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+--- Thread: whose fault ? opinions ? (/showthread.php?tid=64174)
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Slaninar - 28-06-13
She's a bitch for not having stopped - to see if you're OK.
You're inexperienced:
1) too much speed
2) poor braking
What I see right and fair is her paying for motorcycle and health costs and you taking her out for a dinner and fucking her brains out in return.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - smithfz - 28-06-13
it was clearly the bug splat on the visor that blocked the car from view obviously the bikers fault... jeesh that was easy...
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - smithfz - 28-06-13
Did i forget to mention that it may have been wind direction, that can be a crucial factor in these situations...
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - slimwilly - 28-06-13
Now anyone watching can see why you have to ride as if everone is out to get you, so ====dont let them, just be more bloody careful.
A rider must look for all the ways a car is going to get them,,who gives a fuck whose fault it is,,the rider could be dead,,,,,,,not fun then is it.,,
Ride awake fellow fokkers
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - AdieR - 29-06-13
I think it's a mixture of fault.
The bike's speed may not have been excessive in numerical terms - but any decent middleweight bike will out-accelerate almost any car (thus, the car, having come out, was never going to be fast enough to get out of the bike's way). Along with that, a small, fast-moving bike is easily missed ("where the f**k did that come from?"). People often talk about a big bike having acceleration and power to get you out of trouble - but it can get you into it just as quickly; it works both ways.
It's also a busy road and quite possibly difficult for a driver to see over the top of the traffic that is there, however hard she looked - the rider should have accounted for that.
The fact that the car came out of a pub car park does not mean "she had a drink" either. The fact that the video states it's a pub car park suggests the rider is familiar with that road, and maybe should have accounted for that junction being there (and the possibility of traffic).
All said and done - that car could have been a child erratically running out onto that road - what then?
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Farjo - 29-06-13
From the video:
"If you want to know, her punishment was £130 driving lesson, no points nothing. Basically she has got away with it."
Driving is a licence to kill :\
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Andy FZS - 29-06-13
I witnessed a similar accident a few weeks ago. Waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic an oncoming car stopped and waived the car in front of me across straight into the path of another car in the inside lane. ...bang..as I was higher up I saw the car coming but the people in front and the moving on coming car saw each other too late.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Slaninar - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 02:09 AM)AdieR link Wrote: The fact that the video states it's a pub car park suggests the rider is familiar with that road, and maybe should have accounted for that junction being there (and the possibility of traffic).
Agree with most other things you wrote, but this is faulty logic: rider fell and had more than enough time to see what's around him. The fact he knew it was a pub parking doesn't tell anything about the time he came to that piece of information. ...I know, I know...
![[Image: 2pfg.jpg]](http://i.qkme.me/2pfg.jpg)
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Phil - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 08:10 AM)Andy FZS link Wrote: I witnessed a similar accident a few weeks ago. Waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic an oncoming car stopped and waived the car in front of me across straight into the path of another car in the inside lane. ...bang..as I was higher up I saw the car coming but the people in front and the moving on coming car saw each other too late.
I saw something similar along those lines recently. I was filtering past a queue of traffic at some lights and got up to where a road joined from the left with traffic emerging so stopped. The lights had changed ahead so the traffic ahead started moving, except for the car in front as she waved 1 car onto the road, which turned left so was also heading the same way as us. She also waved the next. It didnt move, presumably as the driver was unsighted. She waved harder. The car pulled out but turned right, into the path of an oncoming bus :eek . Luckily the driver saw the bus at the last second and stopped. The bus drivers face was a picture.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Lawrence - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 02:09 AM)AdieR link Wrote: It's also a busy road and quite possibly difficult for a driver to see over the top of the traffic that is there, however hard she looked - the rider should have accounted for that.So because you can't see well you just drive out? She should've edged out slowly til she could see it was clear.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Grahamm - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 10:16 AM)Lawrence link Wrote: [quote author=AdieR link=topic=8553.msg84456#msg84456 date=1372468184]So because you can't see well you just drive out? She should've edged out slowly til she could see it was clear.
It's also a busy road and quite possibly difficult for a driver to see over the top of the traffic that is there, however hard she looked - the rider should have accounted for that.
[/quote]
(29-06-13, 08:10 AM)Andy FZS link Wrote: I witnessed a similar accident a few weeks ago. Waiting to turn right across oncoming traffic an oncoming car stopped and waived the car in front of me across straight into the path of another car in the inside lane. ...bang..as I was higher up I saw the car coming but the people in front and the moving on coming car saw each other too late.
Highway Code Paragraph 104
Quote: You should also
* watch out for signals given by other road users and proceed only when you are satisfied that it is safe
If someone waves you out or flashes their lights or whatever, it does *not* mean the way is clear and you have priority over anything else!
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Jacko - 29-06-13
She probably looked but didn't see him. Not many people don't actually look.
should have expected it more with the standing traffic., it looks like a keep clear written on road so traffic
emerging there will be common.
If he hadn't dropped it may have had other options, again easy to say watching back.
Surprised she got done at all as he crashed on his own, hard to say what might have happened if he stayed on.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - sadlonelygit - 29-06-13
the rider had 3 seconds from the vehicle appearing to 'i can see my house from here'.
the rider actually continued to accelerate and change up in that time.
it would be interesting to know what bike it was as 6k in second on a modern bike is a damn site more than 30 iykwim.
poor obs on both counts and over compensation/panic from the bike rider.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Lawrence - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 04:03 PM)Jacko link Wrote: She probably looked but didn't see him. Not many people don't actually look.Rubbish. I reckon I have at least one a day who pull out/change lane/U turn without looking.
Either way, just because someone looks doesn't mean they're paying attention. I've had someone look straight at me (I saw him do it) then pull out right in front of me. I was in a Land Rover Discovery at the time, bit harder to miss than a bike.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Andy FZS - 29-06-13
You brake to hard and lock up, you don't brake hard enough you hit the car, just the right amount is often down to luck. Some times you get away with it sometimes you don't. Bad luck this time.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - caretaker - 29-06-13
100% bike. i come across situations like that on almost a daily basis. i havent had an accident for many years (jinxed it now though!!). car drivers either dont see you or havent looked etc. either way, you have to ride defensively (that doesnt mean sticking your middle finger up at the offending driver) and that rider wasnt. he was way too fast for the conditions and panicked, as the revs build up briefly as he goes down. lesson learnt, i'd say.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Slaninar - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 08:49 PM)Andy FZS link Wrote: You brake to hard and lock up, you don't brake hard enough you hit the car, just the right amount is often down to luck. Some times you get away with it sometimes you don't. Bad luck this time.
I'd rather not brake hard enough and hit the car upright. Fly over the car. Roll. It has worked fine - three times on a bicycle, once on a motorcycle.
Slow down as much as I feel it's possible without risking front wheel skid. Then hold the bars tight to roll over them, not hit your head. Balls can slap painfully on the tank though.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - nick crisp - 29-06-13
Except you don't know where you'll end up or what you'll hit when you land. Had it happen to me once. Did a perfect somersault over the bars and landed on my back on a hedge - like landing on a feather mattress! Not a scratch. Could've hit a lamp post or something though which wouldn't have been so funny.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - Slaninar - 29-06-13
(29-06-13, 09:57 PM)nick crisp link Wrote: Except you don't know where you'll end up or what you'll hit when you land. Had it happen to me once. Did a perfect somersault over the bars and landed on my back on a hedge - like landing on a feather mattress! Not a scratch. Could've hit a lamp post or something though which wouldn't have been so funny.
It's better than front wheel skid and goind down under a car. At least I believe so. Slow down as much as possible and then let your luck be tested.
Re: whose fault ? opinions ? - unfazed - 30-06-13
50/50, but rider seems to have got licky
Watching the video you can see the car starting to pull when the rider is well over 5 car lengths away, but judging by the engine sound rider makes no effort to slow or brake until about 2 car lengths and by then the car is fully out.
Lack of observation from both parties seems to have been the root cause.