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+--- Thread: BREXIT (/showthread.php?tid=80202)
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 25-11-18
(25-11-18, 08:46 PM)VNA link Wrote: What I don’t get is what do people want from BREXIT.FINALLY :rolleyes
OK so an end to freedom of movement and alternative arrangement to the common fisheries policy.
Irrespective of whether one agrees with these aims or not they are understandable. I get it.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Quote:But if the result of that second leagally binding referendum was 'Remain' (ditch Brexit), then surely the electorate who voted Leave in the first one will be going bonkers?!. They'll be blaming Parliament for robbing them of their victory won't they?.
Surely no government would ever risk such a thing.
So the argument is that the people who voted for LEAVE can now see the deal. When we voted in 2016 nobody had any idea of what BREXIT would look like. The truth is we still have no idea, and in fact it’s clear that it may not be possible at all.
So parliament could now go to the people and ask them – this is what it looks like – what do you want us to do?
They'll be blaming Parliament for robbing them of their victory won't they?.
I would hope not. But maybe. And anyway they will be the same people who have been blaming the EU for the actions of successive UK governments that they have elected.
Remember this was never offered to the people for the good of the people. And if I can quote Agricola;
Quote:That’s what politicians do. All the time.Or rather it’s what Tory politicians are prepared to do to win an election. They gambled the future health of the UK economy on an election. Remember Tories exist for no other reason than to rule.
Agricola – at the end of the day – we elect them. Wait for it…………………………………
We’ll get the government we deserve. :lol
And we might even get the BREXIT we deserve too. :eek
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Quote:FINALLY [img alt=:rolleyes]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/img]No I've always got that.
But is that it?
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 25-11-18
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens next with the vote in parliament. I suppose the whips are out for this vote are they?. I don't agree with that. It's a joke. Makes a mockery of democracy.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 25-11-18
Quote:Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.What is a Myth is that we actually really have any say in the EU. If we did then Camoron would of ben able to get us some concessions and there would of been no need for Brexit.But instead the EU treated him and the British people with an arrogant contempt.
The EU imposing law on us is a myth.The 27 EU countries can amend the customs union and we will have no say.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 25-11-18
Quote:There could be further negotiation, though the EU appears to be saying very firmly that that will not be an option.Well they would say that wouldn't they - its called negotiating
Quote:Again, pretty much everybody agrees that NO DEAL is not an option. The EU won’t that say that right now, but the reality is though it wouldn’t hurt them anything as much as it would hurt us, they simply don’t want to go there either.Er I think not getting their 39 billion under a no deal might make them wince a little
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 25-11-18
(25-11-18, 09:12 PM)VNA link Wrote: Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.You really believe that.
Im sure Grease also negotiated, im sure Italy is negotiating how to be told they must re do their budget.
Negotiated :rollin
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - dazza - 25-11-18
(25-11-18, 09:12 PM)VNA link Wrote: Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.Would love to see the evidence of this statement.
It's a fact that the EU has "imposed" over 52000 laws on us since 1990
Yep, you're definitely on a wind up
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 25-11-18
They call it 'Qualified Majority Voting' don't they?.
Ie: the UK can vote against something, but still be forced to implement it because it was out voted by the other member states.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 25-11-18
Quote: Im sure Grease also negotiated,Don't think Olivia Newton John could do much negotiating in those tight trousers :eek
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - fazersharp - 25-11-18
(25-11-18, 07:32 PM)VNA link Wrote: In other words a true BREXIT would mean the end of the United Kingdom and Great Britain.Why do you present that as a dooms day Armageddon to make an anti Brexit point and yet that is EXACTLY what you want to happen with your quest for scottish independence.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Quote:They call it 'Qualified Majority Voting' don't they?.
Ie: the UK can vote against something, but still be forced to implement it because it was out voted by the other member states.
The EU operates on the principle of consensus, it makes every effort to keep every country on board with every piece of legislation.
Minor issues can be voted on after negotiation by 'Qualified Majority Voting.
The UK can veto any legislation if it can get three other countries on board.
On key major decisions the UK can alone VETO legislation.
https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Quote:Why do you present that as a dooms day Armageddon to make an anti Brexit point and yet that is EXACTLY what you want to happen with your quest for scottish independence.The priority has to be full single market membership.
Look I voted for Independence? Why?
Because I have never voted Tory in my life. My country hasn’t voted Tory since the 50’s And the Tory party of the 50’s is not the Tory party we have today. The Tory party has steadily moved to the right over many decades.
So, Scotland doesn’t vote Tory and Scotland voted decisively to remain in the EU. In fact, only half the countries that make up the UK voted to leave.
The Scottish parliament will continue to seek and obtain powers, and some sort of settled position will eventually be reached. That may be full Independence or eventual fiscal autonomy.
Many of us in Scotland want the government we deserve – the governments we vote for, not government imposed on us by another country.
I’m not a rose tinted, or some sort of patriotic nationalist, it’s simply a matter of building the country and the future that we vote for. England and Scotland sadly continue to grow apart. That’s a shame but it’s just a fact of life.
We want our country to be the best it can be. But nor do we want to see our most important trading partner shoot itself in both feet then blow it’s heid clean aff. How would that be good for our economy?
There are some in Scotland who see BREXIT as an opportunity for Independence. There are some in the governing party the SNP who also think the same. We have our equivalents of Boris, Moog, IDS, Redwood etc, but like in England they are a minority.
So the priority in Scotland is economic, not trashing our economy and future wealth in the hope, and it is only a hope, of independence growing from the smoking remains.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Quote:It's a fact that the EU has "imposed" over 52000 laws on us since 1990
Really!? :rolleyes
So what are these objectional laws and how do they negatively impact on us?
You know I sometimes wonder if the real problem is that England has never got over the loss of it’s empire. English people are still dreaming of the days they ruled the world. Consensus, compromise and co-operation are maybe just not the English way. :pokefun
The EU is 28 countries, with numerous languages, 28 sovereign governments, 28 legal systems, - all trading freely and unrestricted within a single market. It is quite an achievement.
Inevitably that means bureaucracy, however it is nothing like the unsurmountable bureaucracy involved in trying to trade with 28 separate markets.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - YamFazFan - 25-11-18
If the UK has such power and influence as you say over it's law making within the EU, then it won't make any difference if we come out will it :rolleyes
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - dazza - 25-11-18
1. Google it
2. Google it
3. Google it
4. Google it
5. Google it
6. Google it
7. Google it
8. Google it
9. Google it
10. Google it
I could do this 52000 or more times but would be simpler if you googled it like I did.
And nowhere did I say they're all objectionable and negatively impact us.
That's you adding your own slant to it to suit your agenda.
You may add the poking fun symbol but you really come across as having a problem the the English.
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - VNA - 25-11-18
Quote:You may add the poking fun symbol but you really come across as having a problem the the English.No, not at all. I do have a problem with English politics. It’s simple – you guys get the governments you deserve :lol – I want that opportunity too.
Or perhaps English folks don’t like Independent minded Scots;
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,May by thy mighty aid,Victory bring.May he sedition hush,and like a torrent rush,Rebellious Scots to crush,God save the King. :pokefun
My whole voting life has been under Tory governments. And before you say New Labour, well it was just Maggie’s biggest achievement.
Quote:I could do this 52000 or more times but would be simpler if you googled it like I did. [img alt=OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules? So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
And nowhere did I say they're all objectionable and negatively impact us.
Or is this all about freedom of movement, and fishing?
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - mtread - 26-11-18
It doesn't really matter, because it's becoming clearer and clearer that there won't be a 'No Deal' Brexit. So it's either 'May's Brexit' or 'No Brexit'. Either way, we'll be bound to the EU for years to come
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread - dazza - 26-11-18
(25-11-18, 11:46 PM)VNA link Wrote: No, not at all. I do have a problem with English politics. It’s simple – you guys get the governments you deserve :lol – I want that opportunity too.And if you for one moment think I'm going to trawl through 52741 laws that the EU has imposed on us since 1990 you been drinking too much of that Scottish whiskey. :lol
Or perhaps English folks don’t like Independent minded Scots
Ok, you must get it then. We want to be in control of our own destiny, just like you do.
This is me having to explain things over and over.
Didn't you get my analogy of a toxic partner dictating to you....Of course you did so why are you still asking the same question about what Brexiteers want.
I've also previously explained that everyone, depending on their own experiences voted to leave for their own reasons.
You can imply that we are uneducated, thick, misinformed or racist but we voted out because of what we saw, felt and what was affecting us.
Do I give a fuck if the price of German cars go up.... No, even though I drive one. I'll buy Japenese or pay the extra. I really couldn't give two fucks.
OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules? So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
Or is this all about freedom of movement, and fishing?
It's quite plain and simple, and I can only speak for myself.... The EU is undemocratic, we didn't vote them in, we can't vote them out...... That, right there is the main reason I voted to leave.
My Great Grandad served in world war 1 and was wounded by machine gun in the leg. Luckily he survived.
My Grandad served in World war 2 in the desert under Monty. He never spoke about it right up to the day he died.
I'm not going to go into detail about my service because it's not important.
I don't believe in God but If I ever met up with them again after this life is over, I want to look them in the eye, knowing I didn't just vote to hand power over to the very nation they fought against for us.
There are many of us Englishmen who feel the same and will never change our minds.
I've served with Scots, proud Scots, good men, solid men. Men who were not only proud of being Scottish but we're also proud of being British.
I know this, you don't represent all Scottish.
I bet the fishermen would see you as a Judas.
The best thing for all is that you just accept.... We had the vote, it didn't go your way, that's it,deal with it and move on.
Get behind it and let's all make the most of any opportunities that come from it.
Stop being the voice of doom and gloom.
You wanted an independent Scotland... I don't blame you but that didn't go your way either........
It's all starting to make sense now why you cant let it go...... Don't hate us, don't hate English politics, it's all corrupt, it's all a load of bollocks. We all know that and we know there's nothing we can do about it.
We all just make the best of what we've got.
What we don't want or need is the EU thinking they know best for us too.... Because they don't,they don't give a fuck either.... Look at all the riots going on in France at the moment.
All up in arms over taxation.
The influx of Moslem men sexually assaulting German women... How do you think that's going end.
Europe is a pressure cooker waiting to explode, surely you can see that.
I'm out of this thread now, it's obvious where I stand and why.
You just need to accept you didn't get the result you wanted.
If it had gone the other way, I for one would've just accepted and got on with it.