Author Topic: votes for prisoners (Read 11545 times)

Tori · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 November 2012, 06:19:20 pm »

Rob, they're doing extra work. The council don't sweep leaves, only rubbish. That's the whole point. It's pointless! Lol

DryRob · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 November 2012, 08:13:18 pm »

ah I see, maybe they should have to guard drying paint as well

alan09 · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 November 2012, 08:40:54 pm »

Quote from: Tori on 24 November 2012, 02:14:01 pm

Prison should be prison. Your sentence should be your sentence. Simple.

Prison should be a locked room 24/7 except to shower/eat. Rest of the time, in the room, no tv, no playstation, no snooker table etc. A friend of mine did a few months in a low risk/open prison and said it was like Butlins. There was even an offy over the road they could go over to! He said when he was at Chelmsford there was less lenience, but it was still like a holiday for him.
If they want time out of their cell (Which, let's face it, isn't a cell, it's just somewhere to sleep) then make them work.

Prisoners should have basic human rights in prison. They should have no say in a community they have no part in for their duration.

If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

I think if ^^ were the case, criminals may think a little harder about what it's like inside.

The MCTC have the right idea in Colchester. Make them sweep the roads and pick up fallen leaves. Every day. All day.

totally agree with you tori couldn't have put it better myself

Slaninar · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 November 2012, 09:41:39 pm »

Quote from: Tori on 24 November 2012, 02:14:01 pm

Prison should be prison. Your sentence should be your sentence. Simple.

Prison should be a locked room 24/7 except to shower/eat. Rest of the time, in the room, no tv, no playstation, no snooker table etc. A friend of mine did a few months in a low risk/open prison and said it was like Butlins. There was even an offy over the road they could go over to! He said when he was at Chelmsford there was less lenience, but it was still like a holiday for him.
If they want time out of their cell (Which, let's face it, isn't a cell, it's just somewhere to sleep) then make them work.

Prisoners should have basic human rights in prison. They should have no say in a community they have no part in for their duration.

If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

I think if ^^ were the case, criminals may think a little harder about what it's like inside.

The MCTC have the right idea in Colchester. Make them sweep the roads and pick up fallen leaves. Every day. All day.

NOt sure about England, but in my country, if say a kid carelessly jumps in front of your car and you don't manage to avoid. You go to prison.

If you can't afford to pay bills, or fines, you go to prison.

If you are getting robbed, you overreact and brake a bone of your attacker, you go to prison.

Prisons are with harsh conditions and prisoners get out worse than they were when they got in. The worse the conditions, the more problematic people come out of prisons. I'd rather have a death sentence, than hard condition in prisons.

Tori · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 November 2012, 11:15:59 pm »

So what do you suggest? Make our prisons like the local Marriott? What tosh!! If you commit a crime, do your time, in the conditions the prison provides. If you don't like it, don't commit the crime! Tough love might work two ways, but I think the majority of those who offend again, would of done so anyway, because they're just of that mindset.
This country needs to toughen up!!

Tori for pm!!!

VNA - BMW Wank · « **Reply #30 on:** 25 November 2012, 03:45:10 am »

Quote

Prison should be a locked room 24/7 except to shower/eat.

Sorry, but prison is about restriction of rights, and more importantly about reform. Prison is supposed to be a correction facility.

Prison as simply as a deterrent, never did work, never will work, and cannot ever work.

Slaninar · « **Reply #31 on:** 25 November 2012, 07:27:16 am »

Quote from: Tori on 24 November 2012, 11:15:59 pm

So what do you suggest? Make our prisons like the local Marriott? What tosh!! If you commit a crime, do your time, in the conditions the prison provides. If you don't like it, don't commit the crime! Tough love might work two ways, but I think the majority of those who offend again, would of done so anyway, because they're just of that mindset.
This country needs to toughen up!!

Tori for pm!!!

You did not read and comprehend the post you replied to. You CAN end up in prison without DELIBERATELY trying to break the law. Do you understand that (I'm not being sarcastic, no offence meant - I've seen good honest men in prison for accidents or mistakes, or for bad judges)? It does happen to real, nice, ordinary people.

The Danish prison, like paradise island, does have the least rate of prisoners continuing to do crime. They get aprenticeship in learning how to make living leagally, socialization etc. Those are the results of that ongoing experiment. You could also call it facts.

Tori · « **Reply #32 on:** 25 November 2012, 09:11:45 am »

I did read your post. I'm well aware decent people can end up in jail. Truth is, they broke the law.

I do however, agree with rehab in jail. Just lock them in their cells the rest of the time!

spoonlamp · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 November 2012, 10:44:47 am »

I love that there's a discussion like this going on here and everyone can make their point and civil to each other! So many threads on da interwebz these days just end up with insults, flame wars and a massively off topic thread!

What about the argument that if prison is not just a punishment but also an attempt to rehabilitate, to make them more integrated into society and therefore less likely to re-offend, would giving them the vote not help this? Give people the information they need to make an opinion on an election must surely make them involved in a society?

MadDogMcQ · « **Reply #34 on:** 25 November 2012, 03:15:53 pm »

Slaninar · « **Reply #35 on:** 25 November 2012, 03:55:35 pm »

Quote from: Tori on 25 November 2012, 09:11:45 am

I did read your post. I'm well aware decent people can end up in jail. Truth is, they broke the law.

It is also truth that the worse conditions in a prison are, the worse people come out of that prison. Less likely to integrate into society.

I'd love to see a system of yellow and red cards. You can make any kind of idiocy once. Get a booking. Serve short time with all the possible benefits. Free training in certain trades, opportunity to work for money, education, psychologists, etc. Serve the same for any crime commited once. Do a certain thing twice, get a second booking, serve in harsher conditions, for a short time. Do the same thing three times - bullet in the head.

The biggest crime I see is that washing streets of garbage gets you a wage to hardly survive, while selling Coca Cola to kids makes you rich.

Vote is overrated - if it could really change anything, it would be prohibited. All the politicians play for the same group of rich people.

phillywilly · « **Reply #36 on:** 25 November 2012, 04:07:37 pm »

Quote from: spoonlamp on 25 November 2012, 10:44:47 am

I love that there's a discussion like this going on here and everyone can make their point and civil to each other! So many threads on da interwebz these days just end up with insults, flame wars and a massively off topic thread!

What about the argument that if prison is not just a punishment but also an attempt to rehabilitate, to make them more integrated into society and therefore less likely to re-offend, would giving them the vote not help this? Give people the information they need to make an opinion on an election must surely make them involved in a society?

why would you want to get them involved in society ?- look what they done when they was LAST involved in society !
why should they have an opinion to get some vote ?they should lose all rights when they over step the mark in the first place
this country needs to grow some balls and tear up the human rights bill and the eec court of appeal and send all these terrorists back to the countries wanting to try them for convictions and start building some 6ft by 6ft cells for prisoners with nothing in them exept straw for bedding and lock em up for 23.5 hours a day,it would save the country billions a year to build hospitals and lets face it -if you done a year or two locked up like that ,would you want to re offend as soon as you were released ?

spoonlamp · « **Reply #37 on:** 25 November 2012, 05:22:33 pm »

* spoonlamp smiles politely, steps backwards out of room, closes door quietly

VNA - BMW Wank · « **Reply #38 on:** 25 November 2012, 06:27:44 pm »

Quote

this country needs to grow some balls and tear up the human rights bill and the eec court of appeal and send all these terrorists back to the countries wanting to try them for convictions and start building some 6ft by 6ft cells for prisoners with nothing in them exept straw for bedding and lock em up for 23.5 hours a day,it would save the country billions a year to build hospitals and lets face it -if you done a year or two locked up like that ,would you want to re offend as soon as you were released ?

What a load of bollocks. The human rights act is a simple and fantastic piece of legislation, however interpretation and implementation of that act has not always been perfect. I think those who rant about human rights legislation seem to forget our recent history and our long struggle for a just society.

As for certain cases relating to alleged terrorists living in the UK, whom we are told are apparently a threat to the UK, I agree the UK needs to grow balls. If these people have committed crimes in our country, if they are indeed a threat to this country, then they should be tried in this country. It's about time the UK stopped trying to export justice to dodgy dictator lead states with no or barely functioning legal systems. Yes there are people taking the piss out of the UK becuase the UK does not have the balls to do what it should be doing. It's shameful.

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it would save the country billions a year to build hospitals and lets face it -if you done a year or two locked up like that ,would you want to re offend as soon as you were released ?

Look don't kid yourself. This story is of little consequence, but I'm sure certain politicans and newspapers will try and use it to draw out attention from the real issues that are effecting our economy and effecting us all. If you wanna start building homes, schools, hospitals, invest in infrastructure and get this country working again, then we need to go after the tax dodgers, tighten up the tax laws on buisiness and make sure everybody is paying their share as well as replacing the minimum wage with a living wage. That's why we are getting shafted, that's where the real money is, but hey as long as people are dumb enougth to get distracted by rants about votes for prisoners and benefits cheats etc etc, well nothing will change and we'll just get shafted more and more.

Doh!

alan09 · « **Reply #39 on:** 25 November 2012, 07:27:58 pm »

It is also truth that the worse conditions in a prison are, the worse people come out of that prison. Less likely to integrate into society..
simples init dont let the cnuts out

Grahamm · « **Reply #40 on:** 25 November 2012, 09:04:46 pm »

Quote from: Tori on 24 November 2012, 02:14:01 pm

Prison should be a locked room 24/7 except to shower/eat. Rest of the time, in the room, no tv, no playstation, no snooker table etc.

Yes, because that worked *so* well back in Victorian times when they tried it.

Hell, why don't be bring back breaking rocks or turning a crank or the treadmill too? They worked well in the past, didn't they? After all, that's why we still use them now...

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If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

Right, so how much extra in taxes would you pay to cover the cost of building the extra prisons needed, employing more guards, feeding prisoners for all that extra time and so on which that would involve??

Quote

I think if ^^ were the case, criminals may think a little harder about what it's like inside.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - George Satayana.

Grahamm · « **Reply #41 on:** 25 November 2012, 09:09:39 pm »

Quote from: VNA on 25 November 2012, 06:27:44 pm

I think those who rant about human rights legislation seem to forget our recent history and our long struggle for a just society.

Very true. They also haven't looked back at history and seen *WHY* we have the European Convention on Human Rights.

Maybe they just aren't familiar with terms like "Untermensch"...

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It's about time the UK stopped trying to export justice to dodgy dictator lead states with no or barely functioning legal systems.

Or, indeed, *supporting* dodgy dictator lead states (Pinochet, Mubarak, Al Saud...)

VNA - BMW Wank · « **Reply #42 on:** 25 November 2012, 09:15:59 pm »

Indeed we are world leaders in supporting despots, dictators and terrorists. Good to see DC back touring the middle east touting and trying to sell em yet more 'defence' equipment.

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If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

Yeah, and what you gonna do when all the prison guards walk in protest at any such proposal. Straight sentences means no incentive to behave. A nightmare for prisons guards.

Tori · « **Reply #43 on:** 25 November 2012, 11:30:18 pm »

Clearly I'm a bitch for having an opinion. So much for polite debate!

Tori · « **Reply #44 on:** 25 November 2012, 11:34:41 pm »

If they were locked in a cell they could misbehave all they like. There's always a do gooder bleating on about human rights and how we're 'too harsh'. Fine. You pay for it then! I pay tax towards things I'm never going to use, let them have a different tax code when they come out too and pay some of it back!

Incentive to behave my arse.

Lawrence · « **Reply #45 on:** 26 November 2012, 12:10:38 am »

Quote from: VNA on 25 November 2012, 09:15:59 pm

Quote
If you are sentenced to 10 years, you should do 10 years. None of this parole crap. No early releases for 'good behaviour'!

Yeah, and what you gonna do when all the prison guards walk in protest at any such proposal. Straight sentences means no incentive to behave. A nightmare for prisons guards.

How about instead of a reduced sentence for good behaviour, you get an extended one for bad behaviour?

Tori · « **Reply #46 on:** 26 November 2012, 09:20:28 am »

Works for me ;-)

MadDogMcQ · « **Reply #47 on:** 26 November 2012, 10:38:22 am »

Quote from: Tori on 25 November 2012, 11:30:18 pm

Clearly I'm a bitch for having an opinion. So much for polite debate!

Oh come on Tori - It was humour! And it was the prisoner who called you that, not me

I'm with you all the way!

DryRob · « **Reply #48 on:** 26 November 2012, 02:25:13 pm »

We don't need to build extra prisons, have you ever stayed in a Butlins holiday camp? The threat of being sent to one of them would fix this problem overnight.

Seriously though, this is a complex problem and the solutions usually touted by wannabe governments are far too simple to be effective. The alternative of propper prisoner reform costs money and isn't a vote winner so the problem will continue.

Grahamm · « **Reply #49 on:** 26 November 2012, 04:29:37 pm »

Quote from: DryRob on 26 November 2012, 02:25:13 pm

The alternative of proper prisoner reform costs money and isn't a vote winner so the problem will continue.

Which is a shame, because it's been shown to be a lot more effective than the "Get tough, Prison Works!" nonsense touted by politicians who want to pander to the media and to public ignorance rather than actually do something about the problem...

http://www.restorativejustice.org.uk/