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+--- Thread: BREXIT (/showthread.php?tid=80202)
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 30-11-18
Quote: Forecasts and predictions are for Remainers who have nothing better to do. Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.Leavers don't do forecasts and predictions because they believe 'getting back control' means we should all pay for it with more austerity.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nick crisp - 30-11-18
(30-11-18, 10:45 PM)mtread link Wrote: Leavers don't do forecasts and predictions because they believe 'getting back control' means we should all pay for it with more austerity.
(30-11-18, 01:36 PM)Hedgetrimmer link Wrote: Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 30-11-18
Quote:Quote from: mtread on Today at 09:45:12 PM<blockquote>
Leavers don't do forecasts and predictions because they believe 'getting back control' means we should all pay for it with more austerity.
</blockquote>
Quote from: Hedgetrimmer on Today at 12:36:36 PMLeavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.
Quote:Quote<blockquote>Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.</blockquote>
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 30-11-18
There is another factor that Minford ignores. Whilst he (wrongly LSE says) dismisses the importance of trading with your nearest partners, he ignores the increasing importance of trading with your nearest partners that an increasing awareness of global warming will bring.
Inevitably in the near future there will be a global move to reduce unnecessary transport and in particular the unnecessary transportation of goods.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 01-12-18
Anyway..... There won't be a 'No Deal Brexit'. From the end of March we'll remain aligned with the EU in some deal. Taking their instructions, paying our contribution. To borrow a phrase from elsewhere, 'You've lost, get over it' :lol
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 01-12-18
I just hope that, that deal is a temporary suspension of the march deadline. A suspension of the deadline that will allow for article 50 eventually to be revoked.
Do you really want to follow the best minority economic view of Professor Patrick Minford, who chairs and leads the Eurosceptic Economists for Free Trade who advocated a NO DEAL BEXIT;
Quote:Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.Do you feel like you'll be a winner in a NO DEAL BREXIT?
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 01-12-18
So you're better informed, more independant minded and a greater expert on these matters than this Minford bloke? :rolleyes .
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - nedworthy - 01-12-18
You can’t assume Minford is impartial, as. Prof of Economics it is more than likely he has a philosophical angle , just like Keynes did and most others do. So his independence , and therefore information should be viewed in that light.. You might also question his analysis in relation to where his research funding comes from - this is the BAT approach of giving researchers millions of pounds to ‘prove’ tobacco doesn’t cause cancer ?.
Never ever underestimate the Tory parties ability to connive, manipulate and cut deals to stay in power .
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 01-12-18
(01-12-18, 09:57 AM)nedworthy link Wrote: You can’t assume Minford is impartial....or that VNA is impartial.
(01-12-18, 09:57 AM)nedworthy link Wrote: Never ever underestimate the Tory parties ability to connive, manipulate and cut deals to stay in power .....or Corbyn's ability to do so in order to get in power.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 01-12-18
Quote:So you're better informed, more independant minded and a greater expert on these matters than this Minford bloke? [img alt=:rolleyes]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/img] .Ah I see nobody is allowed an opinion other than YamFazFan. :eek
There are fundamental areas where I disagree with Minford. For example why you would walk away from the EU single market (and it is a single market – it trades internally almost as one country) when it represents 25% of global GDP. The argument is you do so in order to make independent deals with the remaining 75% of GDP. But it’s spread across 168 countries right round the globe. That's a shit load of Bureaucracy.
Another fundamental disagreement I have is….. Well hopefully some day well get over BREXIT, because there is a far bigger global problem which makes squabbles over BREXIT seem somewhat insignificant, and that’s Global Warming. We need to reduce or cease unenvironmentally friendly global trade. For example, why is there New Zealand lamb in my supermarket, when sheep farming is a major industry in Scotland. Exporting our lamb whilst importing New Zealand lamb is environmentally stupid – it’s big CO2 emissions for no gain.
Finally even if Minford is right about the UK becoming richer in a NO DEAL scenario, he agrees with those of us who wish to protect our manufacturing jobs (say for example Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mini, Jaguar etc in the automotive industry) whom may walk in the event of a NO DEAL (remember they have had a personal reassurance from the PM that this will not happen). Minford states that UK manufacturing will be eliminated.
So you have to ask yourself, is a Minford NO DEAL BREXIT really what you want.
So tell me YamFazFan do you want to see UK manufacturing eliminated?
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 01-12-18
(01-12-18, 01:10 PM)VNA link Wrote:My apologies, I didn't realise it was just opinion and not fact. You sounded like you categorically knew better than himQuote:So you're better informed, more independant minded and a greater expert on these matters than this Minford bloke? [img alt=:rolleyes]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/img] .Ah I see nobody is allowed an opinion other than YamFazFan. :eek
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 01-12-18
We as ordinary punters read or listen to the experts then make up our minds. We make up our minds as to which expert makes the most sense.
From the London School of Economics - http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-britain-alone-scenario-how-economists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/#Author
Quote:Summing up
Alternative economic models have different advantages and drawbacks and are suited for different purposes. Unfortunately, Minford’s model is inconsistent with two basic facts about international trade: first, that trade satisfies the gravity equation; and second, that the EU has been trade-creating, not simply a tool for trade diversion.
This implies that the model will give very unreliable predictions of the consequences of Brexit for trade and living standards. When we analyse the same scenario considered by Minford using a more realistic assessment of how UK ‘unilateral trade liberalisation’ could actually work, we find (alongside just about everyone else) that Brexit still leads to a decline in UK living standards.
Minford’s ‘Liverpool model’ with its 1970s vintage of perfect markets everywhere has a bad track record when it comes to policy analysis. For example, in 1997 the model predicted that the proposed national minimum wage would mean millions more unemployed. Subsequent evaluations of the minimum wage have shown that the actual effect was rather less – zero, in fact (Metcalf, 2008).
Like the other 1970s hit, we Won’t Get Fooled Again.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 01-12-18
Remaining in the EU will kick the SNP and others call for a second Independence referendum into the long grass.
The Tories have been accusing Nicola Sturgeon of playing BREXIT for a second referendum.
Yet in the last week or so the SNP have come out and backed the so called ‘People’s Vote’.
So ask yourself why would they do this?
And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about;
Quote:Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.
So tell me YamFazFan do you want to see UK manufacturing eliminated?
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 01-12-18
(01-12-18, 02:24 PM)VNA link Wrote: And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about;I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.
Quote:Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 01-12-18
Keep thinking Mitford, as in the sisters :rolleyes
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - dazza - 01-12-18
It's not just Minford though is it.
Listen to Tim Martin and take a look what he's already done in his chain of Wetherspoons..
He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.
If we all made a conscious effort to boycott European goods, buy British where possible.
Be seen to putting public spaces and parts of gardens aside for allotment to grow our own it would send a clear message to the Facists they we are serious about BREXIT and preparing for a no deal.
That way we may get them back to the negotiating table.
It's called calling their bluff and preparing for every scenario.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpoliticaluk.co.uk%2F2018%2F11%2Fwhetherspoons-boss-wins-support-from-audience-as-he-lists-no-deal-brexit-benefits%2F&h=AT2qdkG5Ho0S9aISUQERw66HEbb84saWyRMp2Y5nMNdwol5vTx5Dm3iVWOIX2ajh6GIVTYXOSJ0JaelOMouwLdJM9mtpoLvfoNxqB9jwpMcapLtsXWnXnM8irj4&s=1
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 01-12-18
Quote: He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.No he hasn't and no they haven't. I think he's still selling some Guinness, and I wonder where that's brewed? He's replaced some beers and wines with inferior products :b
I'd check the term 'fascist' in the dictionary if I were you.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 01-12-18
Quote:Be seen to putting public spaces and parts of gardens aside for allotment to grow our own itAye sadly it could come to that.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 01-12-18
Quote:He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.So what do you think will happen to his prices when the pound is worth 80p to the dollar?
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 01-12-18
(01-12-18, 04:42 PM)VNA link Wrote: So what do you think will happen to his prices when the pound is worth 80p to the dollar?Lets see where you have the proof for that one then. - Or it it another remain goblin, to coin a phrase about unicorns thrown at leavers.