(02-07-15, 04:48 PM)nick crisp link Wrote: [quote author=midden link=topic=17525.msg202007#msg202007 date=1435848525]
LATE ENTRY:: 
More weight over the front wheel resulting from the nose dive (forks compressing) helps the bike slow quicker.
Does your front often bottom out? [b]Back wheel feel like it's leaving the road, skipping sideways?  If yes to either then compression is probably too soft.

Quote:But as you met ion it feels harsh over poor rutted ground (I presume you're still talking about the front)  this is indication of compression too hard.  Oh a contradiction.

Quote:Also when riding give this a go...........DON'T PANIC  :eek

(02-07-15, 05:00 PM)midden link Wrote: My main advise is to renew the oil working on the basis that over time it most probably has lost its full efficiency. So to replace with the original spec 10w should in theory return damping to its original. Perhaps by slowing or smoothing the dive without reducing it.    Going 15w could compensate any wear in the springs without going straight to the next problem of what rating spring should I go for. Which to me sounds like a minefield of opinions. Also since you found it springy when you first got it 15w may have helped then.  I think if it does end up feeling too firm you might get away with taking a little out of each stanchion (how say others on this)

I have two bottles of unopened 10w oil which I got on the panic of my weight  making the front jumpy but as yet haven't used it due to this argument of putting 15w in. I should be a real candidate for the heavier oil but I rarely bottom out, if indeed I actually have and I improved things by lowering the preload from hardest setting.

(02-07-15, 06:20 PM)slimwilly link Wrote: Nick did you see my forks dive on entry to that one bend,,oh so did yours ,oh and also PieEaters ,a hell of a lot of late braking going on there

(02-07-15, 06:20 PM)slimwilly link Wrote: Nick did you see my forks dive on entry to that one bend,,oh so did yours ,oh and also PieEaters ,a hell of a lot of late braking going on there

(02-07-15, 06:55 PM)Frosties link Wrote: Ahaaaaaa - nope, no way Nick. Got an all singing/dancing 2 way upgraded Nitron rear shock fitted so  :2fingers

(02-07-15, 07:00 PM)Frosties link Wrote: Orrrrrrrrrrrr, I could see if a certain someone wants to swap his Gen1 for it  Nick knows which one...........and it's yellow!

(02-07-15, 08:06 PM)noggythenog link Wrote: Darrah!!!!!.......cheeky old foccers :grumble  What's a Darrah when it's at home ?


I do ask for it though :\  You weren't around so it was open season  :lol

Im no physicist but i always thought that more transferred weight on the front equaled stronger braking......and having a soft spring would allow more transfer of that weight downwards towards the wheel and tarmac as oppose to having for example absolutely no springs whereby allot of the energy would be transferred forward.....but not so much downward....but that is noggy science which is completely unreliable......because energy always transfers from one form to another so if some is still going forward and some going downwards then surely making more go downwards is a better thing......ok the brakes are taking off forward energy....but surely the suspension is also taking off forward energy....after all suspension isnt friction free....surely the more things taking off energy equals less energy going forward and that means stopping sooner.

Oh foc im confused :o :\ :o :\ :o

:lurk

(02-07-15, 07:05 PM)nick crisp link Wrote: [quote author=slimwilly link=topic=17525.msg202022#msg202022 date=1435857654]
Nick did you see my forks dive on entry to that one bend,,oh so did yours ,oh and also PieEaters ,a hell of a lot of late braking going on there

(02-07-15, 06:55 PM)Frosties link Wrote: Ahaaaaaa - nope, no way Nick. Got an all singing/dancing 2 way upgraded Nitron rear shock fitted so  :2fingers

(02-07-15, 07:00 PM)Frosties link Wrote: Orrrrrrrrrrrr, I could see if a certain someone wants to swap his Gen1 for it  Nick knows which one...........and it's yellow!

(02-07-15, 08:41 PM)Frosties link Wrote: Ahhh ok, slap an R6 shock on me Tiger - Righto  :lol

(02-07-15, 08:45 PM)Dead Eye link Wrote: With stiff suspension, you are instantly planting the force on the tyre and it could be potentially hazardous if the force is applied too quickly.
Disclaimer as always that I have no idea what shit I'm chatting about... just like noggy...

(02-07-15, 08:55 PM)nick crisp link Wrote: [quote author=Frosties link=topic=17525.msg202064#msg202064 date=1435866073]
Ahhh ok, slap an R6 shock on me Tiger - Righto  :lol

(02-07-15, 09:05 PM)noggythenog link Wrote: Depends what you prioritise.....absorption, braking, handling......either way i think improving 1 will adversely affect another.

I think you're like me (only slimmer) but in the opposite direction and perhaps need some different springs.

I might then start adjusting oils...but only as a complement to the main solution.

(02-07-15, 08:45 PM)Dead Eye link Wrote: With stiff suspension, you are instantly planting the force on the tyre and it could be potentially hazardous if the force is applied too quickly. With soft suspension, you are using up suspension travel before you get effective braking - the mass of the bike is trying to outrun the front wheel and so the nose dives compressing the suspension. Once the suspension is compressed you are getting full braking performance acting on the entirety of the bikes momentum.

With stiff front suspension or no front suspension the forces from body weight would be pushing the bars forward, past/over the top of the wheel instead of down on to the wheel.  Noggy seems to compensate his stiff forks by lowering the front (raising stanchions) thus directing his weight on to the wheel before breaking. Safe or truly effective who really knows )bet the wrists suffer though).

I presume the addition of  spacers/washers will be the same as adjusting preload so should in theory change the ride one way or the other. Definitely worth trying with obvious caution.

another option would be if possible to swap the forks for some from a later model tiger. Price permitting.  I read somewhere the mistake triumph made on the earlier tigers was trying to make it dual purpose with more enthasis on off road, which it never really cut the mustard. On later models though they steered away from the off road side to make it more road friendly.


Disclaimer as always that I have no idea what shit I'm chatting about... just like noggy...

(02-07-15, 11:04 AM)sadlonelygit link Wrote: can excessive fork dive affect braking...............no
you have brake discs of a given size and a maximum amount of hydraulic pressure generated by the master cylinder.
what it will affect is the steering (change of trail/rake) and at max compression the ability to absorb a bump shock.
measure the amount of travel used with a cable tie around the fork, if you are using all the travel then either preload the spring or fit a firmer one until you have @15mm travel left after max compression.
but tbh they're a pig on stilts anyway :rollin

(03-07-15, 09:03 AM)maxzer1500 link Wrote:   Just a few observations, forgetting about ride quality as the subject is heavy braking. Too soft is not ideal, too hard is ok except it don't leave anything for bump absorbtion. 2 stage braking is good for both situations, i agree some weight transfer is good but think weight is naturally going to the front anyway, racers brake hard but they squeeze the brake not slam it on. If fork dive was such a good thing then non telescopic front fork bikes ( for example some bmw's ) would not have such stable/safe braking, bmw seem to be using more conventional teles on their bikes now but most likely for cost/marketing reasons rather than thinking them inferior. I would go for 15wt oil with a couple of washers in each side, the springs would have to be very soft to get anything like a 2'' spacer in. If you use 10wt you have the satisfaction of having nice fresh oil but the end result is going to be pretty much the same. I won't go into oil level as i don't want the oil level police's comments.

(03-07-15, 02:10 PM)Frosties link Wrote: [quote author=maxzer1500 link=topic=17525.msg202117#msg202117 date=1435910615]
  Just a few observations, forgetting about ride quality as the subject is heavy braking. Too soft is not ideal, too hard is ok except it don't leave anything for bump absorbtion. 2 stage braking is good for both situations, i agree some weight transfer is good but think weight is naturally going to the front anyway, racers brake hard but they squeeze the brake not slam it on. If fork dive was such a good thing then non telescopic front fork bikes ( for example some bmw's ) would not have such stable/safe braking, bmw seem to be using more conventional teles on their bikes now but most likely for cost/marketing reasons rather than thinking them inferior. I would go for 15wt oil with a couple of washers in each side, the springs would have to be very soft to get anything like a 2'' spacer in. If you use 10wt you have the satisfaction of having nice fresh oil but the end result is going to be pretty much the same. I won't go into oil level as i don't want the oil level police's comments.

(06-07-15, 10:29 PM)Punkstig link Wrote: If excessive dive wasn't an issue then 'anti dive' systems would never have been created!

It's not just braking the suspension affects, it makes a massive difference to corner handling too, it's only at major lean angles where frame/swingarm flex comes into play on that front!