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Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point (/showthread.php?tid=70372)

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Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - noggythenog - 26-09-14

(26-09-14, 05:41 PM)tweetytek link Wrote: [quote author=noggythenog link=topic=14772.msg168139#msg168139 date=1411746900]
It never crossed my mind that this would need loosening.


Thank foc i never needed to adjust my chain thats all im saying.......even doing my bike lessons they did a quick run around on how to adjust a chain & there was never any mention of some bikes needing torque arm adjustments to do the chain......hardly user friendly is it
the practice is quite common mate,  jI've been doing it for years, but here is just a few links taken during 10 seconds of surfing ...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikechatforums.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D190435&ei=7ZUlVN-oErLB7AbgpoEo&usg=AFQjCNHm5YmHILeBks-2G5uVW9M6bVhDkg&bvm=bv.76247554,d.ZGU

http://yamahaclub.com/forums/topic/11628-slack-chain/

http:/ersionclub.proboards.com/thread/3814/removing-rear-wheel-swing-xj600

http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=49483.0

I could probably find 000s more but hey, the haynes manual doesnt mention it  :'( so maybe I'm gunna stop bothering and just do something more interesting
[/quote]


Granted...fair enough....but it isnt exactly intuitive i dont think........some of yous guys have vast experience of bikes so maybe you've learnt it but i still think it is one of those things that is a bit of a oh foc....real simple though....kebab seems to know his stuff and he still got cought out maybe.


Actually....question......i never needed to adjust my chain....if my torque arm was done up tighter than a nuns tights then was it taking the strain that my chain should have been taking and then would my torque arm have exploded........or would a chain still stretch anyway?

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - MC680x0 - 26-09-14

hope you're not including me in the "expert" assertion - I learn more than i give on here me thinks. For me , unfazed, midden, dudeness,  and darrsi seem to know quite  a bit

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - noggythenog - 26-09-14

(26-09-14, 05:53 PM)tweetytek link Wrote: hope you're not including me in the "expert" assertion - I learn more than i give on here me thinks. For me , unfazed, midden, dudeness,  and darrsi seem to know quite  a bit


Its purely hypothetical.


If the torque arm is too tight then does it therefore save the chain?


Im not saying that it is a good way to save a chain but more a way for me to get my head around the whole process of whats going on here with this problem.


I dont even have a 600 any more...well i do...but just a frame....to be fair that frame isnt causing me any issues :b

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - fazersharp - 26-09-14

Just read your links, and none of them are to do with FZS600 and they too are having the same debate, and also saying that their printed instructions do not say to loosen.
I don't understand why its being said here that you should and yet 2 different yam manuals and 1 haynes don't mention it.
And all those people who have adjusted the chain without loosening the arm --how come they could yet still adjust the chain.
I'm sure there is built in movement in the arm fixings 23NM and maybe kebabs problem is from over tightening them and removing any give it once had.


Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - MC680x0 - 26-09-14

(26-09-14, 06:14 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: Just read your links, and none of them are to do with FZS600 and they too are having the same debate, and also saying that their printed instructions do not say to loosen.
I don't understand why its being said here that you should and yet 2 different yam manuals and 1 haynes don't mention it.
And all those people who have adjusted the chain without loosening the arm --how come they could yet still adjust the chain.
I'm sure there is built in movement in the arm fixings 23NM and maybe kebabs problem is from over tightening them and removing any give it once had.
I didnt say they were all fizzies - I was making the point that its a general issue / practice for many people

Look, if you dont want to do it dont bloody do it - I dont care really to be honest what you do :rolleyes but glad to see your well and alive after the awful incident - keep it that way  Wink

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - fazersharp - 26-09-14

when you pull the wheel back the distance between the calliper torque arm point and the swing arm fixing point stays the same,the holes are round not elongated, what changes is the calliper rotation which is catered for by a greased pivot point at each end of the arm held inplace by a 23nm bolt that still allows for a pivot on calliper rotation when the wheel is pulled back.
That's how I am seeing it. 

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - fazersharp - 26-09-14

Just to add tweety I know that you have had a bad day, I don't want to wind you up or upset you in any way, I am not arguing with you as such just need to make sure its right.
One thing is though that it wont do any harm to loosen them BUT it will do great harm if you do not use a torque wrench and you end up over tightening them

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - darrsi - 26-09-14

(26-09-14, 05:53 PM)tweetytek link Wrote: hope you're not including me in the "expert" assertion - I learn more than i give on here me thinks. For me , unfazed, midden, dudeness,  and darrsi seem to know quite  a bit


I just do what unfazed, midden and his dudeness tell me to. :rollin

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - MC680x0 - 26-09-14

(26-09-14, 06:43 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: Just to add tweety I know that you have had a bad day, I don't want to wind you up or upset you in any way, I am not arguing with you as such just need to make sure its right.
One thing is though that it wont do any harm to loosen them BUT it will do great harm if you do not use a torque wrench and you end up over tightening them
No harm intended. I've had a good day actually, and going to have a better nite. Don't take me too seriously as im not touchy feely, cuddling and caring...I won't hold your hand... Just the way I am, but it's not anger or frustration or ridicule ... Chill  Wink

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - kebab19 - 26-09-14

Wow, this one has run for a bit while I've been away Smile
The swingarm wasn't powdercoated black, just sprayed by the previous owner judging by the way paint was coming off it.  The replacement torque arm was in place when I bought the bike.
It's true, I hadn't adjusted the torque arm to compensate and paid a (relatively small) price for the mistake :o .
I have now replaced the swingarm, chain adjusters and brake line. There is a small nick /gouge in the caliper but not too deep.
Whilst I am still a fan of replacement rear calipers, I think I'll go back to a standard torque arm.  I'm not sure if it's a different length as I don't have one for direct comparison.
Still, hopefully my misfortune has provided some useful information.

Must post another shot of the damage now I have the old swingarm off... 

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - unfazed - 26-09-14

See my comment http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,14772.msg168096.html#msg168096

I slacken the bolts and torque them to 23Nm out of habit, however 23 Nm is not tight enough to lock the torque arm solid and it will move without damaging the arm, or pivots, but as I said previously:
Everybody knows the rule "if in doubt swing out of it"  [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img] [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img] [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img]

There have been many occasions when adjusting the chains for others I have had difficulty in opening the bolts on the torque arm because of the "if in doubt swing out of it"

For the above reason I tell people to slacken off the pivot bolts and tighten them when finished adjusting the chain, and not to over tighten them afterwards, this prevents the "if in doubt swing out of it" causing problems. [img alt=:eek]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/img]





Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - Paulfzs - 17-10-14

maybe this might help


£9 plus £7,99 p+p! cant go wrong



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-Fazer-FZS-600-Rear-Swingarm-Swinging-Arm-/231297175809?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35da62d101





Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - midden - 17-10-14

(26-09-14, 11:25 AM)unfazed link Wrote:[quote author=tweetytek link=topic=14772.msg168091#msg168091 date=1411724429]
[quote author=midden link=topic=14772.msg168065#msg168065 date=1411689241]
I would actually question the need to tighten the torque arm to the extent it wouldn't adjust with the caliper bracket rotation when moving the wheel back or forward.  Afterall as already mentioned the bar is only to stop the caliper bracket from spinning. Obviously not too loose, just enough that with a bit of effort it can be lifted and lowered.
agreed! who said to tighten it like that anyway? that sounds - to me - what caused the problem in the first place

[/quote]

Because everybody knows the rule "if in doubt swing out of it"  :lol :lol :lol

How many do you know who do their own maintenance actually own a Torque Wrench?  :eek :eek :eek
[/quote]
I have one  :b

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - midden - 17-10-14

(26-09-14, 04:04 PM)tweetytek link Wrote:Yes but you are quoting a yamaha SHOP manual . it assumes a working level competence within the shop bay at the DEALER garage. All staff undergo general yamaha centric DEALER/franchise training and this sort of document is merely a guide for THE SPECIFIC BIKE MODEL.
so does instruction number 4 require a higher level of competence than that normally presumed of a shop bay dealer garage mechanic then  Wink


It says:  4. Loosen wheel axle nut

Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - RMT1983 - 24-11-14

(26-09-14, 03:28 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: No where does it say that you need to loosen the arm bolts when adj the chain slack, I have the origional owners manual and here is the online service guide that I downloaded from this forum



Re: Swingarm failure - torque arm mounting point - RMT1983 - 24-11-14

(24-11-14, 01:59 AM)RMT1983 link Wrote: [quote author=fazersharp link=topic=14772.msg168122#msg168122 date=1411741701]
No where does it say that you need to loosen the arm bolts when adj the chain slack, I have the origional owners manual and here is the online service guide that I downloaded from this forum
[/quote]

Why cant I delete my reply, I feel stupid now!!! haha