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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - steve 10562cc - 26-11-18
Perhaps the English should be given a referendum so we could become an independent country again. Scotland would not need another one then they would be on their own.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 26-11-18
When there's been a referendum on the matter (Leave EU), the MP's should respect the majority view of the voters within their constituency area and vote accordingly as a formality. Why should one person make out they know better than the thousands who voted otherwise?.
I can see this whole thing ending up reversed and us being locked into the EU forever.
I'm never voting ever again in any election/referendum if that happens.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 26-11-18
...yep it's started. All they're talking about on the radio now is having another referendum after they've wrecked May's deal and getting the Leave result reversed :wall
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 26-11-18
Quote:VNA;
OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules? So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
Quote:Dazza;
And if you for one moment think I'm going to trawl through 52741 laws that the EU has imposed on us since 1990 you been drinking too much of that Scottish whiskey. [img alt=:lol width=20 height=20]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/img]
It's quite plain and simple, and I can only speak for myself.... The EU is undemocratic, we didn't vote them in, we can't vote them out...... That, right there is the main reason I voted to leave.
My Great Grandad served in world war 1 and was wounded by machine gun in the leg. Luckily he survived.
My Grandad served in World war 2 in the desert under Monty. He never spoke about it right up to the day he died.
I'm not going to go into detail about my service because it's not important.
I don't believe in God but If I ever met up with them again after this life is over, I want to look them in the eye, knowing I didn't just vote to hand power over to the very nation they fought against for us.
There are many of us Englishmen who feel the same and will never change our minds.
I've served with Scots, proud Scots, good men, solid men. Men who were not only proud of being Scottish but we're also proud of being British.
I know this, you don't represent all Scottish.
I bet the fishermen would see you as a Judas.
The best thing for all is that you just accept.... We had the vote, it didn't go your way, that's it,deal with it and move on.
Get behind it and let's all make the most of any opportunities that come from it.
Stop being the voice of doom and gloom.
You wanted an independent Scotland... I don't blame you but that didn't go your way either........
It's all starting to make sense now why you cant let it go...... Don't hate us, don't hate English politics, it's all corrupt, it's all a load of bollocks. We all know that and we know there's nothing we can do about it.
We all just make the best of what we've got.
What we don't want or need is the EU thinking they know best for us too.... Because they don't,they don't give a fuck either.... Look at all the riots going on in France at the moment.
All up in arms over taxation.
The influx of Moslem men sexually assaulting German women... How do you think that's going end.
Europe is a pressure cooker waiting to explode, surely you can see that.
I'm out of this thread now, it's obvious where I stand and why.
You just need to accept you didn't get the result you wanted.
If it had gone the other way, I for one would've just accepted and got on with it.
Sae thas naw, ye didnae ken? Thought so.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 26-11-18
Quote:When there's been a referendum on the matter (Leave EU), the MP's should respect the majority view of the voters within their constituency area and vote accordingly as a formality. Why should one person make out they know better than the thousands who voted otherwise?.
We’ve been over that. It was a consultative referendum. Nobody had a clue what BREXIT would mean in reality. We now have a proposed deal. MP’s do not have to accept any old deal that is put before them.
Quote:I'm never voting ever again in any election/referendum if that happens.Good. More power to my vote.
Look the reality is as full members of the EU we are part of process. We have a say in everything the EU does. We are part of the democratic process. Any piece of legislation can be voted down by 3 member states objecting in agreement. And on major decisions we have a veto. Under the EU we are a sovereign state.
This interim deal keeps us in the customs union allowing us free trade with the EU for the duration of the transition. But it takes us out of any negotiations relating to the running of the single market and customs union, and obviously we loose our veto. We will no longer be a sovereign state as long as we remain under May’s deal. And of course for the pleasure of loosing our sovereignty we pay 35 billion quid :eek
We will remain locked into the customs union for ever and a day until we come up with a solution to the Irish border. To date nobody has come up with a workable solution. So not only do we have no say in the running of the customs union but the EU will hold us locked into it. Hence we will no longer be a sovereign state.
Quote:I bet the fishermen would see you as a Judas.I think that is how many see the Prime Minister Dazza. We will continue to abide by the common fisheries policy until such time as we can negotiate a new policy. That is a new policy that the EU will accept. It will ultimately be their decision not ours.
Same goes for everything else. This is an interim deal to facilitate the real BREXIT negotiations.
So are there any positives? Well yes one – that is if, if, if, parliament ultimate sings this off. Once we realise our mistake, and that is that we are no longer a sovereign nation and we are stuck in a temporary position indefinitely – we will be able to re-negotiate full membership in order to regain our sovereignty. However our terms will have to be acceptable to the 27 existing members.
We will never achieve the deal we currently have. May's deal is shite.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 26-11-18
Ok lets have another referendum but the questions HAVE to include a No Deal exit as well as May's deal or stay.I voted to leave - I didn't vote for a deal - I didn't vote to give the EU 39 billion, none of that was on the ballot paper.And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets. It should be based on what we have learnt over the past 18 months and witnessed.
If a no deal leave is on the ballot paper that is what most people will vote for - my prediction. We leave - the EU does not pass go they do not collect 39Billion. We then negotiate the bits we want how ever long the politicians want to take pissing about doing it, but we do it from a position of out and holding all the cash.
By the way has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 26-11-18
Quote:Ok lets have another referendum but the questions HAVE to include a No Deal exit as well as May's deal or stay.I voted to leave - I didn't vote for a deal - I didn't vote to give the EU 39 billion, none of that was on the ballot paper.And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets. It should be based on what we have learnt over the past 18 months and witnessed.If a no deal leave is on the ballot paper that is what most people will vote for - my prediction. We leave - the EU does not pass go they do not collect 39Billion. We then negotiate the bits we want how ever long the politicians want to take pissing about doing it, but we do it from a position of out and holding all the cash.I partially agree with you. Nobody knew what BREXIT would actually mean at the time of the referendum (though please remember the referendum is actually about the Tory party). Now we do. Or rather we know what the interim deal is.
Has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
As for NO DEAL, I do not think parliament would ever put that to the people. It’s not an option. The BREXITEERS will eventually have to accept that.
Quote:And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets.You can’t do that. It would be undemocratic. Illegal in fact.
Quote:Has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.It is simply to fulfil our contractual obligations. Remember we are fully paid up members who are in fact tearing up our contract and getting divorced. So we have already approved and committed to expenditure, projects etc etc before June 2016.
And if you NO DEAL – our credit rating will be effected. If you NO DEAL and don’t pay, our credit rating will be trashed and our reputation around the globe damaged. Sadly we have no choice but to pay.
To be honest, we just have to sit back and see what happens at this point. I don’t think May’s deal will be voted through parliament (I could of course be wrong) and if it does indeed not pass, well it’s just a guessing game as to what happens next. A second referendum is just one of a number of possible options. This is a very serious UK political crises now.
Seriously as for NO DEAL. It’s just not going to happen. No idea what the bookies are offering on that, if they will even offer odds on it. I really do genuinely think it’s that low a possibility.
To get that you would have to elect the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists – ie UKIP – whom I get the feeling barely exists now. :eek
:lol Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 26-11-18
(26-11-18, 10:39 PM)VNA link Wrote: To get that you would have to elect the closet racists – ie UKIP –Whilst we are on the subject the remainers had the audacity to point at Mogs crew and call them Dads Army - all old WHITE men. Have they not seen the main Brussels bureaucrats all old WHITE men giving out their demands for quotas on migrants that countries must take, where is the diversity in the EU high command where are all the women and people of colour. I would hazard a guess that there are more people of colour in UKIP than in the corridors of Brussels.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 26-11-18
Quote:Quote from: VNA on Today at 09:39:34 PMTo get that you would have to elect the closet racists – ie UKIP –
Whoa,
Selective quoting is OK, but that's actually altering what I said.
Focs sake don't forget the fruitcakes and loonies.
Quote:Have they not seen the main Brussels bureaucrats all old WHITE men giving out their demands for quotas on migrants that countries must take, where is the diversity in the EU high command where are all the women and people of colour.The answer is - we elected them. :lol
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 26-11-18
What we're getting now (and not just on here) is a lot of Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?) because they are not going to get the particular version of Brexit they wanted - to just walk away immediately, pay nothing, expect the world to come beating at our door. They assume that everybody who voted Leave wanted exactly the same as them, when clearly that wasn't the case. Many wanted an EFTA /EEA type deal 'just like Norway and Switzerland who are doing so well'. But now No Deal Brexiteers try to hijack the 52% majority vote.
Well the good news is it's not going to happen. As VNA says we don't know what's next, but that's not it.
Then of course there's the current criminal investigation of Arron Banks and the indication of illegal foreign funding. They're not going to let him off the hook.
At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.
So I'm feeling more confident by the day. This is going only in one direction.
Bollocks To Brexit
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 27-11-18
I don't remember there being any talk about deals when the referendum took place, just Remain or Leave. I assumed we'd just hand in our membership card so to speak and come right out :rolleyes .
I agree, it does appear to be only going in one direction. That's the bit that worries me.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 27-11-18
Quote:Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?)That's rubbish it doesn't work. Bregret was a good one and worked when the remainers were trying to create a narrative that a lot of brexiteers now regret voting leave, funny that one did not catch on and they have given up on that tact.
(26-11-18, 11:57 PM)mtread link Wrote: At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.I don't think that is correct as there was a lot who did not like the EU as it was but thought that they could change the EU to their liking from within. The leavers voted leave because they knew dam well that aint going to happen. Camoron proved that when he went to the EU with his begging bowl --- they just spat in it and threw him in the Channel.These are the kind of people in charge of the EU project.I would be quite happy to go back to how it all started - as a group of trading nations, without an EU army, EU laws,integrated tax and VAT. Thank the British people that Blair/Brown dare not put forward a referendum on joining the euro cause they knew how that would end.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 27-11-18
If you have free seamless trade in a single market, then you have to have harmonised taxation including VAT. And O yes, I do know what I'm talking about
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 27-11-18
Quote: Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?)OK 'Brexshiteers' then. That one stuck, if you excuse the pun
That's rubbish it doesn't work.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 27-11-18
(27-11-18, 11:01 AM)mtread link Wrote: If you have free seamless trade in a single market, then you have to have harmonised taxation including VAT. And O yes, I do know what I'm talking aboutI never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join and I also did not realise that 18% all that VAT we raise goes to the EU.
Well that's even better then - leave the EU fully and every item with VAT will be 20% cheaper.
So if VAT is harmonised how come its at different rates and on different products across the EU
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 27-11-18
Mrs May has challenged Corbyn to a live TV Brexit debate prior to the Commons vote.
Probably be on the BBC with a studio audience full of Remainers that keep constantly booing/whooping so May can hardly get a word in and chaired by Victoria Derbyshire I expect :rolleyes
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 27-11-18
Quote: I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join and I also did not realise that 18% all that VAT we raise goes to the EU.Well that's even better then - leave the EU fully and every item with VAT will be 20% cheaper.So if VAT is harmonised how come its at different rates and on different products across the EU
The proportion of VAT we pay over to the EU is a major part of the 'membership fee' The so called £350 million a week '. All EU states pay the same proportional contribution. Its the way of making sure' bigger 'countries pay more than the smaller ones.
As to every item being 20% cheaper, I don't think your arithmetic quite works. Perhaps you could show your workings?
All VAT in the EU is harmonised within boundaries, plus or minus certain percentages. Also what you can charge VAT on, and what you don't. EU 6th VAT directive.
It's to ensure that when you buy (say) Yamaha parts from Germany, you pay German VAT rather than have to reclaim it and pay UK VAT as an import.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - agricola - 27-11-18
(27-11-18, 12:53 PM)mtread link Wrote:Quote: I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join and I also did not realise that 18% all that VAT we raise goes to the EU.Well that's even better then - leave the EU fully and every item with VAT will be 20% cheaper.So if VAT is harmonised how come its at different rates and on different products across the EU
The proportion of VAT we pay over to the EU is a major part of the 'membership fee' The so called £350 million a week '. All EU states pay the same proportional contribution. Its the way of making sure' bigger 'countries pay more than the smaller ones.
As to every item being 20% cheaper, I don't think your arithmetic quite works. Perhaps you could show your workings?
All VAT in the EU is harmonised within boundaries, plus or minus certain percentages. Also what you can charge VAT on, and what you don't. EU 6th VAT directive.
It's to ensure that when you buy (say) Yamaha parts from Germany, you pay German VAT rather than have to reclaim it and pay UK VAT as an import.
And that sounds like a load of EU fudge doesnt. Fact is, VAT membership contributions should disappear upon leaving, so the boundary harmonised plus or minus charge it on what you like reclaim or not percentage should disappera from our tax burden
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 27-11-18
Quote:What we're getting now (and not just on here) is a lot of Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?) because they are not going to get the particular version of Brexit they wanted - to just walk away immediately, pay nothing, expect the world to come beating at our door. They assume that everybody who voted Leave wanted exactly the same as them, when clearly that wasn't the case. Many wanted an EFTA /EEA type deal 'just like Norway and Switzerland who are doing so well'. But now No Deal Brexiteers try to hijack the 52% majority vote.
Well the good news is it's not going to happen. As VNA says we don't know what's next, but that's not it.
Then of course there's the current criminal investigation of Arron Banks and the indication of illegal foreign funding. They're not going to let him off the hook.
At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.
So I'm feeling more confident by the day. This is going only in one direction.
Bollocks To Brexit [img alt=
That’s an excellent post mtread.
There is another aspect that I feel the country needs to consider moving forwards. The official LEAVE campaign portrayed BREXIT as turning the UK into a land of milk and honey. They made out that that EU took 350 million pounds a week from the UK and that we received nothing in return. They further stated that we could simply leave and we would then have 350 million pounds a week more to spend on the NHS. The whole campaign was based on lies. The people fronting this campaign openly lied. One definition of a lie is - a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
If currently under our legal system there is no possibility of prosecuting those who led that campaign (eg Johnston and Gove), then the question surely needs to be asked if we should review our laws in light of the BREXIT referendum and the LEAVE campaign.
As for this only going in one direction – yes I hope so for the sake of the whole UK and the future prosperity of this Union. However I remain somewhat concerned that the main opposition, that indeed facilitated BREXIT by voting through article 50, still seems unable to decide what their next move should be. BREXIT should already be dead and buried, but right now, though on life support, it is still breathing. BREXIT is still a threat to the future of the United Kingdom.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 27-11-18
Quote:I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to joinFazersharp, VAT replaced the UK’s purchase tax. And it was definitely a step in the right direction.
Mrs May has challenged Corbyn to a live TV Brexit debate prior to the Commons vote.
YamFazFan, Yes apparently “Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn have agreed to take part in a live TV debate on Brexit before MPs vote on the deal.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46355299
I presume that Northern Ireland, Wales, and Scotland will also be represented.