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+--- Thread: Increase in MPG/K&N (/showthread.php?tid=67029)
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 08:21 AM)richfzs link Wrote: Interesting read, thanks midden. I think the engineering within, and forces on, the tyre, are somewhat different from the truck tyres discussed to ours though! A touch tyre starts out with a huge tread depth for starters (sure someone will know how deep), so a very different thing.
There's no way you can compare car/truck tyres against a bike tyre as bike tyres barely touch the ground so have much less drag, hence the reason cars are so much better around corners, the reason they benefit is because they have the bigger engine to compensate, and also why fitting larger tyres to your bike is not necessarily such a good thing.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
From my first post I still a question.
What I want to know is why did they tune the fazer to run rich, there must of been a good reason, so by fitting a K&N are you not "braking" the tuning the factory made.
I've only just changed my filter at 16,000 miles to another OEM one, and didn't notice any difference in performance,
So far I only read darrsi has seen a difference in performance with the K&N filter has anyone else seen a difference?.
My brain cogs are thinking if I saw no difference from a 16000k - 15 year old one to new oem then why would I expect to see a difference from an original to a K&N, I fear that any difference felt is physiological.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 01:17 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: From my first post I still a question.
What I want to know is why did they tune the fazer to run rich, there must of been a good reason, so by fitting a K&N are you not "braking" the tuning the factory made.
I've only just changed my filter at 16,000 miles to another OEM one, and didn't notice any difference in performance,
So far I only read darrsi has seen a difference in performance with the K&N filter has anyone else seen a difference?.
My brain cogs are thinking if I saw no difference from a 16000k - 15 year old one to new oem then why would I expect to see a difference from an original to a K&N, I fear that any difference felt is physiological.
The K&N isn't as filtered as other brands, it literally lets more air in and these bikes seem to love it.
As to why they were originally rich, who knows, but the fact is they work really well with only positive side effects.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
Yep I hear you.
But is there anyone else on this forum who has fitted one (on a fzs 600 ) and seen a difference.
You see I am biased because I have just fitted an OEM one and dont want to feel ive made ---- not a mistake, but missed a trick by not fitting a K&N one, And so far there is only one person saying they saw a difference.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - Fazerider - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 01:17 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: From my first post I still a question.
What I want to know is why did they tune the fazer to run rich, there must of been a good reason, so by fitting a K&N are you not "braking" the tuning the factory made.
I've only just changed my filter at 16,000 miles to another OEM one, and didn't notice any difference in performance,
So far I only read darrsi has seen a difference in performance with the K&N filter has anyone else seen a difference?.
My brain cogs are thinking if I saw no difference from a 16000k - 15 year old one to new oem then why would I expect to see a difference from an original to a K&N, I fear that any difference felt is physiological.
I agree, it's psychological (assuming that's what you meant). A filter that is less restrictive won't alter the fuel/air ratio and the amount of work the engine has to do to pull air through the filter is trivial. It will make a difference at the top end of the engine's performance where it will make a couple of extra horsepower available (with a corresponding increase in fuel consumption).
I neglected the air filter on my bike for many years, it probably did about 80,000 miles in that time. There was no detectable change in mpg when I put the new one in.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
physiological. ---------------- it wasnt me that spelt it wrong it was the spell cheque !!!!
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 01:32 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: Yep I hear you.
But is there anyone else on this forum who has fitted one (on a fzs 600 ) and seen a difference.
You see I am biased because I have just fitted an OEM one and dont want to feel ive made ---- not a mistake, but missed a trick by not fitting a K&N one, And so far there is only one person saying they saw a difference.
You still don't believe me do you? :lol
If anything it's worth getting just to save money, 'cos it'll be the last one you buy for the bike!
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - dcurzon - 23-01-14
Sure, I failed to mention other factors that may have effected it, fact is they have only just sprung to mind.
My bike has 48,000 miles on it, I purchased it at 44,000 miles
When I changed the filter, the oem filter had writing showing the mileage it was fitted. But it had 2 lots of mileages, which makes me think that it was fitted at 21,000 miles, then cleaned and refitted at 33,000.
Retrospectively, I would think this to be the major contributor - reused oem filter.
But who cares? Bike feels livelier and I don't need to look at the filter until I hit 100k on the mileage!
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
Quote:You still don't believe me do you? [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img]No and neither does Fazerider
(23-01-14, 01:44 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: I agree, it's psychological (assuming that's what you meant). A filter that is less restrictive won't alter the fuel/air ratio and the amount of work the engine has to do to pull air through the filter is trivial. It will make a difference at the top end of the engine's performance where it will make a couple of extra horsepower available (with a corresponding increase in fuel consumption).
I neglected the air filter on my bike for many years, it probably did about 80,000 miles in that time. There was no detectable change in mpg when I put the new one in.
I think the OEM one will be the last one I buy for the bike 16000 miles over 15 rears till first change so my next will be at 32000 miles in the year 2029
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 03:04 PM)fazersharp link Wrote:Quote:You still don't believe me do you? [img alt=:lol]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/img]No and neither does Fazerider
(23-01-14, 01:44 PM)Fazerider link Wrote: I agree, it's psychological (assuming that's what you meant). A filter that is less restrictive won't alter the fuel/air ratio and the amount of work the engine has to do to pull air through the filter is trivial. It will make a difference at the top end of the engine's performance where it will make a couple of extra horsepower available (with a corresponding increase in fuel consumption).
I neglected the air filter on my bike for many years, it probably did about 80,000 miles in that time. There was no detectable change in mpg when I put the new one in.
I think the OEM one will be the last one I buy for the bike 16000 miles over 15 rears till first change so my next will be at 32000 miles in the year 2029
I think i've walked more miles than that at work over that period of time! :lol
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - Yamazer-92 - 23-01-14
I got a K & N after seeing Darrsi's write up about is and I honestly did notice a considerable difference. Partly that was due to the filter I removed being covered in emulsified oil along with most of the bottom of my air box. I think whoever last replaced the filter had put waaaaayyyyyy too much oil on the foam bit and it had gone everywhere or mixed with some water somehow. After cleaning all that up and putting the K&N in the bike ran superb and low down grunt was vastly improved. It really struggled pulling away previously. I don't look at or record the mpg, its good so that's all I need to know. I agree with his statement about throttle response as well, felt nice and crisp where it felt very vague and hesitant before. Obviously, that is likely mostly down to having a load of crap in my air box but the K&N just looks a much better made product than the one I replaced which is now in a landfill somewhere along with all the other disposable ones everyone has got rid of.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
Yamazer-92 your testomony does not count because the OEM filter does not have oil in -or on it, so what you had was almost a complete air blockage due to the oil that shouldnt be there.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - Yamazer-92 - 23-01-14
When I bought the bike it had allegedly been fully serviced, although after having trouble pulling away and a few other issues I decided to inspect some parts myself and decided to service it properly. From what I could tell they hadn't serviced it at all and that was from a dealer. As for the oil in the air box, I have no idea why that got there or how but thankfully it's all gone now. It was emulsified and looked like mustard. It wasn't all over the air filter, just underneath it where the foam part is where it sits on the bottom of the air box. The air filter was quite dirty looking though. I think its a bit unfair to just fully discount what I've written anyway. If you mean its not really valid because I didn't ever have a fully new working OEM one to try then fair enough but the point still stands I put in the K & N about 4k miles ago and I have noticed a good positive improvement. For £30, if that's partly psychological then I'm not complaining as its going to last the life of the bike anyway.
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
I dont mean to be harsh its just when I read the 1st line of your post I thought Oh there you are fazersharp there is some more proof, (I want to be convinced) and then you say it was full of mayonase and gravey and mashed potato.
There is still only 1 person saying it made a difference :evil
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 08:17 PM)Yamazer-92 link Wrote: When I bought the bike it had allegedly been fully serviced, although after having trouble pulling away and a few other issues I decided to inspect some parts myself and decided to service it properly. From what I could tell they hadn't serviced it at all and that was from a dealer. As for the oil in the air box, I have no idea why that got there or how but thankfully it's all gone now. It was emulsified and looked like mustard. It wasn't all over the air filter, just underneath it where the foam part is where it sits on the bottom of the air box. The air filter was quite dirty looking though. I think its a bit unfair to just fully discount what I've written anyway. If you mean its not really valid because I didn't ever have a fully new working OEM one to try then fair enough but the point still stands I put in the K & N about 4k miles ago and I have noticed a good positive improvement. For £30, if that's partly psychological then I'm not complaining as its going to last the life of the bike anyway.
Like this:
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 08:43 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: I dont mean to be harsh its just when I read the 1st line of your post I thought Oh there you are fazersharp there is some more proof, (I want to be convinced) and then you say it was full of mayonase and gravey and mashed potato.
There is still only 1 person saying it made a difference :evil
Can you not add up, there's 3 people on this post alone blatantly saying it made a difference but you are choosing not to listen? :rolleyes
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - His Dudeness - 23-01-14
fight fight fight :lol
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 09:38 PM)His Dudeness link Wrote: fight fight fight :lol
I just don't get it, it's dcurzon's post praising them, everyone knows my thoughts anyway, then Yamazer-92 said how much he noticed a big difference, so how the foc is that one person? :lol
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - fazersharp - 23-01-14
1st of all what is that stuff and how does it happen.
And my question is about the suposed increase in power/ responce which dcurzon did not say anything about he only said about mpg which also has been debuncked.
yamazer-92 (in my mind) dont count as his 1st filter was blocked with custard anyway so of course hes going to see a difference.
That leaves 1 yay sayer ---- MR darrsi
Re: Increase in MPG/K&N - darrsi - 23-01-14
(23-01-14, 10:27 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: 1st of all what is that stuff and how does it happen.
And my question is about the suposed increase in power/ responce which dcurzon did not say anything about he only said about mpg which also has been debuncked.
yamazer-92 (in my mind) dont count as his 1st filter was blocked with custard anyway so of course hes going to see a difference.
That leaves 1 yay sayer ---- MR darrsi
Something to do with moisture mixing with oil vapours from the engine i think?
That was actually my bike.........and my finger.