votes for prisoners

[BBROWN1664]

How about this?

All lifers are put into an old navy aircraft carrier and taken out to the mid Atlantic where the ship can be used for target practice by anyone with a cannon?
All long term prisoners are locked in their cells 23.5 hours a day and only allowed out to empty their crap buckets?
All short term prisoners (under 5 years??) are put on chain gangs and put to work in the community wearing bright pink jumpsuits.

It might prevent re-offending.

Oh and Graham, the reason we moved away from the strict Victorian system wasn't because it didn't work, it did, it was because of soft MP's.

[Grahamm]

How about this?

[...]

It might prevent re-offending.

Oh and Graham, the reason we moved away from the strict Victorian system wasn't because it didn't work, it did, it was because of soft MP's.

Clueless.

Try reading some history of prisons and you'll see just how "succesful" the Victorian system and others like it were at preventing reoffending...

[phillywilly]

bbbrown - the whole world has gone soft  it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 
make all them sow mailbags for 20 hours a day for 10 pence and then when they leave prison after spending 20 years in a 6ft by 6ft cell with straw for the bed TATTOO on their forehead the crime they done so they have a reminder for rest of their lives what a past they have !!!
give me a tattoo gun -i,ll do it
if the country has gone this soft in the last 40 years ,then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

[Slaninar]

bbbrown - the whole world has gone soft  it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 

You somehow take it for granted that criminals are being rational. They do fear the punishment, but it's not like they all make calculated career choices when breaking the law. It doesn't work that way.

[DryRob]

then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

Since we are an island nation we could exploit that and be turned into a European super prison island. Just build a massive wall around the coast, remove all technology, airdrop in new prisoners and supplies in and let them sort it out between themselves. The money would allow us to purchase an island in the south pacific called Betterer Great Britain.

I jest, it should be called Great Brian.

Prison systems around the world vary in terms of prisoner quality of life and crime is still committed when prison conditions are terrible. The severity of punishment is not a deterrent if you don't think there is anything wrong with breaking the law or that you will not be caught.

[Grahamm]

it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 

No, it's complete bullshit.

"The Bloody Code is a term used to refer to the system of laws and punishments in England between 1688 and 1815. It was not referred to as such in its own time, but the name was given later owing to the sharply increased number of crimes that attracted the death penalty such as capital crimes."

So, what happened? Crime stopped because you could be hanged for "Grand larceny, defined as the theft of goods worth more than 12 pence"? Well, no, it didn't.

So what did happen? Answer Juries would deliberately (and often massively) underestimate the value of goods so people would not be sentenced to death because, incredibly enough, most people are not complete sociopaths and whilst they may talk big (especially on internet forums!) when it actually comes to passing a guilty verdict which would take someone's life, they are not willing to do so.

And, frankly, anyone who *could* do such a thing is the one who *REALLY* should be locked up for the protection of society!!

[Pat]

bbbrown - the whole world has gone soft  it is a given fact isnt it that if you knew you would be put on an aircraft carrier and used for target practise ,you would be deterred from doing  armed robbery or whatever else these scum bags do 

You somehow take it for granted that criminals are being rational. They do fear the punishment, but it's not like they all make calculated career choices when breaking the law. It doesn't work that way.

Precisely!!

The single largest group of prisoners these days  (~50%) are druggies that are mugging/shoplifting/burgling in order to score their next fix, throw in the fact that most violent crime is comitted by people that have been drinking.  It shows how little understanding of the situation that the Daily Mail  readers have that they think either of these groups take time to consider the possible outcome of their actions.

As does the suggestion to extend sentences for bad behaviour rather than reduce it for good.  In order to make someone spend time behind bars it's neccessary to follow the legal process of charging them with an offence, trying & convicting them in a court & finally sentencing them.  Therefore if someone is serving a sentence & commits an offence that's not an imprisonable one, you can't extend their sentence.  If they do then you have to go through the judicial process &  follow the laws of the land to do it, allowing time off for good behaviour sidesteps all this time, effort & expense as they've already been sentenced.  It also helps the prison staff too, as it reduces general low level disruptive behaviour which in itself may not be a criminal offence, but can currently be punished by loss of remission.

[Slaninar]

The single largest group of prisoners these days  (~50%) are druggies that are mugging/shoplifting/burgling in order to score their next fix,

In my country, 90% of violent crime (robberies, brake and enter etc) could be stopped if addicts were allowed to plow fields and raise crops to make heroin for their own use. It would be free, society would be a lot less dangerous. However, government agencies and mafia (who pay politicians) would be out of business. They use drug money for financing and legalizing would make them loose a lot of money. Some people profit from high crime rate.

[John Silva]

then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

Since we are an island nation we could exploit that and be turned into a European super prison island. Just build a massive wall around the coast, remove all technology, airdrop in new prisoners and supplies in and let them sort it out between themselves. The money would allow us to purchase an island in the south pacific called Betterer Great Britain.

I jest, it should be called Great Brian.

  And just how are the illegal drug dealing benifit scrounging immigrants suppose to get in then. 

 

[phillywilly]

then what the hell will it be like in 40 years time ?

Since we are an island nation we could exploit that and be turned into a European super prison island. Just build a massive wall around the coast, remove all technology, airdrop in new prisoners and supplies in and let them sort it out between themselves. The money would allow us to purchase an island in the south pacific called Betterer Great Britain.

I jest, it should be called Great Brian.

  And just how are the illegal drug dealing benifit scrounging immigrants suppose to get in then. 

 

by the good old fashioned "HUMAN RIGHTS " asylum -"you give me benefits,house , free medical treatment ,schooling ,more benefits ,then when i get old free pensions,and old peoples home ,without me paying a penny into the society asylum human rights 

[Slaninar]

by the good old fashioned "HUMAN RIGHTS " asylum -"you give me benefits,house , free medical treatment ,schooling ,more benefits ,then when i get old free pensions,and old peoples home ,without me paying a penny into the society asylum human rights 

I get up at 6, go to work, come home about 17. Eat, walk the dog, and it's already dark. From 16 hours I'm awake, work takes 10, more than half!

A good friend of mine can't afford a motorcycle. He lives off welfare. Refuses to do minimum wage job, since it's almost like welfare but takes more than half of your day. He has all the day for himself. Walking by the river, reading etc. I respect that. Wouldn't force to work anyone who doesn't want to.


I understand if you blame immigrants for taking jobs for lower wages, making you too work for lower wage. But if you blame them for not working - are all the natives hard working, or do you not have "lazy" Englishmen as well. These last few posts are on the edge of racism/schauvinism.

Fingers say it all:

Stiff Little Fingers - Welcome To The Whole Week

[phillywilly]

by the good old fashioned "HUMAN RIGHTS " asylum -"you give me benefits,house , free medical treatment ,schooling ,more benefits ,then when i get old free pensions,and old peoples home ,without me paying a penny into the society asylum human rights 

I get up at 6, go to work, come home about 17. Eat, walk the dog, and it's already dark. From 16 hours I'm awake, work takes 10, more than half!

A good friend of mine can't afford a motorcycle. He lives off welfare. Refuses to do minimum wage job, since it's almost like welfare but takes more than half of your day. He has all the day for himself. Walking by the river, reading etc. I respect that. Wouldn't force to work anyone who doesn't want to.


I understand if you blame immigrants for taking jobs for lower wages, making you too work for lower wage. But if you blame them for not working - are all the natives hard working, or do you not have "lazy" Englishmen as well. These last few posts are on the edge of racism/schauvinism.

Fingers say it all:

 slaninar ,- my post is not about being racist at all,far from it ,BUT i do have a chip on my shoulder about "human rights"
ever since that word has abused by all illegal immigrants,prisoners , ect ect all it has ever achieved is to give the people who want to sponge in my country a lawful right to sponge and the government has to fall over backwards to them ...so my friend no,its not about racism

[VNA - BMW Wank]

by the good old fashioned "HUMAN RIGHTS " asylum -"you give me benefits,house , free medical treatment ,schooling ,more benefits ,then when i get old free pensions,and old peoples home ,without me paying a penny into the society asylum human rights 

Can you back any of that up with facts?  Cos me thinks you are full of foccin shite.

As for drug addicts, when are we going to realise the drug war has been lost.  You know about 90% plus of break ins and other 'minor' crimes in the town I live in are committed by drug addicts.  I say 'minor' because it ain't very minor if it happens to you.  Of course we insist in keeping drugs illegal and filling our prisons with drug addicts, instead of investing in programmes that will help and stabilise addicts and put the organised ciminals and drug dealers out of business .

Refuses to do minimum wage job, since it's almost like welfare but takes more than half of your day.

Can't blame him really.  But when are people going to wake up to the con of the minimum wage.  You can't live on the minimum wage, yet big national and multi-national companies use the minimum wage as if it were a living wage.  Why are we subsidising these fat cat directors and their rich shareholders, why have we got David Cameron and a cabinet of multimillionaires in power who protect the bankers, the fat cat directors, all their tax dodging friends instead of tackling the real issues that effect the rest of us.   Millions of people on the minimum wage get subsidies from other only slightly more wealthy tax payers.  The rich in this country are robbing the poor, and they are doing it broad daylight but people appear to be too stupid and blind to see it.  So instead they rant and rave about votes for prisoners (you know with soup kitchens and food banks opening up all over the country as a result of Tory policy you can bet that in turn the prison population is about to swell), benefits cheats, oh yes immigrants, can't be long before somebody starts ranting about Muslims too!

 

[alan09]

didnt think it would be long before some cnut played the racist card.....ok we give up

[Grahamm]

The single largest group of prisoners these days  (~50%) are druggies that are mugging/shoplifting/burgling in order to score their next fix, throw in the fact that most violent crime is comitted by people that have been drinking.  It shows how little understanding of the situation that the Daily Mail  readers have that they think either of these groups take time to consider the possible outcome of their actions.

I'm glad to see that at least *someone* understands the situation!

[popeye72]

If we are going to have a go at immigrants, where I work we employ eastern European agency workers, minimum wage for a low skilled job. Why well we could not get any British national to do the work. These workers share lodgings and don’t expect luxuries, they work hard 12 hours a day and are glad for the opportunity. I have and I would work for minimum wage as for me its self-respect to say I am working. We can moan all we like about foreign workers but we as a nation have become spoilt and lazy. We pay the agency minimum wage as we would be out of business if we paid anymore.

[Robbie8666]

ok lets say prisoners are given the right to vote, whether you agree or disagree with this, which ward would they vote in? The one where the prison is situated or would they have a postal vote for the ward in which they lived in before been imprisoned?
 
 

[Farjo]

The latter - they'd get a vote at the address at which they resided immediately before they became a prisoner.

[Farjo]

And seeing as facts are being introduced into the argument let me just point out that:

Not all prisoners will get the vote. There are three options: ban for prisoners sentenced to 4 years or more; ban for prisoners sentenced to 6 months or more; ban for all prisoners (i.e. no change).

The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the European Union except the word European.

Almost all other European countries allow some or all their prisoners to vote.

[Grahamm]

ok lets say prisoners are given the right to vote, whether you agree or disagree with this, which ward would they vote in? The one where the prison is situated or would they have a postal vote for the ward in which they lived in before been imprisoned?

The one which they lived in.