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+--- Thread: braided hose brake lines (/showthread.php?tid=71067)
braided hose brake lines - fazerblue - 07-12-14
Does anybody know if braided hoses are better than the original ones on the fazer or like some bikes make it worst input is great-full thanks
Re: braided hose brake lines - Neon Knight - 09-12-14
You must really want an answer to this 1 :lol
Re: braided hose brake lines - stevierst - 09-12-14
Yes, they make a difference. [emoji2]
Re: braided hose brake lines - JoeRock - 10-12-14
They're always better (after a few years) - unless the original had braided to start with!
Re: braided hose brake lines - MrGimly - 14-12-14
Dunno about the whole brake line thing,TBH standard lines work better for me.
I find stainless brake lines don,t feel right on a standard road bike,they may feel better on a full on sportsbike but not on my roadbike.
:rolleyes
Re: braided hose brake lines - unfazed - 14-12-14
It is down to choice, I personally do not like them as they lack the feel of the standard hoses :eek , others love them.
I have always recommended that you ride a bike with braided hoses before you change your own bike to them.
Re: braided hose brake lines - VNA - 14-12-14
Quote:Does anybody know if braided hoses are better than the original ones on the fazer or like some bikes make it worst input is great-full thanks
What?
Re: braided hose brake lines - jeffco - 14-12-14
I changed mine last year, my bikes an 04 and as far as I know had the original lines on . So....yes it defiantly stop quicker...but it is far less forgiving of those situations where you think Shit! I know I shouldn't really break here but im going to have to very very gently apply a bit .....there isn't so much gently about it . It will probably improve with wear and practice but for me , I probably regret changing
Re: braided hose brake lines - fazerblue - 14-12-14
thanks for the help i am just an average rider so hearing these comments i think i will stick to the original brake lines.
Re: braided hose brake lines - PieEater - 14-12-14
Rubber hoses will age and deteriorate, for safety reasons replacement is advised after 4 years regardless of condition. Personally if my Gen1 still had OEM brake lines replacing them would be at the top of my to do list whether this was with braided or like-for-like.
I think people's negative reactions to braided lines may partly be because there is a big difference in performance and feel between old rubber hoses and new braided lines. From personal experience there is a short period of adjustment whilst you adapt to the feel of the brakes after which you forget what the rubber ones felt like.
Re: braided hose brake lines - JoeRock - 14-12-14
(14-12-14, 08:38 PM)PieEater link Wrote: Rubber hoses will age and deteriorate, for safety reasons replacement is advised after 4 years regardless of condition. Personally if my Gen1 still had OEM brake lines replacing them would be at the top of my to do list whether this was with braided or like-for-like.
I think people's negative reactions to braided lines may partly be because there is a big difference in performance and feel between old rubber hoses and new braided lines. From personal experience there is a short period of adjustment whilst you adapt to the feel of the brakes after which you forget what the rubber ones felt like.
Would definitely agree. That, or people are incredibly hamfisted with their brakes!
Personally, I want my brakes in tip top condition,and don't want less than full braking power/efficiency!
Re: braided hose brake lines - fazed - 14-12-14
Go along with JoeRock on this one. Have replaced all brakepipes on my Fazer 1000 with HEL lines and in my experience the difference over rubber hoses is really marked better feel and stronger action...Make sure fluid is changed at right times and if pads and discs are in good condition I think you'll maintain brake performance at the optimum
Re: braided hose brake lines - stevierst - 15-12-14
I'm with fazed on this. It's just sharper/crisper feel if everything else is in good nick.
It doesn't suddenly transform them into razor sharp snatchy brakes at all.[emoji23]
Re: braided hose brake lines - PaulSmith - 15-12-14
One of the reasons manufacturers go with rubber hoses even on thier high end kit is that their bikes are sometimes bought by fools with no skill, experience or training. These are the sort of people who are more likely to grab at the brakes and so have a fractionally better chance of survivng if the breaks are soggy and slow to grip. The extreme of this was Honda's linked braking system where the bike decided how to slow down instead of the rider. Some high end cars will even decide when to slow down, with their 'brake assist' type features on the basis that some drivers are too timid to use their brakes fully.
There is a market for this and there are people for whom it is the better system. Fortunatly Yamaha gives us the choice of staying with rubber hoses or changing to braided giving a higher degree of control but being more sensitive to mistakes.
If you are not sure which would suit you better, I would suggest you don't change them yet but put some serious practice into your braking and see if you cant improve your control and technique. Then you will be able to better decide for yourself from a position of knowledge.
Re: braided hose brake lines - PieEater - 15-12-14
(15-12-14, 12:19 PM)PaulSmith link Wrote: I would suggest you don't change them yet but put some serious practice into your braking and see if you cant improve your control and technique.
Putting 9-14 year old hoses under additional pressure through attempting to learn better braking could well end up in the hoses giving out and a trip to A&E. I don't see the point in spending time trying to improve braking techniques on a system that is already well past it's best and that will continue to degrade likely to the point of failure. The same amount of time would be much better spent acclimatising to an efficient braking system with new hoses and considerably less chance of failure.
Re: braided hose brake lines - JoeRock - 15-12-14
(15-12-14, 12:19 PM)PaulSmith link Wrote: One of the reasons manufacturers go with rubber hoses even on thier high end kit is that their bikes are sometimes bought by fools with no skill, experience or training.
Sorry mate, but that's completely wrong. It's because when they're new, OE rubber lines have the same tensile strength as steel hoses, but are considerably cheaper than braided. It's just as time goes on they deteriorate, and braided don't - hence standard hoses being a 4 year service item!
A lot of manufacturers do now use braided as standard, but most of them are "premium" products; Ducati, Benelli, etc. Interestingly though I know Triumph use them as well on all their bikes!
Re: braided hose brake lines - hotmetal - 15-12-14
I put Venhill lines on my '54 plate Gen 1. But only because the oe ones had been on there for yonks and I thought they could do with being replaced. The braided lines do have a difference in feel, kind of stronger but more wooden if that makes sense? You soon get used to it though. I think the biggest difference people notice is because they probably haven't put new fluid in since the bike was built, rather than the lines themselves though.
The Venhill ones are nicely made and have swivelling banjos (yee hah Cletus squeal like a piggy dadading-ding-ding!) This means you don't get any twist in the lines when you tighten them up.
Re: braided hose brake lines - unfazed - 15-12-14
I know what you mean by wooden and it was for that very reason I went back to new OEM ones.
I never could get used to the wooden feel from the braided lines.
I think I must have bought the last Right side OEM hose for the 600 as they are out of production now.
It is possible to have rubber ones made up and they are tested to 3000psi on the machine which I am going to try for the 1000 next year.
Re: braided hose brake lines - PaulSmith - 17-12-14
(15-12-14, 03:44 PM)PieEater link Wrote: [quote author=PaulSmith link=topic=15480.msg177367#msg177367 date=1418642355]
I would suggest you don't change them yet but put some serious practice into your braking and see if you cant improve your control and technique.
Putting 9-14 year old hoses under additional pressure through attempting to learn better braking could well end up in the hoses giving out and a trip to A&E. I don't see the point in spending time trying to improve braking techniques on a system that is already well past it's best and that will continue to degrade likely to the point of failure. The same amount of time would be much better spent acclimatising to an efficient braking system with new hoses and considerably less chance of failure.
[/quote]
Huh? Tell me where you would rather they failed? On a quite piece of road with no traffic or danger if you dont stop as quick as you would like, or when shit is happeneing and you will die if you dont stop as quick as you would like? Hmmm, let me think about that one.
If you don't trust your hoses to do the job, what the foc are you doing riding the bike in the first place? And if you don't see the point of trying to improve your braking technique, you probably never will.
Re: braided hose brake lines - PaulSmith - 17-12-14
(15-12-14, 04:13 PM)JoeRock link Wrote: Sorry mate, but that's completely wrong. It's because when they're new, OE rubber lines have the same tensile strength as steel hoses, but are considerably cheaper than braided. It's just as time goes on they deteriorate, and braided don't - hence standard hoses being a 4 year service item!The cost difference is a factor, but it is only a dollar or two per meter in commercial quantities, so no, it is not a big factor. It is not called tensile strength, but I know what you mean, but again, they are not the same when new. Unbraided hoses expand under internal pressure far more than braided ones, even when new, giving a softer feel. As they get older and the material weakens (from expanding) they expand even more to the point where braking force is comprimised, that is why they are a service item.
Having a softer feel means a rider is less likely to lock up when they snatch the brakes the way inexperienced (or unpracticed) riders are more likely to do, but it also means braking distance is increased because there is less rider control over the braking.
If you still believe braided and unbraided hoses are the same when new, ask yourself why most racers replace their new unbraided lines with braided ones.