+- Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb)
+-- Forum: Bikes, Hints'n'Tips (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=66)
+--- Forum: FZS600 Fazer (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=78)
+--- Thread: Clutch - Loud Noise (/showthread.php?tid=65738)
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - Fazerider - 03-10-13
(03-10-13, 06:51 AM)darrsi link Wrote: [quote author=Fazerider link=topic=10124.msg105425#msg105425 date=1380757145]
Mine had a similar problem a few years ago, the action felt rough through the lever too.
I found about half the ball bearings in the actuator were knackered. (It's easy to mash the heads of those two screws, heating the alloy casing up a bit first helps.) Luckily I had some bearings of the right size and the helical grooves in the mechanism weren't too badly affected… it's been OK since then.
Don't actually know what you mean, could you be a bit more specific please?
[/quote]
By "actuator" I meant the thing you can see in the photo above that converts the pull of the cable into a push on the push-rod.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 03-10-13
(03-10-13, 07:36 AM)CRH link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=10124.msg105435#msg105435 date=1380779518]
[quote author=Fazerider link=topic=10124.msg105425#msg105425 date=1380757145]
Mine had a similar problem a few years ago, the action felt rough through the lever too.
I found about half the ball bearings in the actuator were knackered. (It's easy to mash the heads of those two screws, heating the alloy casing up a bit first helps.) Luckily I had some bearings of the right size and the helical grooves in the mechanism weren't too badly affected… it's been OK since then.
Don't actually know what you mean, could you be a bit more specific please?
[/quote]....kin hell darrsi?...what he,s tellin ya is, ya ..balls" are foooked :'( so slap some ..grease on em?
[/quote]
Okey doke, i will grease my balls later then. :b
Got a feeling i may need to take a couple of mm of lever play away as well, as there may be a tad too much.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - CRH - 03-10-13
the very first week i had mine, stationary cold it was fine?..after a run when got hot it would click around that area, i too had the casing off ,cleaned all shit out and still it did it?...all i did was spray the actuator with copper grease worked it a few times and it went away!!..the spring looked very rusty and weak so replaced that too!!..only once since i did all that have i heard it again!...fazerider could be right it maybe that the innards need looking at?..but like he says them fkn screws are bstds to get out?...heat may help but they do round off easily!!...so be extra carefull doing it?
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - fazersharp - 03-10-13
Quote:they do round off easily!!...so be extra carefull doing itYep I can back that up, I swear they are made out of play doh. Look at my picture----now look again at the bottom screw,bast*rd it would not move.So gave up. Im guesing that they are also fixed with a very strong threadlock as you woulnot want them coming out and falling onto your sprocket
Once as clean as you see it, that is a ballbaring that is loose in the middle once all the old grease is removed with a cocktail stick. I let a little bit of ACF-50 go down there and then re grease as much as I could around the ballbaring and abit underneath
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - N A Chess - 03-10-13
Ho hum..........it has stopped doing it know. Honest. :rolleyes
The whole thing has been a complete mystery. But I think I'd go with Mr Gassitt's theory, and if it happens again, that is what I will work on.
Thanks for all you responses by the way
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 03-10-13
Mine hasn't stopped, it's clicking away like a good'un.
I adjusted the clutch lever play but that didn't make any difference.
I'll have it apart Saturday so i can give it all a proper clean and grease up. :\
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - N A Chess - 03-10-13
Don't forget the lower nipple/tab theory - that's my first port of call should it happen again :rolleyes
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 03-10-13
It'll have to be Saturday now for tweaking my nipple and greasing my balls :lol
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - unfazed - 04-10-13
No theory Darrsi, this happened me at the 40000 mile mark and drove me to distraction. :'( Eventually I bought a low mileage second hand cover for €20 and then dismantled the original one to see what was causing it. The grease in the mechanism had dried out causing the bearing to make a cracking sound and the end of the lever pull when full pressure was on them. As a few previous post have said the foccing bolts holding the mechanism in place must be made of play doh. If the heads do not chew up the bolts shear. I found that heating the cover and drilling a hole in the bolts with a left hand drill bit before trying to undo them usually spins them out. Replace them with real bolts
I eventually devised a method of regreasing the mechanism without having to dismantle it.
Remove the rubber plug and remove the lock nut.
Remove the sprocket cover and clutch cable
Remove the mechanism spring and push the lever up as far it will go
Turn the cover over and using spray grease, I used a molybdenum disulfide spray grease.
Spray the grease into the bearing spiral. you can just see the bearings and the spiral.
Operate the mechanism a few time to allow the grease to run down into the bearings and repeat the whole thing 3 or 4 times. There is a seal in the moving part of the mechanism this is supposed to prevent grease getting out or water getting in
Put it all back together and all is well. You may need to leave it for a while for the grease to settle.
Prior to putting on the locknut remove the adjusting screw and spray a bit of grease in to the hole as there is a bearing in there also.
If that does not solve it then remove the mechanism, dismantle it and replace all 16 bearings and the 2 play doh bolts with real ones.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 04-10-13
Well that is extremely helpful 'unfazed', thanks for that insight it's much appreciated, i couldn't find any info on what was inside the cover at all.
I've got a can of white grease, i may give it a go with that, otherwise i didn't realise there's loads of used sprocket covers for sale on Ebay.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - CRH - 04-10-13
(04-10-13, 07:03 AM)darrsi link Wrote: Well that is extremely helpful 'unfazed', thanks for that insight it's much appreciated, i couldn't find any info on what was inside the cover at all.....hey darrsi,...try this one on evilbay...181229968162...only 99p start bid
I've got a can of white grease, i may give it a go with that, otherwise i didn't realise there's loads of used sprocket covers for sale on Ebay.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 04-10-13
(04-10-13, 04:12 PM)CRH link Wrote: [quote author=darrsi link=topic=10124.msg105630#msg105630 date=1380866580]....hey darrsi,...try this one on evilbay...181229968162...only 99p start bid
Well that is extremely helpful 'unfazed', thanks for that insight it's much appreciated, i couldn't find any info on what was inside the cover at all.
I've got a can of white grease, i may give it a go with that, otherwise i didn't realise there's loads of used sprocket covers for sale on Ebay.
[/quote]
Cheers for that, i'll have a go at lubing it up tomorrow and make sure things are in order and if it doesn't work out then i'll look into getting another one.
My bike is in constant stop/start traffic so the chances are a used one will be better than mine anyway.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - fazersharp - 04-10-13
Unfazed well done and thank you for spending your time on taking and uploading the photos... brill !
Would it be possible to let us know what the screw size is as I dont think anyone is going the get them out in one peice and I would be handy to already have some new ones ready, And I would sugest that everyone also puts some thread loc on as you dont want then comming out and getting in your sprocket
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - unfazed - 04-10-13
Should have included the size. :rolleyes
Bolts they are M5 x 0.8 and are 9mm in length is is threaded the full length from the head of the bolt. The threaded hole on the sprocket cover is only 7.5mm deep and the mechanism is 2 mmm thick where the bolts are located. The best option is to use allen bolts as there is very little space. For those who have mangled the head of the bolts like I did a few times :eek , drill a 3 mm hole into the bolt with a left hand drill bit and if the bolt doe not spin out hammer a small torx bit into the hole while the bolt is still warm is the easiest way to undo them.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 04-10-13
(04-10-13, 10:37 PM)unfazed link Wrote: Should have included the size. :rolleyes
Bolts they are M5 x 0.8 and are 9mm in length is is threaded the full length from the head of the bolt. The threaded hole on the sprocket cover is only 7.5mm deep and the mechanism is 2 mmm thick where the bolts are located. The best option is to use allen bolts as there is very little space. For those who have mangled the head of the bolts like I did a few times :eek , drill a 3 mm hole into the bolt with a left hand drill bit and if the bolt doe not spin out hammer a small torx bit into the hole while the bolt is still warm is the easiest way to undo them.
Don't s'pose you would know bearing size?
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - fazersharp - 05-10-13
I have never heard of a left hand drill bit where do I get one of those
I see how it works - by cutting left the same way as undoing but I can just see myself drilling all the way through or snapping the drill and getting that stuck in there too!! (im a bit cack handed like that)
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - unfazed - 05-10-13
The diameter I got when I checked them was is 0.123 inches or 3.12 mm, there is probably a standard dimension close to that because when I took them into a bicycle shop and asked if they had any bearing like it he looked up a chart and had them in stock. They were the same size as the bearing in the rear bicycle sprockets used with the derailers
Left hand drill bits are available in most good tool shops and maybe Halfords. Use a variable speed drill with a reverse action and do not run the drill to fast. Take you time and apply pressure but do not force it and finally keep it straight. I used a normal black and decker battery operated drill with a fully charged battery. The top bolt is the most difficult due to its close proximity to the cover, just don't push the bit all the way into the chuck to give clearance from the cover edge.
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 06-10-13
Just got round to looking at the sprocket cover to investigate the clicking clutch.
After taking out the rubber bung from the cover it was noted that there was particles of rust sitting under the nut, which wasn't what i wanted to see.
So, i then followed 'unfazed' instructions and undid the nut then took off the sprocket cover, unbent the tab and released the cable and took the spring off.
If you look where the nut was and at the same time work the mechanism behind by hand you can actually see the bearings as it moves up and down.
I used brake cleaner spray at first to give it a good clean out whilst still working the mechanism up and down and the rust started pouring out, so just kept doing it until the liquid became clearer.
Then, using the same technique, i sprayed white grease into where the bearings are, still working the mechanism up and down until it appeared full, which was actually quite a lot of grease.
Whilst the cable was off i removed it from the top end and used some 3 in 1 oil to give it a good lubing until the cable movement inside felt very smooth.
After putting the cable back on the top end i screwed the cable housing in to leave a few millimeters gap so i could adjust it from the bottom end instead.
So after putting the cable, spring and sprocket cover back on you can then adjust the cable.
You need quite a deep angled 12mm ring spanner to do this.
The manual shows you what to do with a picture, but for the record, put the nut back on without tightening it up, then with a cross head screwdriver turn the centre screw all the way in until it stops then take it back out by a quarter of a turn then tighten the nut up with the ring spanner whilst holding the screw in position.
If it's still not quite right then you can adjust any slack at the lever end.
And then...........NO CLICKING and a very smooth clutch movement. :woot
I think it's another one of those things that creeps up on you so you don't really notice it, but if you've not ever checked it before, which is unlikely, then i would say it's definitely a job worth doing just for the sake of it.
Thanks to 'unfazed' again, as his instructions were very helpful
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - fazersharp - 06-10-13
Thats good news and good info on how to do it without trying to remove the two un-moveable screws. I think thats what you are saying
Re: Clutch - Loud Noise - darrsi - 06-10-13
(06-10-13, 09:29 PM)fazersharp link Wrote: Thats good news and good info on how to do it without trying to remove the two un-moveable screws. I think thats what you are saying
Yep, no need to touch them at all.