this ability is down to ones own empirical approach and learning method. Yet the level of self confidance is that high ...it can blind you to your own needs.
Well "appropriate restraint" is one of the things that you're Observed on even before you take the test, plus you get to follow the Observer down various types of roads and watch how he rides them (just remember to ride your own ride otherwise you might end up in an embarrassing situation :o )
Quote:There always is someone faster out there...its no shame to back off and go at your own pace.After all, you dont know whether that faster rider is skilled or is indeed outside their envelope and is moments from binning it.
Sure, I don't disagree at all. On a ride out with the SAM group once, heading south on the A339 from Basingstoke, some Power Rangers came up behind us and proceeded to do stupid overtakes on blind bends, across double white lines etc. The consensus as we sat and chatted at the next break was "what a bunch of twunts!"
Nobody felt any inclination to try to emulate them.
Re: A fun ride... - Phil TK - 30-12-11
(29-12-11, 09:17 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: The consensus as we sat and chatted at the next break was "what a bunch of twunts!"
Nobody felt any inclination to try to emulate them.
What is this? So you need to be an IAM observer to know what bad riding looks like? Do you presume the rest of us don't know? It seems so, how patronizing can you IAM bigots get? And of course,the rest of the motorcycling fraternaty is not allowed to critisize the IAM are we?
Pease, please, please get it into your head Graham, nobody has an issue with advanced training, but a very large number of bikers old and new have issues with the IAM attitude to other bikers. What benefit is this to biking in general? -Answer -little.
And yes, it really is so bad that disbanding the whole organisation is a sensible option.
Start afresh.
Re: A fun ride... - Grahamm - 30-12-11
(30-12-11, 12:21 AM)Phil TK link Wrote: Yadda, yadda, yadda
:rolleyes
Fine, you don't like the IAM. I get that. I got that a long while ago in this thread, but you can't stop riding that hobby horse it seems and have to keep on telling people that you don't like the IAM just to make sure everyone knows it.
If you don't want to get IAM training, that's your choice, but if you "don't have a problem with advanced training" why do you persist in trying to put off anyone else who may be considering it with the IAM because of some perceived attitude from many years ago?
Quote:a very large number of bikers old and new have issues with the IAM attitude to other bikers.
Why do "new" bikers have "issues with the IAM attitude to other bikers"? Is it that they have actually experienced that "attitude" or is it just they've heard it on forums and in bike cafes from bikers who have big chips on their shoulders?
Is IAM training *so* bad that it is actually better for someone to get *no* advanced training rather than go with them? If so, you might have a point, but it isn't, so you don't.