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+--- Thread: Jim'll fiddle it (/showthread.php?tid=60506)
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Streetbudgie - 11-10-12
(11-10-12, 07:41 AM)pitternator link Wrote: just why didnt any of these adults come forward before his death ??
Additional to the above, they did come forward, one girl who made such claims was declared 'a hysterical child with a dirty, perverted mind' and was commited to a Psychiatric Centre and held in isolation until she retracted the 'claim' and was declared cured of her mental illness.
I wonder why more didn't come forward.
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - pitternator - 11-10-12
I mean when these people became adults. When any claim could have been reported to the police and it could have been properly investigated, as opposed to now , which is all just impossible to either prove or do anything with the " facts".
ref his family...well given the hysteria , would you want to be associated with the grave in any way ...I feel they destroyed the headstone because it was impossible to use anymore. Its not an acknowledgement of his guilt.
I think we should all be concentrating with stuff we can do something about today , I think the whole issue is self defeating as just what more can be said and done??
I still find it hard to reconcile it all with a man who was a big figure in my childhood...and his charitable work was unprecedented . You cant compare it with local fundraising , which while obviously worthwhile and creditable, is nothing on the scale of what he raised.You know if it is true, its possible the biggest single shock in my life after deaths in my family...thats how I feel about it....why I feel the proof has to be certain...and can that be possible to achieve...?
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Phil TK - 11-10-12
(11-10-12, 05:08 PM)pitternator link Wrote: I think we should all be concentrating with stuff we can do something about today , I think the whole issue is self defeating as just what more can be said and done??
I learned yesterday that one of my relatives ex-girlfiends complained about being groped by Savile at a charity event decades ago and no-one beleived her, she got in a hell of a state at the time apparently. At least now at last others have come forward she can expect a more sympathetic ear (and some apologies) when she gets a chance to talk about what was one of the nastiest events of her young life.
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - acid drop - 11-10-12
Was Jimmy giving Rantzen one or two?????
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - fireblake - 11-10-12
I feel the same as Pitternator, a part of my childhood has been shocked the core. That's not to belittle the abuse suffered by all these young girl?
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Streetbudgie - 12-10-12
(11-10-12, 05:08 PM)pitternator link Wrote: I mean when these people became adults. When any claim could have been reported to the police and it could have been properly investigated, as opposed to now , which is all just impossible to either prove or do anything with the " facts".
ref his family...well given the hysteria , would you want to be associated with the grave in any way ...I feel they destroyed the headstone because it was impossible to use anymore. Its not an acknowledgement of his guilt.
I think we should all be concentrating with stuff we can do something about today , I think the whole issue is self defeating as just what more can be said and done??
I still find it hard to reconcile it all with a man who was a big figure in my childhood...and his charitable work was unprecedented . You cant compare it with local fundraising , which while obviously worthwhile and creditable, is nothing on the scale of what he raised.You know if it is true, its possible the biggest single shock in my life after deaths in my family...thats how I feel about it....why I feel the proof has to be certain...and can that be possible to achieve...?
That's a very honest post and I understand that this is affecting you on a personal level. However he was not a relative nor did you know him personally (I presume) and you must have been let down by people closer to you in the past, so why struggle to believe this when the evidence is gathering daily?
The reason people came foward now is simple - fear, he scared them as a child and scared them until they day he died and they knew he could hurt them no more.
I have to disagree about not being able to compare local fund raising with his efforts, most local fund raising is carried out by people who have to work for a living - JS did a radio show for a few hours a day and recorded one or two programmes a week.
He had a lot of spare time and people to drive him about to charity events and I think a lot of it was just turn up, show his face (which was now synonymous with charity fund raising), say something daft but supportive, wave a cigar about and bugger off.
A non famous employed person doing charity work has to commit a much higher ratio of their spare time to charity.
Also if you believe what is being written it appears he had his own agenda for going all over raising this money, at this stage it doesn't seem it was the heartfelt gesture we all thought it to be.
What is shocking me about the whole thing is the reaction by his family (this makes me think they knew something was wrong) and the BBC leeches like Rantzen saying but not saying they knew it was going on but could do nothing about it - bullshit, if I knew the King of England was a fiddler I would be shouting about it until someone heard me (as an adult, not a frightened child).
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - BBROWN1664 - 12-10-12
What is the point in the police investigation? He is dead ffs, its not like they are going to get a conviction out of it.
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - VNA - 12-10-12
Did you see the documentary Pitternator?
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - goldfazer - 12-10-12
'What is the point in the police investigation? '
1. Try and prevent it happening again.
2. Find out if anyone still alive 'assisted'/had suspsicions/knew. And string them up
3. Closure? for the victims.
Certainly plenty of lessons to be learned, although most of them probably already have been since then.
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Robbie8666 - 12-10-12
taking this totally off thread and not belittling any previous comments or points of view / opinions on this matter but linked to his charity work .... Lance armstrong who is now looking like he may have been cheating raised half a billion dollars for cancer charity .... thats a lorra lorra cash!!!
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Chillum - 12-10-12
Modern society has no way of assessing whether the ends justify the means, I mean there is a huge demographic out there that have social distinctions based on EastEnders ffs.
Personally I'm in the camp of right is right, and wrong is wrong.
A few years back my father-in-law was accused of molesting my nephew (on my wife's side, so his grandson). The parents didn't really want to know because it was too difficult to deal with (nothing overtly sexual, but the kid claims he was tied up (as part of game) and had his nipples rubbed.
The problem with this kind of ostrich behaviour is that that everyone knew about this accusation, except the accused.
I (and my wife) were the only ones to confront the issue head-on and talk to him about it. Not least of which was to put him on warning that it was now known about and wouldn't be hidden under the carpet.
In the end the kid ended up hating his parents more than his grandfather because they failed to take his side and do anything about it.
I would much rather let one incident pass un-prosecuted but out in the open, than bury my head in the sand and catch the bloke later on for something a lot more serious.
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Major Rant - 12-10-12
He was a buddy of Prince Charles ... I always wondered what they had in common? :eek
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - Hogi - 13-10-12
(12-10-12, 09:19 AM)Streetbudgie link Wrote: if I knew the King of England was a fiddler I would be shouting about it until someone heard me (as an adult, not a frightened child).
Which is why a number of people are asking why the alleged victims didn't speak up when they became adults and when he was alive..and when there was a chance to hold him to account?. Or their parents, or family, siblings, friends, etc etc - no one?
And while the focus is currently on the BBC's conduct, what about the rest of the media? I find it hard to believe the unlamented News of the World among others were intimidated into silence. Pretty sure they'd have had a field day on this.
Not defending him but just asking - where was the shouting?
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - fireblake - 13-10-12
+1 Hogi
Mickey
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - dr bong - 13-10-12
Jimmy Savile's family have had the gravestone removed along with the flowers as a mark of respect.
It just leaves a small hole and no bush around it. Just what he would have wanted..............
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - chaz - 14-10-12
it's all in his name
JIMMY SAVILE ------------------------- MY I'M VILE AS, J.
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - pitternator - 14-10-12
VNA
I saw parts of it.And its been very heavily covered on J. Vine which I listen to most days.But irrespective of what has been said and claimed, there is still the fundamental principle of justice, which is innocent till proven guilty.I have to say there are now many many claims, and looking at it disspassionately there comes a point where you may have to say well some must be right...though statistically its not correct to make that assumption. There also has been a media circus over it all now, which also will call into question whether people are just making claims in the hope of being famous for a while or even hopes of compensation.
Its why I just think, there will be nothing to come of it anymore. JS reputation is gone...what more can this do ?
Child abuse goes on all the time, this case may serve to highlight the issue now, but I cant see how future cases of abuse will be stopped because of these " revelations".
JS was not a relative ( of course) , but a leading icon in the 60s and 70s, and he did many sponsored runs/ walks etc. He was pivotal in raising funds for stoke mandeville. Its a tragedy whatever way you look at it ...for everyone.
What also concerns me is just how influential media campaigns can be in creating public opinion.... " no smoke without fire"...
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - VNA - 14-10-12
You should have watched the whole programme.
It was quite compelling.
Sadly there is no doubt that JS was a peadophile.
Numerous people reported him over the years. No action was ever taken. The police it seems failed, for whatever reason, to join the dots over several decades.
Quote:he did many sponsored runs/ walks etc. He was pivotal in raising funds for stoke mandeville. Its a tragedy whatever way you look at it ...for everyone.
Particularly for the victims, and of them the ones brave enougth to stand up to him and make a complaint, only to be told not to be so silly etc etc.
It would also appear that everything Jimmy did during his life, was as much as anything, about getting access to children.
Quote:but I cant see how future cases of abuse will be stopped because of these " revelations".
Lessons have to learned. I think some of them already have been. Questions must be asked why this was all brushed under the carpet over several decades. Surely that much his victims deserve?
I just hope it doesn't lead to further public paranoia, wrapping children up in even more cotton wool etc. And of course the truth is today, just as it was then, most abuse takes place in the family.
Though who would have expected their kids to be sexually abused at the BBC?
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - dickturpin - 14-10-12
Can't help thinking there could be several bands from the same era sitting a little uncomfortably at the moment, given the ages of some of the groupies that followed them!
Re: Jim'll fiddle it - VNA - 14-10-12
Indeed.
Was just listening to Dr Feelgood - Malpractice, one of the songs is entitled 'Don't let your Daddy know'.