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+--- Forum: FZS600 Fazer (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=78)
+--- Thread: Rough warm up? (/showthread.php?tid=62200)
Re: Rough warm up? - His Dudeness - 05-03-13
Only joking with you darrsi! :lol
Re: Rough warm up? - unfazed - 05-03-13
Drain the float bowls and let it run through for about 30 secs. Yo could have water in the float bowls.
Re: Rough warm up? - richfzs - 05-03-13
worth trying I guess - but if its running fine once warmed up, I don't think that's the problem? It wouldn't go away as the bike warmed up?
Re: Rough warm up? - darrsi - 05-03-13
(05-03-13, 08:21 PM)unfazed link Wrote: Drain the float bowls and let it run through for about 30 secs. Yo could have water in the float bowls.
Water from where, you mean in the fuel?
I've never touched the carbs before to be honest, it's just one of those things i know i'll mess up and as the bike is my only transport i really can't be doing with that!
I s'pose i could add some alcohol to the tank, that'll burn off any moisture in the fuel. :b
Re: Rough warm up? - richfzs - 05-03-13
Darrsi, at the bottom of each float bowl there's a wee drain screw. Picture 7.12 in the Haynes manual. Open each one in turn, don't worry, you can't foc up the carbon setting with this (unless you get the wrong screw :lol) and the picture is pretty clear.
As I say, not convinced it's the problem tho... Is it idling properly once warm?
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Re: Rough warm up? - darrsi - 05-03-13
(05-03-13, 09:58 PM)richfzs link Wrote: Darrsi, at the bottom of each float bowl there's a wee drain screw. Picture 7.12 in the Haynes manual. Open each one in turn, don't worry, you can't foc up the carbon setting with this (unless you get the wrong screw :lol ) and the picture is pretty clear.
As I say, not convinced it's the problem tho... Is it idling properly once warm?
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
Yeah, very stable, it's always been good on this bike.
Re: Rough warm up? - simonm - 05-03-13
attention: complete novice talking about stuff he knows nothing about
It might be worth checking all the hoses and rubbers for perishing/cracks/leaks too. Just looking at this post here http://yamahaclub.com/forums/topic/8243-yamaha-600-fazer/ which has no relevance but has a couple of ideas in it.
I'm just trying to think of things that would spontaneously happen through age/wear since nothing on the bike has changed recently.
I'm assuming the bike is garaged or is it stored outside ?
Simon
Re: Rough warm up? - darrsi - 05-03-13
Garaged at night.
If the weather's bad when i'm at work i have a place to shelter it, mainly in heavy rain, but i generally park outside reception which strangely enough keeps it in the shade for the whole day in summer, which is handy as well.
It's not an air leak as my idle would be ropey and acceleration would hesitate and splutter.
Re: Rough warm up? - unfazed - 05-03-13
When the bike is standing overnight any water in the petrol will sink to the bottom of the float bowls and when it is running for a while moves around due to the flow of petrol through the carbs, thus giving the indication of a starting problem like Darrsi describes. I am not saying it is the problem but by draining the bowls it rules out one possible cause of the problem.
The water can also lodge in the fuel filter since the filter lies on its side it holds it. I have changed many a fuel filter and usually drain it out of curiosity into a glass and have seen the water converge at the bottom overnight, especially prone on bikes which are used in all weathers and power hosed. Last Saturday I serviced my own 600 and 1000 and the 600 had water in the filter and the 1000 had water in the bowls and filters. The 1000 was awkward to start and would not pick up cleanly on the choke for the first 30 seconds or so, but was also misfiring at 11500 revs. Draining the bowls and changing the filter solved both problems.
I usually drain my tanks completely every 2 years to remove any water which may lodge in the bottom of the tank, which is where most tanks start to rust.
One of the first things I do when I get any bike with a starting or rough running issue is drain the carbs and leave the fuel run through for 20 -30 seconds. You would be amazed of how many it fixes
Darrsi, when draining the bowls just make sure you have the correct size head on the screwdriver for the drain screws and do not remove them completely or overtighten them. It will not effect anything else on the carbs, just cost you about a 50p worth of fuel.
Re: Rough warm up? - darrsi - 05-03-13
Okay, thanks very much for that info, that's very informative for me, although i probably won't be able to play about with it until Saturday morning now so bear with me.
I'm presuming petrol would float on water, so water should flow out first if the drainage screws are at the lowest point?
Also, you say don't take the screws right out, how do they drain with the screws still in then?
Excuse my ignorance, but me and the carbs have never met yet.
Re: Rough warm up? - richfzs - 05-03-13
Cheers unfazed, interesting stuff.
Darrsi, loosening the screw is like opening a valve, and the fuel drain out a different hole, not the hole the screw itself turns through. Difficult to explain, but it'll be obvious when you look at the bottom of the cards...
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Re: Rough warm up? - unfazed - 06-03-13
A picture tells a thousand words :thumbup
You can push a piece of transparent tube onto the protruding part of the drain hole and drain it into a glass jar if your really fussy, awkward to push on Carb number 3 due to the proximity of the starter motor.
Re: Rough warm up? - darrsi - 06-03-13
Oh that's great, i honestly didn't know those drainage points even existed, i'm always learning every day at work but learning stuff about the bike seems just that little bit more rewarding.
I'll see if i can find some plastic tubing at work to do things properly rather than start squirting petrol everywhere.
mokin Theoretically this is all sounding like a very possible cause of my woes, so i'll probably wait until Saturday to do it so the bike can sit still overnight, 'cos i presume once you start it then any moisture will be spread all over the place, i must remember to not start it to get it out of the garage though!
And you're right, the pictures do speak a thousand words, very helpful, cheers.
Re: Rough warm up? - Buzz - 06-03-13
I just hold a shot glass under the drain hole and turn the screw - don't need to poke anything, seems to be the perfect for the about the amount of Petrol which comes out plus it fits perfectly under the carbs.
Re: Rough warm up? - packie - 06-03-13
I use a long tube running into a white dish situated off the bike. I use a white dish as it makes it easier to see any dirt that might be in the petrol too.
Using a tube is less akward that having something put under it like a glass shot especially if you want to drain and flush through a lot more than whats in the float bowl. I got dirty petrol that was so fine that it by-passed the filter on a Bandit 600. There was a lot of it there and it didn't help matters that the bike was sitting idle for 3 months after a crash. It took almost 200-300mls of drainage off of each carb before coming clean again. With a tube, I could just let it run off freely into the dish while inspecting it until the petrol was clean.
And of course, it goes without saying that don't forget to perform this task when the engine is cold to avoid buring your hands off a hot engine or spilling any petrol on it..........and NO
mokin !!!!
Re: Rough warm up? - darrsi - 06-03-13
Right, this morning i tried the full choke method and sure enough it revved into life but while it was revving it was still spluttering for a minute, so this idea of moisture contamination is sounding much more of a good thing to me.
It wasn't your average cold start struggle, it was a similar sound to when you get carb icing.
Then a minute later it was clear and purring quite happily.
Re: Rough warm up? - red98 - 06-03-13
my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though
Re: Rough warm up? - simonm - 06-03-13
(06-03-13, 10:09 AM)darrsi link Wrote: Right, this morning i tried the full choke method and sure enough it revved into life but while it was revving it was still spluttering for a minute, so this idea of moisture contamination is sounding much more of a good thing to me.
It wasn't your average cold start struggle, it was a similar sound to when you get carb icing.
Then a minute later it was clear and purring quite happily.
Definitely worth trying a carb drain :-). Glad it's somewhat improved. It may be worth trying half choke tomorrow if it doesn't seem happy.
I would really recommend you use the choke from cold every time as the bikes are designed for it. It only takes 30 seconds so there isn't any reason not to.
Simon
Re: Re: Rough warm up? - richfzs - 06-03-13
(06-03-13, 10:13 AM)red98 link Wrote: my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though
Why would it be that, when it's idling fine once warm?
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Re: Rough warm up? - simonm - 06-03-13
(06-03-13, 10:13 AM)red98 link Wrote: my monies still on pilot jets.....worth draining carbs first though
I wouldn't have thought it was the pilot jets. According to this:http://www.dansmc.com/carbs2.htm it would be the pilot/idle jet. But since it goes away when it's warm it would be unlikely?
I'd have thought it would be a choke/richness problem but anything where you could get condensation going from cold to hot and/or water would be a fair bet too.
please let me know if you want any more uneducated guesswork, I'm always up for talking knowledgeably about things I'm Ignorant of :-)