Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Random starting problem - Printable Version

+- Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb)
+-- Forum: General (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=65)
+--- Forum: General (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=69)
+--- Thread: Random starting problem (/showthread.php?tid=76033)

Pages: 1 2

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 20-07-16

(20-07-16, 05:35 PM)clayt74 link Wrote: [quote author=clayt74 link=topic=20471.msg236101#msg23610mickvp1 date=1467650470]
It's unlikely to be the solenoid, if it was stuck there would be no noise and jump leads wouldn't make a difference. The solenoid needs very little current to operate. More likely to be the starter motor stalling when in certain positions.

I really hope the battery does sort it for you!
But I would have thought a battery issue would be a more  regular fault rather than an intermittent one?
If it doesn't sort it, I still think starter motor. Good luck
[/quote]


I think yesterday the heat just killed it.
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.

Re: Random starting problem - pete786.u - 20-07-16

Probably a long shot but a mate of mine had trouble starting his car, bought a new battery but it cured nothing, turned out it was a bad earth, might worth checking.

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 20-07-16

(20-07-16, 08:42 PM)pete786.u link Wrote: Probably a long shot but a mate of mine had trouble starting his car, bought a new battery but it cured nothing, turned out it was a bad earth, might worth checking.

Cheers, i will bear that in mind if this doesn't work out.  :thumbup

Re: Random starting problem - Fazerider - 20-07-16

(20-07-16, 06:27 PM)darrsi link Wrote: We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 21-07-16

(20-07-16, 11:11 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237643#msg237643 date=1469035624]
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.
[/quote]


Did that yesterday.
Battery was on charge all night beforehand.
Went out to check at lunch time, off was 12.4v, engine on bounced around 12.58v, then after about 3mins of engine running i switched it off and it was then 12.6+ volts.
So it is getting a charge to it because it was higher volts at the end of the 3mins, but obviously not holding it too well, or as suggested i've got a dud cell and it's just not behaving normally.
I ride with both headlights on so they will be pulling down a bit of power as well.
If the battery gets there before lunch i'll fit it and test again, apparently new batteries come 75% dry charged and are basically ready to go from new once assembled, although i have access to untold chargers at work so may put it on a very low amp booster charge if it arrives early enough.

Re: Random starting problem - Fazerider - 21-07-16

(21-07-16, 06:26 AM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=Fazerider link=topic=20471.msg237672#msg237672 date=1469052674]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237643#msg237643 date=1469035624]
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.
[/quote]


Did that yesterday.
Battery was on charge all night beforehand.
Went out to check at lunch time, off was 12.4v, engine on bounced around 12.58v, then after about 3mins of engine running i switched it off and it was then 12.6+ volts.
So it is getting a charge to it because it was higher volts at the end of the 3mins, but obviously not holding it too well, or as suggested i've got a dud cell and it's just not behaving normally.
I ride with both headlights on so they will be pulling down a bit of power as well.
If the battery gets there before lunch i'll fit it and test again, apparently new batteries come 75% dry charged and are basically ready to go from new once assembled, although i have access to untold chargers at work so may put it on a very low amp booster charge if it arrives early enough.
[/quote]

Ah. Fair enough.
A measurement after it failed to start would have been more definitive, but 12.4v just a few hours after a run does sound poor.
My money had been on the starter motor. Smile

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 21-07-16

(21-07-16, 08:08 AM)Fazerider link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237680#msg237680 date=1469078816]
[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=20471.msg237672#msg237672 date=1469052674]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237643#msg237643 date=1469035624]
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.
[/quote]


Did that yesterday.
Battery was on charge all night beforehand.
Went out to check at lunch time, off was 12.4v, engine on bounced around 12.58v, then after about 3mins of engine running i switched it off and it was then 12.6+ volts.
So it is getting a charge to it because it was higher volts at the end of the 3mins, but obviously not holding it too well, or as suggested i've got a dud cell and it's just not behaving normally.
I ride with both headlights on so they will be pulling down a bit of power as well.
If the battery gets there before lunch i'll fit it and test again, apparently new batteries come 75% dry charged and are basically ready to go from new once assembled, although i have access to untold chargers at work so may put it on a very low amp booster charge if it arrives early enough.
[/quote]

Ah. Fair enough.
A measurement after it failed to start would have been more definitive, but 12.4v just a few hours after a run does sound poor.
My money had been on the starter motor. Smile
[/quote]


Battery arrived this morning, and on charge on my work bench now, i'll put it in later and do a voltage check again.

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 21-07-16

Old battery


12.4v off
12.58v with engine and headlights on
Didn't test with headlights off
12.6v when engine turned off


New battery


13.1v off
12.75 with engine and headlights on
14.1v with headlights off
13.15v when engine turned off


These voltages were measured with the bike just ticking over, both times for around 3-5mins.


Hopefully the old battery was just getting a bit tired and the new one will sort things out.
I always ride with both headlights on, but now know to definitely have them switched off when starting the bike.

Re: Random starting problem - Grahamm - 21-07-16

A bit late now, but it's always worth popping round to a friendly local garage and getting them to put a Drop Tester on the battery which will quickly let you know if you have a dead cell :thumbup

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 22-07-16

(21-07-16, 11:32 PM)Grahamm link Wrote: A bit late now, but it's always worth popping round to a friendly local garage and getting them to put a Drop Tester on the battery which will quickly let you know if you have a dead cell :thumbup


What's that then..........a friendly local garage???
I live in London.  :lol

Re: Random starting problem - clayt74 - 22-07-16

Well battery all looks good now! The big question everyone is waiting for........is is it fixed?????
I really hope so!!! I hate random problems,they grind you down Sad

Re: Random starting problem - Skippernick - 22-07-16

Hope he's not busy trying to jump start it.

Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 22-07-16

All great so far  :woot


Now i don't think it's my imagination, but the bike just feels generally better in running as well?
My understanding was once the bike is started the battery didn't really do much after that, but this morning and on the way home tonight it felt better without a doubt.
Is it possible that a good fully charged battery can do this?
The weather yesterday was not too different from today so conditions are more or less the same.

Re: Random starting problem - Val - 07-08-16

(21-07-16, 06:26 AM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=Fazerider link=topic=20471.msg237672#msg237672 date=1469052674]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237643#msg237643 date=1469035624]
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.
[/quote]

Did that yesterday.
Battery was on charge all night beforehand.
Went out to check at lunch time, off was 12.4v, engine on bounced around 12.58v, then after about 3mins of engine running i switched it off and it was then 12.6+ volts.
So it is getting a charge to it because it was higher volts at the end of the 3mins, but obviously not holding it too well, or as suggested i've got a dud cell and it's just not behaving normally.
I ride with both headlights on so they will be pulling down a bit of power as well.
If the battery gets there before lunch i'll fit it and test again, apparently new batteries come 75% dry charged and are basically ready to go from new once assembled, although i have access to untold chargers at work so may put it on a very low amp booster charge if it arrives early enough.
[/quote]

I had random starting issues last month - industrial amounts of Halfords contact cleaner in the ignition barrel has sorted the problem and now it starts on the buton.

If I am you I would check that battery myself:

Starting Load Test
  • Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).
  • Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals. (positive to positive and negative to negative)
  • Watch the voltmeter as you start your motorcycle.
  • If the voltage drops below 9.5 volts, the battery has very low capacity and should be replaced.
Charging System Test
  • Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).
  • Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals.  (positive to positive and negative to negative)
  • Start your motorcycle.
  • Bring engine RPM's up to approximately 3,000
  • Compare the voltage reading to the specification in your owner's manual.
    (Note:the voltage reading should be approx. 13.8 - 14.5 volts to properly charge an AGM battery.)
From your measuramnets above I see 12ish volts when engine on - that is not enough to charge the battery means your reg/rec is gone IMO.


Re: Random starting problem - darrsi - 07-08-16

(07-08-16, 07:41 PM)Val link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237680#msg237680 date=1469078816]
[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=20471.msg237672#msg237672 date=1469052674]
[quote author=darrsi link=topic=20471.msg237643#msg237643 date=1469035624]
We deal with lots of batteries at work so the engineers have a good knowledge of their behaviour, and one of them is totally convinced i have a dud cell.
I have no reason to not believe him.
Should be delivered tomorrow and hopefully he'll be proven right.
A bit late now since you've spent yer money, but a few seconds work with a voltmeter might have been informative.
[/quote]

Did that yesterday.
Battery was on charge all night beforehand.
Went out to check at lunch time, off was 12.4v, engine on bounced around 12.58v, then after about 3mins of engine running i switched it off and it was then 12.6+ volts.
So it is getting a charge to it because it was higher volts at the end of the 3mins, but obviously not holding it too well, or as suggested i've got a dud cell and it's just not behaving normally.
I ride with both headlights on so they will be pulling down a bit of power as well.
If the battery gets there before lunch i'll fit it and test again, apparently new batteries come 75% dry charged and are basically ready to go from new once assembled, although i have access to untold chargers at work so may put it on a very low amp booster charge if it arrives early enough.
[/quote]

I had random starting issues last month - industrial amounts of Halfords contact cleaner in the ignition barrel has sorted the problem and now it starts on the buton.

If I am you I would check that battery myself:

Starting Load Test
  • Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).
  • Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals. (positive to positive and negative to negative)
  • Watch the voltmeter as you start your motorcycle.
  • If the voltage drops below 9.5 volts, the battery has very low capacity and should be replaced.
Charging System Test
  • Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).
  • Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals.  (positive to positive and negative to negative)
  • Start your motorcycle.
  • Bring engine RPM's up to approximately 3,000
  • Compare the voltage reading to the specification in your owner's manual.
    (Note:the voltage reading should be approx. 13.8 - 14.5 volts to properly charge an AGM battery.)
From your measuramnets above I see 12ish volts when engine on - that is not enough to charge the battery means your reg/rec is gone IMO.
[/quote]


Measurements were at tickover, a bit of throttle and the figures would've risen.


New battery sorted it anyway, and i've now got in the habit of starting the bike with the lights off to ease the strain.
I should've checked the voltages with the heated grips on as well, they'll probably drain more than the lights i'd imagine.