+- Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb)
+-- Forum: General (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=65)
+--- Forum: General (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=69)
+--- Thread: advice on crash responsibility (/showthread.php?tid=67135)
Re: advice on crash responsibility - fazersharp - 02-02-14
Ok on reading more advice and thinking a little more about this I think my "take the 50/50" was wrong
I think Nick Chrisp put it well
Quote:Could not the fact that the car (which did not have right of way) hit you, who was on the main road; could it not be argued that it was NOT, in fact, clear for him to pull out, and therefore the fault lies with him? Whether or not YOU stopped seems to me to be immaterial in this case.
But what I do pick up from this is that I think you would of been better off with a specialist bike insurer/ broker as you said yours just dont understand how a bike uses the road. Its like they carnt be arsed with it and just want to move on. I use a dedicated bike broker who (they say ) is run by bikers for bikers.
Also could this be moved into the Off thread as I think its a perfect one to go there as we are all learning from this
Re: advice on crash responsibility - snapper - 02-02-14
I have to say legalities aside I am amazed and discusted ! 50/50 Bo77occks ! surely this has to be a full faulty to the car driver ! he has pulled out onto a main road with out checking its clear to do so ! whether you hit them or they hit you is imaterial !
I do feel this is a case for the ombudsmon !
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 02-02-14
(02-02-14, 01:01 PM)snapper link Wrote: I have to say legalities aside I am amazed and discusted ! 50/50 Bo77occks ! surely this has to be a full faulty to the car driver !The last person I spoke to at my own insurance company told me I was the person at fault! Citing Powell Vs Moody
Tomorrow I'm going to ask for a copy of what they have submitted and then speak to a solicitor.
What's really got me is that I spotted a pub near the corner had a CCTV camera so I popped in. The landlady had seen us parked up but thinks the tapes will have been wiped by now
I'm kicking myself for not checking sooner.I was hoping I had a witness but all she saw was the lady "helping" me. No she was the person that drove in to me. Her partner said it was damaged on the bumper at the right hand side. It's a 3 series BMW and I've been told they can be quite expensive.
Edit: I spoke to another person at my insurance company today. The rather wonderful lady was friendly, understood that filtering is legal and thought that I was doing it in a safe manor. She agreed that the damage to my bike was inconsistent with what the 3rd party had told me on the phone and is getting a copy of their form in the hope that it shows they're lying with regard to the damage, she thought regardless that it should be 100% car driver paying up but didn't try to give me fault hope. I took her name so that I can ask for her in future discussions with them.
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Grandma - 03-02-14
Ask your solicitors to look @ David v Strogin which sets a precedent. I had a similar incident on M25 had been filtering as four lanes at a standstill, stopped for a breather in gap in lane 4 when Galaxy in lane 3 goes for same gap without checking mirrors nearly knocking me into Amoco. Luckily car behind me was a biker and was my witness as cheeky blighted when he got home & had time to think about it said I rode into him! He backed down week before court case. Lesson learned, call Police out if possible or take photos on your phone. I did win & received damages but it took 2 years & a lot of blood sweat & tears
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 03-02-14
(03-02-14, 11:08 PM)Grandma link Wrote: Ask your solicitors to look @ David v Strogin which sets a precedent.I had a long chat with a lady before and suggested that one. I got the feeling she wasn't a fan of bikes as from the outset she said it was my fault.
I'm getting the official account posted to me so that I know what their story is as it's already different from what her partner told me on the phone. (I wasn't impressed she got her partner to phone me back to avoid talking to me). I'm feeling much better now I don't have an anti bike person dealing with my side of things who understood what I was saying and cared.
Re: advice on crash responsibility - richfzs - 03-02-14
I'll get you some case history that may/will be relavent. Guy I work with, was coming out of work (so he was the offending car, turning right same your woman) and hit a car that was coming down across a hatched area (with dotted borders) to turn right at a cross roads just to the left of the junction. Car he hit, was effectively you (in your accident). Pretty sure that all went on his insurance.
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 04-02-14
Thanks, I think they will argue it's different since they saw a space
Most case law seems to say the bike should be aware of gaps and be prepared to stop. I'm hoping she told the insurance she came to a full stop. If I was moving and she wasn't then my wheel would have twisted the other way and the disc wouldn't get caught on anything. If that's what she's put I'll push for 100%
I'm not really sure if the damage could be at the right hand side of her car and the left side of my bike if I was moving. I'm also thinking of suggesting that had I been moving I wouldn't have just been able to put my foot down.
Re: advice on crash responsibility - richfzs - 04-02-14
There was a load of stationary traffic that Paul was coming out, through a gap, in his case as well. The car he hit, was passing the stationary traffic.
Sounds nigh on identical to me, replace the hatchings with your zigzags.
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 04-02-14
Now that is promising, especially as I hadn't got to the zig zag lines at the point of impact!
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 10-02-14
I have got an email detailing the account of the car driver
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]Third party version of events:[/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]-[/color] Third party was pulling out of a minor road as vehicles had to stopped to allow them out of the junction when a motorcycle (policy holder) proceeded to overtake the stopped vehicles and collided with third party emerging from the junction.[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]Third party area of damage:[/color]- Off side front bumper[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]Third Party damage claim costs[/color]- Total costs of third party claim : £644.42[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]I hope this covers all your requests and enought information has been provided. If your have any further questions or queries or wish to discuss this claim further please call 0844 856 8001 where me or any of my colleagues will be happy to help.[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]So my question is take the 50/50 or peruse it as the damage is to the left side of bike (i.e. the brake disc) which I don't think is consistent with their version of events. [/color]
As the damage to the bike will be cheap to repair if I do it myself if I get a shift in my favor I may just pay for my portion of the damage to keep no claims (about £100 for the next quote on the fazer, not sure about the effect on the SR)
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Grandma - 10-02-14
If that is accurate sounds like a 50/50. However, as you were on the main road, surely the onus is on the driver pulling out from the minor road to check that it is safe to do so. The fact that other vehicles had stopped to allow him to pull out is imho [color=rgb(0, 0, 255)][/size]irrelevant[/color][/size], that is a courtesy gesture, it is still his responsibility that it is safe to do so,, and it clearly wasn't!
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 10-02-14
I had a brief chat with a solicitor. In short they said as the claim isn't for injuries it wouldn't be cost effective to use them but did say something similar
A. The drivers version of events doesn't seem as credible due to the damage
B. I didn't fall off which supports me either not moving or at least moving very slowly
C. There should be a greater responsability on the car driver to ensure that the main road is clear of other traffic then there is for a vehicle on the main road to allow for traffic crossing give way lines.
They did say it was unlikely I'd get 100% but I wonder if I can swing this a bit more in my favour
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Grandma - 11-02-14
(10-02-14, 07:16 PM)AndyL link Wrote: I had a brief chat with a solicitor. In short they said as the claim isn't for injuries it wouldn't be cost effective to use them but did say something similarHope so, worth fighting for, as we tend to be treated as the underdogs, game of bluff and counter bluff, trying to persuade you to back off.
A. The drivers version of events doesn't seem as credible due to the damage
B. I didn't fall off which supports me either not moving or at least moving very slowly
C. There should be a greater responsability on the car driver to ensure that the main road is clear of other traffic then there is for a vehicle on the main road to allow for traffic crossing give way lines.
They did say it was unlikely I'd get 100% but I wonder if I can swing this a bit more in my favour
[/size][/color]Over the years have battled on through a few claims when I have been knocked off and always won through, though sometimes it felt as if I was battering my head against a brick wall! :wall
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 11-02-14
Further phone call with my insurance company and I'm feeling more hopeful.
From their last email to me
"[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)]Having had time to review all the relevant information to hand. I have come to the decision that we will continue to push for the full 100% liability."[/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size][/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size]"[/color][color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size]more and more claims are settling in the favour of the filtering motorcycle and I feel we have a good case to continue with our stance that the emerging third party vehicle has a higher degree of care"[/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size][/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size]I'm sticking to my argument that if I hit them[/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size]A. I wouldn't have stayed on the bike[/color]
[color=rgb(34, 34, 34)][/size]B. The damage wouldn't be to my brake disc[/color]
Re: advice on crash responsibility - snapper - 11-02-14
looks like good news ! if it does go 100% in your favour , make sure you get a letter stating full cost regained from third party
I beleive ( please check) your insurers cant then load your policy as long as they get 100% of the costs back as it is the equivilaint of not cliaming !
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Punkstig - 11-02-14
Something like this you gotta step back and think 'what if this happened to a cyclist, would it unquestionably be the car drivers fault or would they point blame to the cyclist!?'
So why think differently about a motorbike???
Re: advice on crash responsibility - AndyL - 11-02-14
(11-02-14, 09:08 PM)Punkstig link Wrote:Something like this you gotta step back and think 'what if this happened to a cyclist, would it unquestionably be the car drivers fault or would they point blame to the cyclist!?'I think the comp claim for personal injuries would but as you don't have an insurance company (normally) few people would persue the claim in court for what is really fairly minor damage.
So why think differently about a motorbike???
When I got knocked of my push bike the driver drove off when I asked for their insurance details
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Punkstig - 11-02-14
(11-02-14, 09:37 PM)AndyL link Wrote:[quote author=Punkstig link=topic=11525.msg126332#msg126332 date=1392149293]When I got knocked of my push bike the driver drove off when I asked for their insurance details
Something like this you gotta step back and think 'what if this happened to a cyclist, would it unquestionably be the car drivers fault or would they point blame to the cyclist!?'
So why think differently about a motorbike???
[/quote]
I hope you was able to get the license!
My point is if a cyclist was sensibly either filtering on the inside of traffic or to the right of traffic (which they do) and a car pulled out in the same circumstances I doubt it would be questioned and blame would be pushed into the car driver for not looking properly, change the cyclist for a motorbike and all of a sudden we're expected to accept part of the blame for others poor use of observation!
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Grahamm - 12-02-14
Good news! I hope you get 100% :thumbup
Re: advice on crash responsibility - Grandma - 13-02-14
(12-02-14, 01:18 AM)Grahamm link Wrote:Good news! I hope you get 100% :thumbupKeep pushing for it!
[/size][/color]well done, bit of a roller coaster of emotions but worth it