Wot a pillock (me) - Printable Version

Wot a pillock (me) - Printable Version

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Re: Wot a pillock (me) - wezdavo - 07-04-13

(07-04-13, 02:51 PM)caretaker link Wrote: stick to your own pace, dont ride with anyone else and stay off the back brake! i only use the front brake, bad habit i know. but using the back on a bend is asking for trouble. after i passes my test centuries ago, i only used the back. gradually, and like yourself, several offs, i realised that i should start using mainly the front. still had a few offs since though, so youre in good company.

Why do you say this bud?

On the approach to a corner I use BOTH brakes, I DONT USE ANY BRAKES ONCE CORNERING but if I had to, it would be gently with the back brake as it overloads the front tyre less...

Infact once cornering the front tyre is heavily loaded already and using the front brake on top of this is very bad advice mate..

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - noggythenog - 07-04-13

I admire packies honesty, perhaps not what you,me or anyone wants to read but still very honest & the other half of the tale none the less. :evil :evil :evil Wink

It's a hot topic this one and theres no doubt lots on here that can learn from it as we learn from our own & others mistakes.
Not that 2 wrongs make a right but regards the whole death thing, it is still a risk we take every day in our supposedly safe cars, bikes are deemed dangerous & yes they are less forgiving but im sure theres lots of cases where a bike has escaped from a near miss by virtue of its small size or nimble handling where a car would have crashed.Actually theres numerous thousands of folk out there driving cars every day that probably shouldnt be.Folk that would never dream of further training & arent remotely interested in skills,techniques or safety.you have completed extra training by doing your bike test which is very thorough & you've been deemed passworthy by by a biker.Granted that's only the beggining but you seem keen to progress & you at least admit failings that lots of others keep to themselves whilst pretending they know what they're doing.
If you did your test recently then you did extensive slow speed stuff,slaloms,figure of eights, the swerve test etc, you may not be as good as some seasoned bikers at cornering but you may be far better at slow speed control that they have rarely if ever formally practiced.Still all ifs buts and maybes but im keeping positive & keeping that glass half full whilst you get over the crash. Smile

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - richfzs - 07-04-13

(07-04-13, 03:18 PM)wezdavo link Wrote: [quote author=caretaker link=topic=7127.msg67944#msg67944 date=1365342719]
stick to your own pace, dont ride with anyone else and stay off the back brake! i only use the front brake, bad habit i know. but using the back on a bend is asking for trouble. after i passes my test centuries ago, i only used the back. gradually, and like yourself, several offs, i realised that i should start using mainly the front. still had a few offs since though, so youre in good company.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Jezzer - 07-04-13

Glad your ok, know how you feel with being nervous, had a couple of near misses myself last year in my first full year on a bike. Thing that came to mind reading you post was slow down and take your time. Approach and plan each bend every time, better slow in and accelerate out rather than fast in and fall off.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - His Dudeness - 07-04-13

Seems like you have the right attitude with regards to doing the training and learning from your accident Simon so keep the head up. Most people will come off at some stage and everyone has had a moment where the survival instints have taken over so don't beat yourself up about it too much. Training and experience helps to keep you calm when things go wrong so do the training and maybe a track day and that will help you control those survival instincts better. Riding on the road is mostly about getting back in one piece rather than pushing your limits or going quick so maybe you need to change your riding style a bit. I've heard a lot of track riders don't ride on the road because they consider it too dangerous. Look at Lorenzo, he only got his road license last year I think.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Lorenzo%20prepares%20for%20bike%20license%20test

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - slimwilly - 07-04-13

Glad you are ok,,

slow in ,maybe down a gear or two, power on in the corner, full power on the exit,,corners are best if powered out of.
Billy

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - caretaker - 07-04-13

i admit it is bad advice to use any brakes on a bend, but i get everything done before cornering which is wot i should have said! i do go through a lot of front brake discs though!!

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Yamazer-92 - 07-04-13

Glad you're okay Simon, hope the bike gets better soon too. I ride almost every day in all but ice and have yet to have my first proper off and dread the thought to be honest but try my best to not let it affect how I ride. You mentioned that you're doing a bikesafe course, I did one last year with my dad and thought it was excellent so that's a good place to start building your confidence back up.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - packie - 08-04-13

(07-04-13, 03:51 PM)noggythenog link Wrote: I admire packies honesty, perhaps not what you,me or anyone wants to read but still very honest & the other half of the tale none the less. :evil :evil :evil

...and that's all I was offering, just a bit of honesty and just to make people aware including Simon that there is more to this than the importance of him just trying to ride a bike.

This might again sound harsh, but I just don't "buy it" that the guy is blaming his experiences on being a newbie. Weather I am driving 5 minutes as a newbie or 50 years as an experienced driver, it is my responsibility not just morally but by law to be competent, confident, and in control of my machine at all times on the road. This is not just about my own safety. This is also about expressing my safety towards you and every other road users and pedestrians. If my bike went out of control and mowed down a toddler on that corner, I don't think a "newbie excuse" will have much comfort to his parents or my conscience....nor will it hold up in court of law. This is the reality.

So it is my responsibility at the very first sign of problems "within me" to haul my arse off the road weather I am a newbie or an experienced driver. If I feel that i'm going to be a danger to myself or others, I need to get off the road and do what I need to do to sort out those problems. Personally, I think Simon had 2 spills too many. This wasn't 2 spills brought on by other factors out of his control, this was 2 spills brought on by not being in control of his vehicle on both occasions by not being properly ready for being on the road. Pride, stubborness and persistence may be seen as good traits by some...but actually could be quite a dangerous liability IMO.

Anyway, I certainly wasn't telling Simon or anyone here what to do about his situation or to walk away from biking. I made that quite clear in my post. I was just sharing my experiences and opinions. If people don't like them, then they have the free will to ignore them.

But I have to thank Simon too for his honesty in posting here because it wasn't easy. A lot of good things have come from this thread. There has been some serious helpful and informative stuff on this thread like the two videos that were posted which will help many including myself. I like to think that I have contributed with some informative and honest stuff to this thread too. So this thread has been very worth while overall.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - mtread - 08-04-13

Hi Simon, glad you're OK, we've all been there :fish
Soft back braking is fine for bends, it can take the edge off the speed if you realise you are in too fast, but the emphasis is on soft. I've been doing it for 40 years Big Grin

But don't panic and don't get anywhere near locking the rear wheel. Softly softly.
Front braking is bad for bends. you will pogo through it, and the bike will try to stand upright, cancelling out your lean.
Looking at the picture though begs another question. What gear where you in? Too high a gear and you have no engine braking to play with. In a lower gear, if you feel you are entering the bend too fast you can roll back the throttle and the bike will slow itself down, saving the need for any braking at all. Too high a gear and the bike will just carry on at its own momentum, so braking (or just pointing and hoping) are you only options.
That looks like a 3rd or 4th gear bend to me, 6th is not the only option Smile

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - simonm - 08-04-13

I'm sure it's down to experience. Lack thereof. The problem is that now I've had two tumbles my confidence is kinda shot. I'll do loads of sharp bends and stuff perfectly happy then I'll get to a corner, even at low speed, and just freak that there is some gravel or grit there. In the time it takes for me to get my composure back it's too late. It is, to me, important to note that both of my tumbles have been at low speed, we're talking 5-10 mph so hopefully some expert tuition will help me to handle these things.

I know people are trying to help but I need biking. My life is low, I'm depressed, riding makes me happy. With a 3 year old boy and a 3 week old boy I need to make sure that I practise on a track or something to rebuild my confidence but safely. Expert tuition may be an answer but I don't like the idea of learning on the road (although I know that is where most of the learning comes from)

I don't ride like a madman, I am generally safe, considerate and have foresight, forward thinking etc. I just don't have the experience or confidence imo.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - His Dudeness - 08-04-13

Here's an idea. If it's gravel that you're worried about why not buy a cheap scrambler or rent one and do a bit of off road training. You'd get a feel for the bike sliding around under you

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Dead Eye - 08-04-13

If you are having issues with slow corners then I would suggest that track riding may not be of much help in regard to this - don't get me wrong, I'm sure track days are awesome and you'd really enjoy it and learn a lot, but probably nothing towards going slow.

My advice would be to take your bike to the local supermarket car park when no-one is around and start doing chicanes and loops around the lamp posts at low speed to get a feel for the bikes balance at low speed. Someone did mention Twist Of The Wrist II as well which has a huge amount of information and is aimed at being a "Cornering Bible". Not all of it is relevant - the latter half is more about track riding in my opinion. But the information about breaking around corners, throttle control and counter-steering were hugely helpful for me to understand the forces at play and how to control my bike. Remembering how to counter-steer properly whilst going a little too fast in a corner has helped me on several occasions Smile

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Yamazer-92 - 08-04-13

I agree with his dudeness, I started on a chinese supermoto bike with crappy nylon tyres and it used to slide about like a bastard if I wasn't careful especially as the brakes were quite good in comparison to the tyres. It was actually quite manageable though I even had a real nasty one on ice once and christ knows how but I saved it. Granted it was half the weight of the fazer but as I have said in another thread one of my forks is knackered and I feel the back end slide in corners on occasion as a result, it gives you the willies but I am used to a bit of slide in corners so have faith in the tyres which are excellent on this bike. As someone has stated though, everybody has different levels of feel for vehicles but still having some past experience with small slides can be helpful. Tensing up like you describe is NOT a good idea. Is the fazer your first bike?

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - clayt74 - 08-04-13

I do sympathise with you, I dropped mine a few weeks ago. Purely my fault. Had to change line whilst braking and lost the front on a wet drain cover. Thankfully crash bung took the worst but wrecked the nose cone.
I got away with badly sprained wrist and badly bruised knee.
The important thing is to know what you did wrong but also to know what you should have done.
Then armed with that info you can practice better techniques.
When I did my test I only had half day with instructor on the way to the test.after a while of him following me he kept telling me I was rushing things and trying to do too much at once? Looking, ,gear change, braking.
I didn't get what he meant until he made me follow him. And I realised how much in advance you can actually anticipate and react accordingly. The outcome is that you are already doing the right thing in the right place.
I dont think you need a mass of tuition but maybe half day following and then assessed by a instructor.
Good luck getting back in the saddle.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Grahamm - 09-04-13

Sorry to hear about your off Sad

There's some very good advice about cornering and bike control in this document as well as some very helpful exercises to practice your manoeuvring.

After something like this your confidence is going to take a knock, but as long as you learn what you did wrong, you can apply that to your riding in the future and you'll be all the better for it. Just recently I was taking a street corner near where I live and remembered that when I started riding I used to have all sorts of problems getting a smooth turn around it, but now I cruised around it with nary a worry, so just keep practicing, stay in your comfort zone until you feel confident and you'll soon be out there having fun again Smile

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - simonm - 09-04-13

The last few answers have really helped me. Thanks for the input.

The fazer is my first bike. I understand it's quite heavy and powerful as a first bike but it did seem like a good choice and I still don't regret it. I have clocked up 700 miles or so since I passed my test in Jan but I definitely need to do some low speed. Manoeuvring in a car park, read up on cornering, watch twist of the wrist all the way through and get some pro guidance too.

Thanks lads Big Grin

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - noggythenog - 09-04-13

(09-04-13, 02:43 AM)simonm link Wrote: The last few answers have really helped me. Thanks for the input.

The fazer is my first bike. I understand it's quite heavy and powerful as a first bike but it did seem like a good choice and I still don't regret it. I have clocked up 700 miles or so since I passed my test in Jan but I definitely need to do some low speed. Manoeuvring in a car park, read up on cornering, watch twist of the wrist all the way through and get some pro guidance too.

Thanks lads

Glad you're smiling simon,
out of curiosity, if you passed in Jan then did you do the Mod1/Mod 2, how did you get on with all the slow stuff?, i mean you passed it, figure of 8,swerve test, u turn etc.did you find it easy in the end? if so then maybe you could approach the same school,(or a different one) to ask if you can spend half a day with them on your Fazer to alleviate a few of your fears, heck leave the fairing all busted up & stuff so you're not worrying about a slow speed spill too much in that controlled environment or damaging a bike thats only just been repaired.
I still practice the odd u turns without putting my feet down even though its easy to get lazy & not bother & i quite fancy going somewhere to do like a mini obstacle course just for fun really & learn the Fazers characteristics

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Adrian6171 - 09-04-13

First off simonm i,m very glad your o.k,came off my bike 4 weeks ago,wrote the bike off and broken collar bone,but it,s not put me off (already got me new bike ready for me ).I have seen a lot of people saying watch twist of the wrist,now yes it is a very good video to watch but i think as a newish rider if you do watch that video your head would just have to much info there to even go round a corner.I mean yes we all know about counter steering we,ve done it since riding a push bike but doing 30mph round a bend while thinking what Code explained would be just too much.Do it at your own pace and if that means slowing the cagers down a tad while going round a corner then sod them.And yes i watched twist of the wrist,next day came up to the first roundabout thinking what he had explained and nearly came to a stop Smile

.
Everyone at their own pace.

Re: Wot a pillock (me) - Dead Eye - 10-04-13

Best advice I can offer is to focus on only one or two key aspects of Twist of the Wrist at a time. Learn how to counter-steer properly and how to manage your throttle (steadily roll it on throughout the entirety of the bend). These two are relatively easy to remember and work on and are likely to offer the best improvements initially Smile

As I mentioned before, a lot of the second half of the video is more for track riding imo where you want to start shaving tenths of a second off your lap times.

I need to work on my slow speed manoeuvring as I lost my damn balance on Sunday trying to do a U-turn and dropped the bike Sad

Mind you, I think it was probably an absolutely hilarious spectacle to watch when it happened and luckily the only new damage was a few minor marks on the link pipe. The fairings were already cracked from the previous owners... still, my pride was hurt as this was my first drop in the 18 months since I passed Sad

I still blame the freezing cold making my feet numb though haha