Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring

Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - Printable Version

+- Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb)
+-- Forum: Bikes, Hints'n'Tips (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=66)
+--- Forum: Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner (https://foc-u.co.uk/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=75)
+--- Thread: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring (/showthread.php?tid=63337)

Pages: 1 2 3

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - VNA - 24-08-13

Oh boy, here we go again! :lol

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - nick crisp - 24-08-13

So, I've decided to eliminate my cam chain. That way, I won't have a tensioner that can fail. I've also decided not to use oil anymore, as it might prevent my engine from running in properly. I've also given up with petrol, cos it blew holes in my pistons. So I've taken those out as well. And the EXUP valve won't be sticking anymore, I guess. Same for the brake calipers. And to prevent any corrosion in the winter, I've dipped the whole bike in a rubber solution. Except the tyres. I'd already taken those off cos I'm scared of punctures.

Anyone know how I can get a bit more performance out of it?

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - pilgrim - 25-08-13

Simon. Pieman. Sorry to piss on your chips here, but I'm afraid to say that the Gen 1 Fazer Thou cam chain tensioner doesn't have the ratchet system to which you are referring. I've seen those on many bikes in the past, and if it had one it would have saved me an awful lot of time/trouble/money :'(
Simple fact is, when the spring lets go all pressure is taken off the tensioner piston instantly, no gradual rattles, no warning signs, just clonk dead! This most recent time it happened to me, the bike was ticking over on the drive sweet as a nut, and then it just stopped. Dead.
Nature takes its course, the cam chain instantly starts to flail around because the blade has no way of retaining tension, and it gets expensive. :\
Trust me on this, the cam chain tensioners on these have a serious design flaw, and if you are unlucky enough to have it rear its ugly head, which is a rare occurrence, I'll grant you, you will wish it was ratcheted, or some other method by which a tiny little shitty spring made out of the thinnest wire you have ever seen can suddenly wreck you're engine.
It wont happen to me again, because I have now eliminated the spring from the equation. Think I'll be sticking with my manual one, and wary ear Smile

Don't say I didn't warn you :b

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - devilsyam - 25-08-13

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-1000-Engine-Spares-Or-Repair-/171113039591?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item27d721c6e7

another dead un

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - Simon.Pieman - 26-08-13

(25-08-13, 01:08 AM)pilgrim link Wrote: It wont happen to me again, because I have now eliminated the spring from the equation. Think I'll be sticking with my manual one, and wary ear
Don't say I didn't warn you :b

Ok I stand corrected!

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - sirgalahad3 - 26-08-13

Hmm. I am aware of the ratchet type adjuster and would be happy with that set up. As the fazer seems rely totally on a spring worries me. As years go on the spring will get no stronger I guess. I think I will probably change mine.
On another note: Is it possible to buy just the spring from Yamaha. If so it seems a good idea to change just the spring to me. That way you have the constant correct tension plus the security of a brand new spring. Maybe change spring every 10,000 or 5 years? Saying that I suppose the tensioner is only available whole?

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - devilsyam - 26-08-13

[Image: 536956_10151662401598800_1363354639_n.jpg]

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - devilsyam - 26-08-13

This is a cam adjuster cock up engine had done 20k

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - sirgalahad3 - 30-08-13

Today my manual adjuster arrived. What a quality item it is. Very well made and finished. Fitted quite easily but there is an intermediate stage where it could be too tight or its in the right place. It can never be as accurate as the automatic one IMHO.
Anyway fitted and looks good.
Which brings me to the standard one. If you take it apart there is a very delicate spring in it which I can see could break quite easily. But, and here is the but.. This spring rotates clockwise and forward the plunger on a strong worm thread to take up any chain slack. It not the spring that takes any strain,its the worm thread. If the spring were to break it would certainly not be able to move forward to take up any more slack for sure,or be able to spin the plunger back. What I cannot see is how the plunger can jump back violently when it has to turn on the worm thread. Over time as its not under spring tension if it breaks I guess it could vibrate back slowly on the thread and make the chain rattle but this would not be catastrophic failure.
Anyway, manual here.

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring. A polite general warning. - pilgrim - 31-08-13

:b I've had 2 cam chain tensioner springs let go on me, and when you take the bastard thing off and wind it out to its full extent, you can push the piston back in quite easily.
Believe me, when it goes, it goes. BOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
I am getting seriously irked with this whole thing now, so I am going to say my final word on it, and never speak of it again, Ever.
The Gen 1 Yamaha Fazer 1000 has a shitty little spring in the cam chain tensioner which, if it snaps, and this is a rare condition which might or might not happen to you, can fuck your engines top end in no time flat. Period. No warning rattles, no ratchets to hold all hell unleashed back, just gone.
Pop.
Take it apart and you can quite easily push the tensioner piston back in, I know this, I have done this. Your cam chain will do this in the blink of an eye, and laugh while it bends the shit out of your inlet valves :eek 9 of them the first time :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek
I will now be relying on a manual cam chain tensioner, and a sharp ear for rattles from that area of the engine.
And no stupid thinner-than-cheese-wire spring will hold my fate in its scrawny little coils again, the bast.
I'm off now, take it easy folks, and pray you're not as unlucky as me :b :b

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - sirgalahad3 - 31-08-13

Hi Pilgrim, thats certainly interesting. Upon taking mine apart I can only say its different to yours. The spring on mine only winds the plunger forward on a worm thread. If the spring were to break,which is certainly possible,the plunger doesnt go back, the worm thread wont allow it too.
My plunger will not push back in,even without the spring fitted. Seems a good design to me?
Anyway good debate at the very least!
In hindsight I would not have now gone manual but hey,it looks cool!

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - Simon.Pieman - 31-08-13

(31-08-13, 07:42 AM)sirgalahad3 link Wrote:My plunger will not push back in,even without the spring fitted. Seems a good design to me?
Anyway good debate at the very least!
In hindsight I would not have now gone manual but hey,it looks cool!

Have you got pictures? This might be a tensioner from another model/engine, or perhaps Yamaha modified the design of the original.

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring. A polite general warning. - nick crisp - 31-08-13

(31-08-13, 01:04 AM)pilgrim link Wrote::b I've had 2 cam chain tensioner springs let go on me, and when you take the bastard thing off and wind it out to its full extent, you can push the piston back in quite easily.
Believe me, when it goes, it goes. BOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!
I am getting seriously irked with this whole thing now, so I am going to say my final word on it, and never speak of it again, Ever.
The Gen 1 Yamaha Fazer 1000 has a shitty little spring in the cam chain tensioner which, if it snaps, and this is a rare condition which might or might not happen to you, can fuck your engines top end in no time flat. Period. No warning rattles, no ratchets to hold all hell unleashed back, just gone.
Pop.
Take it apart and you can quite easily push the tensioner piston back in, I know this, I have done this. Your cam chain will do this in the blink of an eye, and laugh while it bends the shit out of your inlet valves :eek 9 of them the first time :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek
I will now be relying on a manual cam chain tensioner, and a sharp ear for rattles from that area of the engine.
And no stupid thinner-than-cheese-wire spring will hold my fate in its scrawny little coils again, the bast.
I'm off now, take it easy folks, and pray you're not as unlucky as me :b :b

You don't like it then...? :rollin

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - solorider - 31-08-13

It has been the R1 tensioner is better, what is the main difference to the fazer one? Is it that the R1 unit has a ratchet type?

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - Kosmic Kartman - 31-08-13

I had a manual cam chain tensioner arive in the post yesterday and I'll be fitting it later in time for LoFo blat out tomorrow.

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - PieEater - 31-08-13

I have just had a look at my original tensioner (2001 FZS1000), it does indeed have some kind of mechanism to stop the tensioner from being pushed back. The only way I was able to retract the tensioner was to insert a small flat headed screwdriver in the unit and turn the small screw adjuster.

So what I assume is happening on the catastrophic failures is that first the spring fails then as the untensioned chain gets loose enough it starts slapping the tension blade and eventually the ratchet mechanism gives way under the constant pounding. This would potentially explain why Pilgrim is adamant that there is no ratchet mechanism because in both his tensioners it had given way some time after the spring gave up the ghost.

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - Simon.Pieman - 31-08-13

(31-08-13, 01:55 PM)PieEater link Wrote:This would potentially explain why Pilgrim is adamant that there is no ratchet mechanism because in both his tensioners it had given way some time after the spring gave up the ghost.

This is why I was scratching my head metaphorically, because if there was no ratchet system the plunger would simply go in and out from new and not do any tensioning. I didn't want to sound unsympathetic with pilgrim tho, I had a semi-auto tensioner go on a Z650 eons ago and it also made me very cross.

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - sirgalahad3 - 31-08-13

Ok pics of the tensioner fitted to my 03 bike.
1 Tensioner
2 Plunger with internal thread
3 Male worm thread
4 Exploded view
5 Torsional spring
The torsional spring is quite fine as you can see but this spring only applies a torsioal twist to the plunger which then moves forward on the thread if there is any slack to take up. It is not a push spring or anywhere near strong enough to apply enough pressure to the chain slipper.
If the spring is removed from the tensioner you cannot push the plunger back,as Pie says this can only be manually with a screwdriver.
Maybe later bikes have a different tensioer fitted to Pilgrims I dont know but this one looks fine to me.
Manual here now but will probably go back as I feel the auto one provides more progressive tension. I see more engines being wrecked by over tightening of manual version than tensioner failure of the original unit buy as Luke quite rightly says it everyones choice at the end of the day.

Re: Not again!! Cam Chain Tensioner Spring - sirgalahad3 - 31-08-13

Pics