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+--- Thread: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) (/showthread.php?tid=62670)
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - simonm - 02-04-13
(02-04-13, 06:13 PM)richfzs link Wrote: [quote author=simonm link=topic=7046.msg66885#msg66885 date=1364922543]
It's okay, I wasn't after sympathy. I respect your opinion and your posts and your input but we don't have to agree on everything.
Indeed we don't - world would be a dull place otherwise...
If I really thought you were after sympathy, I'd have told you it's in the dictionary between shit and syphilis...
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
[/quote]
:lol
Like I said I'm just trying to get alternative perspectives to justify changing my point of view. There are some things I'm inflexible on, but I believe other peoples angles/viewpoints/perspectives can have an effect on you when you have time to cogitate on them.
I think I will always believe that the police are, in the main, jobsworths but I really do believe that they add value to the world. It would be nice if society was self regulating and that there only ever needed to be a token police force but with the ongoing collapse of morality and the deterioration/degeneration of society as the number of jobless and destitute increase I can only see a rise in police numbers in the future.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - simonm - 02-04-13
(02-04-13, 05:30 PM)noggythenog link Wrote: I think the best thing to do is try not to take it personally, whether you were right or wrong in your mind, they stopped you because the judged something that they seen & they are qualified to make these judgements & they would have done the same even if it wasnt you personally driving.
Im not saying you didnt know what was happening but youd be surprised at how we all fuzz things up a bit in our recollection of events, i work in a job where everything we say or do on the phone,radio or equipment is recorded for investigative purposes,it is quite surprising going back through the tapes after an incident to discover that things didnt quite pan out how you thought & that the words you blindly swore that you spoke never seem to come out of the tape.
All im saying is,you werent expecting it,you were just driving along as usual,they were at work & concentrating on you from an outside perspective.
Another thing to think is that at least they acted on what they felt was wrong, even if it wasnt,if they were too scared of scrutiny to ever stop people then getting that one call wrong would soon turn into not stopping much more serious things happening,things that may save people we know & love.
Good angles. Ty.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - simonm - 02-04-13
(02-04-13, 05:31 PM)ChristoT link Wrote: Personally, I have a profound distaste for coppers, and I'm a law abiding citizen (no points yet).
The problem can be summed up in Simon's original post:
[quote author=simonm link=topic=7046.msg66859#msg66859 date=1364918365]
why are they so intent on making it 'us' and 'them'
Like it or not, the UK has become a police state. We're watched day in, day out by countless cameras, our slightest actions are cracked down upon whilst real crimes appear to be largely ignored / given a wide berth in favour of soft targets like motorists. It's not surprising the general populus is disenchanted with Plod.
I for one have decided that I will not co-operate with the police unless a) it is in my vested interest or b) it concerns a violent/serious crime. For anything else, they can foc off.
PS: I agree completely with the "I feel as if I'm being judged when I'm not guilty of anything". So much for innocent til proven guilty, eh?
[/quote]
I agree with this too.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - stevierst - 02-04-13
Don't be so quick to judge 'all' cops, and definately don't tar them all with the same brush!!!
They're people at the end of the day that are just doing a thankless job, and there are some pleasant ones out there apart from the egotistical bullyboy knobheads which were obviously talking about :rolleyes
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - Tiberius Onklevaart - 02-04-13
[quote author=simonm link=topic=7046.msg66859#msg66859
Conclusion:
How can I change my viewpoint ?
[/quote]
Don't.
There are plenty of prick cops and plenty of good uns. Treat em on an individual basis like you would anyone else
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - stevierst - 02-04-13
(02-04-13, 07:28 PM)Tiberius Onklevaart link Wrote: There are plenty of prick cops and plenty of good uns. Treat em on an individual basis like you would anyone else
Touche! This is how cops generally treat people, like individuals!! Start to give them shit, and they'll get annoyed with you. Sometimes this can be the deciding factor between a bollocking and a ticket.
Respect is mutual, just needs the reciprocation from the person they're dealing with. Common sense really :rolleyes
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - andydrz - 02-04-13
I have been pulled over a few times by the Police including speeding(numerous), driving with no tax, m.o.t or insurance and riding suspiciously(!). I have only been done once for speeding for doing 43mph in a 30. Each time, I know I have been stopped for a reason. I always get out of the car/off bike, say hello and take a bollocking for being a knob. I act humble, don't gob off at them, and it works. Each time they could have thrown the book at me and I believe my attitude towards them has prevented that happening. You know yourself, if someone is in your face and argumentative, it's easy to take an instant dislike to them. Why should the Police be any different?
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - Tiberius Onklevaart - 02-04-13
(02-04-13, 07:36 PM)stevierst link Wrote: [quote author=Tiberius Onklevaart link=topic=7046.msg66905#msg66905 date=1364927316]
There are plenty of prick cops and plenty of good uns. Treat em on an individual basis like you would anyone else
Touche! This is how cops generally treat people, like individuals!! Start to give them shit, and they'll get annoyed with you. Sometimes this can be the deciding factor between a bollocking and a ticket.
Respect is mutual, just needs the reciprocation from the person they're dealing with. Common sense really :rolleyes
[/quote]
Thats what I was getting at.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - dBfazer600 - 02-04-13
Respect has to be earned in my book so I start off with what I hope is a good example but if its only one way then those who chose to go down that lane gets it right back. Create an equilibrium shows others your not their to be pushed around but i don't go in fighting from the off but if they chose to educate rather than trying to tell a child off they get the respect.
Daz
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - ghostbiker - 02-04-13
Don't break rules and you won't get nicked.
I know I'm not whiter than white, but when I do get pulled 9 x out of 10 I get treated the same way I treat them. Smile and be friendly and they (mostly) are the same. If you did wrong then hands up and don't bitch about it. You know the rules and if you don't you should not be on the road.
You get the odd knob as you do in any job, they also make mistakes sometimes. There humans get over it and move on.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - bri h - 03-04-13
Ive had good and bad experieces with the old bill and people in general. one thing ive learned is that if you treat people decently then most of them will act decently. if you treat someone like shit they will definately act like shit.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - pitternator - 03-04-13
in my experience ( been pulled twice, got nicked once)..you will know within a few seconds if you will get nicked. If its a mobile camera and ur pulled over its most likely you will get a ticket unless you say and do the right things. Most police wont stop people just to preach unless they have some time on their hands. They will make a judgement on you if a talk would help or a ticket.But look at it logically , if they set up a speed trap, people will get ticketed.
I look on it as they are just doing their job, I havent been in the situation where I feel I have been " fitted up" , so cant comment on that. BUT if I am speeding , I cant be angry at being done if I get caught.I know I can argue that excess speed could be possible given the road situation at the time, but legally I have broken the law.
Ultimately yes it will come down to the discretion of the officer , so if you behave in the appropriate way you have a chance it will just be a bollocking.
My let off BTW was in wales, by a rural copper with a mobile camera. I was riding alone, wasnt in power ranger leathers, was contrite and apologetic at the time. Plus I reckon he just was in a good mood !
My nicking was a traffic cop on a dual carriagewway where the limit had changed and I missed a sign. But it still was my mistake.It was in a car though.
I have never been nicked while on my bike, which must be some sort of record ! :lol
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - simonm - 03-04-13
I think that most people apart from the arrogant and self righteous intend to treat others the way they would like to be treated.
The only issue with this, on occasion, is when the person you're talking to is on a power trip and expects subservience and deference. This certainly gets my back up.
I'm generalising when I say that, I do intend it to be in the minority but I challenge anyone to refute that some people join the police force (in no small part) for the feeling of power.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - Buzz - 03-04-13
Regarding "different personalities"... I had an interesting experience on the Bikesafe course I took in North London as I ended up sitting round a table in Frankie and Benny's, eating a Pizza, arguing with 3 police motorcycle cops about the rights and wrongs of the road. I'd only been riding for about 3 months and don't drive a car so couldn't really comment on motorised transport but the views on cycling/red lights were very polarised and it really brought out the personalities of the officers.
2 were fine about going through red lights (or at least early jumping of lights) when the junction was hazardous to hang back with traffic and said they'd probably give me a warning if I endangered any member of the public etc. but the other was practically going to give me a fixed penno there and then, "rules are rules" he said.
Anyway, I'd just make sure you have a good chat on your Bikesafe course, it was very enlightening to see the differing opinions of Police "off the road" and a very "humanising" experience.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - simonm - 03-04-13
(02-04-13, 05:39 PM)BBROWN1664 link Wrote:Quote:I frequently see police using excessive speed without any emergency lights
They don't actually have to have the lights and sirens on. They are there for warning people and sometimes they need to be "silent"
The first one sounds like a fair nick. You crossed a white line and they did you for it. You said you were doing 70mph too but didn't mention if it was on a dual carriageway so they may have been after you before the white line incident.
As for Bikesafe. I did the course a few years ago and it was great. The plod on the bikes are bikers and understand how bikes should be ridden. One thing you will learn from them. No matter what they ride, they will out ride you. I thought ST1100 Pan Europeans were lardy tourers before I saw one in the hands of a police rider!
If you want some fun, ask them on their view on "off-siding" whilst out riding. The response I got was to go for it but they wouldn't as they were on marked bikes and the "public" don't understand how much safer off-siding is on left hand bends and just phone in with a complaint about police bikes being ridden dangerously.
Off-siding seems insane. I wouldn't ever do it. :eek
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - stevierst - 03-04-13
(03-04-13, 07:46 AM)simonm link Wrote: I'm generalising when I say that, I do intend it to be in the minority but I challenge anyone to refute that some people join the police force (in no small part) for the feeling of power.I don't mean to destroy your preconception Simon, but these people are normally weeded out during initial police selection, they're not difficult to spot.
The older cops who have done a bit of service and maybe come across as confrontive have developed this through countless years of putting up with the geenral public who think that they know better than the law practitioner stood infront of them. After a 10 hour shift when the traffic cop has stopped his 18th motorist of the day who 'knows the highway code' and 'I know my rights', and 'you can't do that' then you can probably begin to understand that he's heard it all before and his patience is wearing a little thin.
You've got to accept that a cop has been sworn into a position of government office, and yes they do command the respect of the general public. They are the first link in a long chain of the law system, and there to protect the public and uphold the law at street level. If you want to complain about cops and our nanny state, then take a good look at some of the Police forces outside the UK and how they behave. You DEFINATELY wouldn't start giving shit to a Croatian/Norwegian/Swedish cop 'cos they'd beat the living shite out of you then throw you in a cell.
Our cops don't seem so bad after all do they!!!
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - Buzz - 03-04-13
Pesky double post
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - Buzz - 03-04-13
Never heard of the term "Off-siding" until now but the Bikesafe officer I was with told me about a couple of callouts he had in the last 6 months.
1) Pregnant woman crossing the road, biker "off-siding" and didn't see her, knocked her over and caused a miscarriage. 25, never been nicked, never had a brush with the law and ended up with 8 years in prison for manslaughter.
2) There are certain islands that cut the road in half for a good mile or so, the North Circular has many of these apparently. 2 bikers "off-sided" to find themselves on the wrong side of the road with no way back, both killed by a lorry.
Don't care if it's all BS or not, I won't be doing it in a hurry.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - BBROWN1664 - 03-04-13
Quote:Off-siding seems insane. I wouldn't ever do it
I am guessing you are either joking or have never tried it. :pokefun
Quote:There are certain islands that cut the road in half for a good mile or so,That's not off-siding, that's just illegal.
the North Circular has many of these apparently. 2 bikers "off-sided" to
find themselves on the wrong side of the road with no way back, both killed by a
lorry.
Off siding is the art of sitting in the right hand gutter on a left hand bend giving you maximum visibility round the bend which in turn allows you to make better progress. Nothing is dangerous about it as it is intended to give you better options for escape in the event something comes the other way as you will see it much earlier.
The off-siding you are referring to is going the wrong way down a one way road in reality. Those islands have keep left arrows on them so ignoring them is like going through a no-entry sign.
Re: A question of respect (let the flaming begin...) - Buzz - 03-04-13
I never heard of that very sensible technique being called "Off-siding" before, thought it was just common sense, it's a learning day for me obviously...
This was my reference.