+- Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb)
+-- Forum: General (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=65)
+--- Forum: General (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=69)
+--- Thread: Great interview (/showthread.php?tid=77056)
Re: Great interview - VNA - 08-12-16
Quote:You have said there is no advantage to leaving, I still see exiting CAP and managing our subsidies as a classically obvious reason to leave. Why should UK taxpayers fund the farmers of other countries? Why isn't removing another layer of governance an advantage? I want less politicians making higher quality decisions, not loads contradicting each other on different levels.
The main point of the EU is to create one single market, open access and single standards across it’s member states.
What you want is 28 countries worth of politicians, 28 sets of standards, 28 separate markets with their own rules and tariffs.
So yes I agree with you, less politicians, more simplicity and common standards which is why I believe in the EU.
I hear what you are saying Agricola, but I think what you are confusing is the results over 30 years of neoliberal politics in the UK with the expansion of the EU. Our woes are down to poor UK governments not the EU. People are kicking the wrong ball.
You talk of nationally owned utilities for example. Successive UK governments relentlessly followed a neoliberal privatisation programme. Much of the rest of the EU continued to invest in their publicly owned infrastructure and utilities. The reality is now today our utilities are again nationally owned, only it’s the wrong nations that own and run them. That’s our fault in the UK, leaving the EU will do nothing to resolve poor governance and economics in the UK.
Quote:You mean the experts that said house prices would go down by 10%, interest rates would go up , there'd need an emergency budget , a double dip recession would happen , firms like Nissan and google would not invest and leave altogether ,unemployment would rise and Trump didn't have a cat in hells chance..... hmmm don't ya just love an expert
But we are still full members of the EU. Nothing has yet changed. But the fact is that many forgein owned firms are putting expansion and investment in the UK on hold right now, whilst many others are drawing up contingency plans to leave.
As for Nissan, they have received reassurances from the UK government. Though other economic commentators have pointed out that Nissans UK manufacturing are their best in the EU. Such is the efficiency that they could take modest tariffs in their stride.
It also raises the question of what exactly happened to our own home grown car industry. Why is Nissan Sunderland such a fantastic success when our own home grown car industry was a disaster and died a slow painful death. It’s simple – management. The Japanese know how to manage a plant and it’s workforce.
So yes we have numerous issues, yes the UK is a bit of a mess, but no leaving the EU isn’t the answer.
Re: Great interview - fazersharp - 08-12-16
<blockquote>
Quote:You mean the experts that said house prices would go down by 10%, interest rates would go up , there'd need an emergency budget , a double dip recession would happen , firms like Nissan and google would not invest and leave altogether ,unemployment would riseexpert</blockquote>
Quote:But we are still full members of the EU. Nothing has yet changed.Yes but the point being made is that we were told all of that would happen straight away in June.
Quote:The main point of the EU is to create one single market, open access and single standards across it’s member statesThat's what it was when it started and if that's all it was now then that would be fine but its not just that now is it.
Quote:We Brexit but pay to access the single market and accept free movement (which will pretty much mean paying what we pay now – no discount on a new deal – but having no say in how the EU reforms.We pay to access the single market now by paying our sub, we have no say even when threatened that we will leave they virtually through Cammoron back in the channel.
If that's the way it is then fine --we will pay to access the single market (like we do now ) but we wont in that case be accepting the free movement of people because that is only a rule for free access to the single market ( yet its not free cause we pay to be in it )
Re: Great interview - mtread - 08-12-16
Quote:Yes but the point being made is that we were told all of that would happen straight away in June.
Um I don't think we were. Interest rates will go up. Inflation is already rising because of the weak £. Interest rates will follow. The government has already said it will borrow, and if so interest rates will rise. When interest rates rise, house prices will fall as people cannot afford their mortgage and try to sell. It's basic economics.
Nissan has been bribed with a hidden (and possibly empty) promise. I see today major banks are making contingency plans to move to Europe. Paris wants them. It will take 30,000 extra Civil Servants to manage this mess.
I see today that Boris the Brexiteer still can't keep his mouth shut. Of course he might take the opposite view tomorrow. What a star!
Re: Great interview - fazersharp - 08-12-16
(08-12-16, 09:49 PM)mtread link Wrote:Its a funny one with houses - when they are going up it gets billed as a bad thing but when they come down - that's also a bad thing. Oh and when they stay the same - well that's a bad thing too because they are stagnating.Quote:Yes but the point being made is that we were told all of that would happen straight away in June.
Um I don't think we were. Interest rates will go up. Inflation is already rising because of the weak £. Interest rates will follow. The government has already said it will borrow, and if so interest rates will rise. When interest rates rise, house prices will fall as people cannot afford their mortgage and try to sell. It's basic economics.
Nissan has been bribed with a hidden (and possibly empty) promise. I see today major banks are making contingency plans to move to Europe. Paris wants them. It will take 30,000 extra Civil Servants to manage this mess.
I see today that Boris the Brexiteer still can't keep his mouth shut. Of course he might take the opposite view tomorrow. What a star!
Re: Great interview - Graham53 - 08-12-16
Making contingency plans and doing it are not the same , the employees of the banks don't want to go to Paris , taxes and cost of living is higher than here that's why rich French moved to London.
Re: Great interview - mtread - 08-12-16
Quote:Its a funny one with houses - when they are going up it gets billed as a bad thing but when they come down - that's also a bad thing. Oh and when they stay the same - well that's a bad thing too because they are stagnating.Actual house prices are immaterial. It's affordability that matters, which is a combination of wages/interest rates/borrowing. If any one of those goes wrong it all collapses like a house of cards (pun intended). If prices fall to less than you've borrowed and you need to sell, the shit hits the fan, and you have an ongoing debt and nothing to show for it. It's happened before.
Quote:the employees of the banks don't want to go to ParisThe investment bankers that matter are big earners and will go wherever the money takes them.
Quote:cost of living is higher than here. Have you seen the cost of living in London! The French moved to London to follow the work. If the work isn't here they will be the first gone
Re: Great interview - VNA - 09-12-16
Quote:Yes but the point being made is that we were told all of that would happen straight away in June.
My recollection is that the vast majority of experts stated what they expected to happen if the UK left the EU.
The BREXITERS seemed to peddle the myth that the day after the vote the UK would be out of the EU.
We might want to consider why this referendum was held. It was offered by David Cameron in order to unite his party so that they could win the general election. Firstly nobody expected the Tories to win a majority but they did. Secondly DC didn’t think the referendum would be a problem, whereas in fact it ended his premiership and his political career.
But be clear it was never offered by DC for the good of the UK, he offered it in order to further his own political career.
Boris Johnston changed his mind on the EU earlier this year in order to further his own political career.
Teresa May sided with Remain, except that she didn’t do any campaigning. Now it turns out she is the most enthusiastic Brexiter of them all!
So put your faith in the Tory party and Brexit if you want.
As for house prices, well we have over inflated house prices in the UK because we don’t have enough housing stock, and of course we sold all the council housing stock.
But yes mtread is right, the pound has fallen sharply, it does not appear to be recovering, that means inflation. It means less money in your pocket. That in turn alone will mean a weaker economy. So, so far, the predictions of the experts are on track.
In the longer term if we are outside of the EU single market – that is the biggest single open market in the world. Well what is going to be the priority for global firms, the EU or the UK. It’s clearly going to the EU.
Re: Great interview - fazersharp - 09-12-16
Quote:Well what is going to be the priority for global firms, the EU or the UK. It’s clearly going to the EU.
Mc donalds just announced they are moving outside US operations from the EU zone TO the UK.
Quote:My recollection is that the vast majority of experts stated what they expected to happen if the UK left the EU.Let me help you there
George Osborne, 15th June
Together with the former Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling, vows today that the hit to the economy would be so great if we vote to leave the EU that he'd hold a Budget with cuts and tax rises almost immediately.
So in one sentence you are arguing that the things that were said would happen but have not is only because we haven't left yet. But then you happily point at this [/color]
Quote:[color=black] as being proof of the doom become reality, yet as you point out we haven't left yet so it can not be anything to do with the out vote. Its got the grubby fingerprints of market spiv bankers all over it.
But yes mtread is right, the pound has fallen sharply,
Quote:DC didn’t think the referendum would be a problem, whereas in fact it ended his premiership and his political career.
Hes doing alright now, I wonder if we are all still in it together ?
In November, a report claimed Mr Cameron is charging up to £120,000 for one hour long talks, equating to £2,000 per minute
And his mateAfter being sacked as Chancellor of the Exchequer, parliamentary records revealed George Osborne earned £320,000 from giving speeches in the US.
Re: Great interview - pilninggas - 09-12-16
I was always aware that we would need to trigger Article 50 of LT and then there is a 2 year period of decoupling. I'm sure some didn't know that though.
Just like there were plenty of remain voters who didn't know that the European Court of Auditors refused to sign off the blocks finances for the 21st time last year. And that worse still the EU's accounts were double even the worst case limit. No reforms were put forward about how to fix this, none. All these noisy, pious remainers won't discuss that the numbers (euro144bn) or the institutional reasons it couldn't sort this out. That's our taxes (not the net receivers; OURS, D, F, Benelux, SE and DE). Where were all the noisy bandwagon remainers when year on year these figures came out. Nowhere, their mates were doing well, directly or via qaungos.
Wht was more than 3.6% of payments to landowners (remember CAP) ripped off? why couldnt the spineless eurocrats root this out?
Why was the EU so keen to fund airports where there was no demand, loads of money down a bottomless pit. Eurocrats were laughing as being far removed from revenue sources just couldn't get their pants pulled down.
It's not unusual for EU projects to mislay 50% of expenditure. Are we talking about Brussels or Berberati? (sorry CAR didn't mean to slur you be comparing with EU).
The EU was criticised not so long ago for it's '7 year stretches', it takes 2-3 times longer than national governments to change responding to outside developments, on paper it should be quicker, but it isn't.
I was out campaigning for leave, when some remainer (weren't called that then) came and gave me a ball of abuse ("Your racist, a fascist etc") and told me that if we left the EU, then animals would suffer as 'we didn't have our own animal welfare laws'. I wanted to get into a debate, but when someone slurs you it isn't worth it. So I just asked him if he realised that the EU, in the Basque region (lovely area btw) alone, the previous year had given euro15m to protect bullfighting? As usual he seemed to know all the good the EU (or is reported to do) and little of the wastage or immoral expenditure (cultural it may be, but the locals need to fund it if it suits them). The silly sod should see farming in Bulgaria or Romania to see how the EU isn't helping animal welfare where it needs it.
The EU really isn't up to it. I wonder how many ardent remainers can name the Commisioners without rushing to wikipedia? If they could name 6 and what they actually do, I might listen, but it's yet to happen.
Re: Great interview - fazersharp - 09-12-16
Quote:and told me that if we left the EU, then animals would suffer as 'we didn't have our own animal welfare laws'.
All we will need to do is adopt the good ones (legislation ) into our own law and chuck out the stupid ones we don't want. Others we will be free to amend before we make them ours.
Re: Great interview - pilninggas - 09-12-16
(09-12-16, 08:54 PM)fazersharp link Wrote:Quote:and told me that if we left the EU, then animals would suffer as 'we didn't have our own animal welfare laws'.
All we will need to do is adopt the good ones (legislation ) into our own law and chuck out the stupid ones we don't want. Others we will be free to amend before we make them ours.
We have perfectly good laws, some of which are ancient. We can cherry pick the best ones the EU has when we leave (we can even use emerging EU laws, outside of the EU, no big deal, if they are appropriate [e,g, for tech or automotive]). It's all tiresome scaremongering by thickos.
Re: Great interview - cl1ve2004 - 09-12-16
Life will go on whether in or out of the E.U...when we are all dead n buried the hole E.U. thing won't amount to a hill
of beans coz the generations that follow after us will have a totally different set of problems to sort out :eek
The referendum on the E.U. will be another 1 pager in a schoolkids history book just like the corn laws etc..
Bah Humbug :rollin
Re: Great interview - Graham53 - 09-12-16
Personally I'm bored with it all now , time to just get it over and with deal with the fallout and show the world we are ready to rebuild this country right now we are being laughed at by Europe at how ridiculous we look over this.
If Brexit does mean Brexit , letting Europe know what we will accept before the negotiations is stupid as would be accepting them without letting the country know first.
As is showing the rest of the world just how disorganised and disfunctional we are over this, it must really inspire confidence with the world that any future investment or trade deals would be successful.
But first job for fucks sake get rid of Boris the Blustering bullshitting buffoon, he must have something on Theresa May to get and stay in that job
The man is an embarrassment
Re: Great interview - mtread - 09-12-16
Yes letting Europe know before the negotiations what we want is stupid, but on the other hand pretending can cherry pick without giving way is also stupid. 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'Red White and Blue Brexit' are just bullshit to keep quiet UKIP and the Tory extreme right. The EU holds 4 Aces, and we have a pair of 2s.
Re: Great interview - VNA - 10-12-16
Quote:As is showing the rest of the world just how disorganised and disfunctional we are over this, it must really inspire confidence with the world that any future investment or trade deals would be successful.
It's a disaster and the whole world I suspect is indeed having a good laugh at us.
Our government has held a referendum that it promised in order to pull it’s party together to win an election. They’ve given us a referendum that they would rather not have and worse have got the result they thought they’d never get. Now the nasty folks are back in charge of the nasty party. Thing is they don’t have a plan either cos they never thought it would happen and are making it up as they go along.
Nobody in this government has a fucking clue what they are doing. It’s a comedy.
I mean look at this week, 11 supreme court judges sitting to hear a case as to whether or not the Prime Minister can trigger article 50, when we all no know that parliament if asked will vote it through.
Is this how our government intends to proceed? Have the supreme court sit at a cost of millions upon millions to decide on a point that is no longer relevant.
Meanwhile my country voted decisively to remain. Many of my fellow countrymen tell me that if we had of voted in 2014 to leave the UK it would have been a disaster. I point out to them that if we had voted to leave the UK and become a proper nation, well right now we wouldn’t have a Tory government and we wouldn’t be getting dragged out of Europe against our will. I think some will soon change their minds, particularly considering that voting for the Union was meant to be a guarantee of EU membership.
Re: Great interview - Graham53 - 10-12-16
i personally think that Cameron promised the referendum in an attempt to get a majority government instead of a coalition and never thought he'd loose.
Trouble was he came back promising reform and made himself look stupid, his deal was smoke and mirrors, and yer average joe voter wanted reform on free movement, benefit claiming, health tourism, housing and security from euro criminals and terror and they got nothing.
Whether it's right or wrong (I don't know ) I think people saw Eu nationals getting council houses , claiming benefits , merkel opening the doors to millions who soon would by eligible to free movement, the jungle in Calais and lots of other negatives about Europe and felt we had no control over it and took the gamble on the future of the country because they were concerned about its future with those negatives.
Free movement of labour is a good idea in principle but it is flawed and needs reform and control and that imho is the key.
Re: Great interview - mtread - 10-12-16
But you can't have free access to the EU market (including the financial market) without free movement of people. They will not budge on that, and why should they? So it looks like we are left trading with the likes of Saudi Arabia and Taiwan (assuming they can shut Boris up).
My guess is that we will technically leave the EU but we will be allowed some sort of associate membership....... where very little will change.....
Re: Great interview - VNA - 10-12-16
The simple fact is though that we need immigrants. We have an ageing population and need younger workers coming in. Right now in Scotland we are short of nursing staff, if England pulls us out of the EU that’s only going to get worse.
Interestingly enough one of the assurances Nissan was looking for from the UK government was on free movement. For engineering and design staff Nissan wants access to the whole EU market, they want to pick the best people from across the EU. You have to remember what companies like Nissan are here for. They set up in the UK to access the UK and EU markets without trading restrictions. If we back off from the single market, then many of these companies will move from our shores and locate in the free market.
As for
Quote: reform on free movement, benefit claiming, health tourism, housing and security from euro criminals and terror and they got nothing.
Well this is the fear peddled by the right-wing press. There may be some issues and reform required but the reality is it’s small beer.
What we need more than ever is tax reform. We need to make sure that the big multi-nationals pay their taxes. We are being short changed by big business to the tune of billions upon billions of pounds. Whilst our government caves in other countries like France are making moves to see that the big companies pay their dues. We need tax reform across the EU, and we have a better chance of achieving it within the EU.
Meanwhile Nigel Farage states he’s more interested in a race to the bottom. He wants to cut corporation tax to attract more companies to the UK. Twat.
Again, our country and economy is not in a mess because of the EU, it’s in a mess because of successive incompetent self-serving UK governments.
Re: Great interview - fazersharp - 10-12-16
(10-12-16, 12:40 PM)VNA link Wrote: The simple fact is though that we need immigrants. Right now in Scotland we are short of nursing staff, if England pulls us out of the EU that’s only going to get worse.In areas like nursing where we need the skills we will obviously have separate rules, we are not going to cut our noses off to spite our face.
Where I do agree though is that all past governments have been shit and self serving.
I wonder how much of your anti leave stance is because you see it by way of a means to which scotland can argue having another go at leaving the UK.
I think there should be another scottish referendum but this time allow all of the uk to vote, I would vote for you to leave then we can have back our daylight that you steel from us every October 30th
Re: Great interview - VNA - 10-12-16
Since Thatcher was elected in 1979, we have pursued the neoliberal agenda and ordinary working people have been disadvantaged. Our infrastructure and services have been privatised, to the extent that much is owned by foreign companies, interestingly enough quite a few of them being foreign state owned companies.
The obsession with private money and self-regulation has proved disastrous.
Our public housing stock has largely gone, what is left is usually the unsellable crap that should perhaps never have been built. (which we resent refuges taking shelter in) Many moan about the benefits budget in the UK, a huge proportion of which goes on housing benefits. And the truth of that is that the biggest benefits claimants are the stinking rich private DHS slum landlords.
Having destroyed our industry, destroyed our unions, sold our homes, privatised our infrastructure, the working man is left a prisoner to his inflated mortgage or rent and zero hours contracts. But hey, it’s all OK, cos David Cameron’s big society is there to pick up the pieces with food banks for us to fall back on just in case we are literally starving.
Meanwhile in the UK the more you earn the less tax you pay. In fact, the biggest companies operating in the UK don’t pay any tax at all.
And who is to blame for all this? Well apparently, it’s benefits cheats, it’s refugees (the victims of our deeply flawed and immoral foreign policy and arms sales.)
And now of course it’s the EU.