Author Topic: Jittery at low revs (Read 11777 times)

red98 · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 August 2012, 08:18:12 am »

Quote from: darrsi on 27 August 2012, 12:56:07 am

From memory it was Hi-Flo something, but very ill fitting compared to the K&N, not something that bothered me really, as it's not like it was going anywhere.

A fantastic difference though, i highly recommend it by all means, and you don't even have to clean it for 50,000 miles!!!

thanks for that DARRSI

[size=78%].....if you have been reading my stuttering post you will know ive got a simular problem[/size] $:\$ [size=78%],i noticed it shortly after replacing the filter and it sounds as if we had simular ones [/size]

[size=78%].....iam trying a few other checks at mo but if i fail to cure the stutter i`ll treat it to a k+n [/size]

glad you got yours sorted..............enjoy your fazer

[size=78%] [/size]

darrsi · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 August 2012, 11:56:41 am »

I'm wondering if there's still the possibility that i had a 'faulty' air filter before, or one that just wasn't the right spec that it should've been?

It's not something that i've ever heard of before but you can get faulty parts in absolutely anything!

Whether the paper was thicker than it should've been, i don't know, but it wouldn't take too much to be off to choke the airways like it obviously did!

@red98, why not just take your filter out and run it down the road for a quick test, preferably not in a sand storm?

CRH · « **Reply #27 on:** 27 August 2012, 12:07:33 pm »

makes sense darrs? if it was thicker..restricting air flow ?..then it would richen things up!!!....you could be on to sumat there??....i looked at my o/e filter itook out b4 changing to KnN and the paper is very thin on that?....sooooooooo

darrsi · « **Reply #28 on:** 27 August 2012, 12:40:43 pm »

When you buy something brand new you just presume that it's gonna be okay don't you?

Fortunately, as i've never had this problem before on any bike i've owned i realised that it had only started running rough since i'd changed the filter.

And if you think about it, as time goes on, anything it filters out will make the paper clog even more which is why mine was steadily getting worse.

By jove i think i've cracked it, it's all making perfect sense now!

So for anyone reading this now, the lesson to be learnt is don't bother buying cheaper paper filters, as firstly it makes no economical sense, and secondly there could well be a faulty/off spec batch floating about that can cause you a world of pain.

The K&N not only does wonderful things to your bike, but they're only £30, with a million mile guarantee, and they tell you not to clean it for the first 50,000 miles!!! Happy days!

note: I don't work for K&N by the way, but i do think they should buy me a beer at least

CRH · « **Reply #29 on:** 27 August 2012, 12:43:34 pm »

..........think you should be awarded .....2012 SALESMAN OF THE YEAR AWARD ...for that speech darrs!!!

darrsi · « **Reply #30 on:** 27 August 2012, 12:56:21 pm »

Ha ha

It does make you wonder how many poor sods have gone through a load of trouble because of bad manufacturing though doesn't it?
Like i said earlier if you buy something new you expect it to be good from the off, but with an air filter you can't physically see a problem so it redirects you elsewhere.
I hope red98 finds out that this is his problem too because i think he's just about suffered enough!
I never realised his first post was in March!
His bike won't need servicing for a while though, it's had the full monty done to it

CRH · « **Reply #31 on:** 27 August 2012, 01:10:30 pm »

yes your right what you say?....yam ones arnt cheap!! so i should imagine over 90% of us would opt out for a pattern one??....ok when they brand spanking !! but soon clog up!! like you say mabe thicker paper!!....but KnN is the way to go?...had them in all me bikes so far and only ever cleaned one and re,lubed it!! and that realy didn,t need doing??....yes poor old red as had his share hasnt he??...recon its aged him 10yrs??.....soon be his 60th!!!!!!

....dont f,get a card??

red98 · « **Reply #32 on:** 27 August 2012, 08:31:02 pm »

Quote from: CRH on 27 August 2012, 01:10:30 pm

yes your right what you say?....yam ones arnt cheap!! so i should imagine over 90% of us would opt out for a pattern one??....ok when they brand spanking !! but soon clog up!! like you say mabe thicker paper!!....but KnN is the way to go?...had them in all me bikes so far and only ever cleaned one and re,lubed it!! and that realy didn,t need doing??....yes poor old red as had his share hasnt he??...recon its aged him 10yrs??.....soon be his 60th!!!!!! ....dont f,get a card??

60th cheeky fkr

............................well put darrsi

i agree with it all......all this work would have got me down if it was my sole bike....but i have the thou that puts a smile on my face

[size=78%].....cant see me ever being without a bike....must be something in my blood[/size]

red98 · « **Reply #33 on:** 27 August 2012, 08:37:48 pm »

Quote from: darrsi on 27 August 2012, 11:56:41 am

I'm wondering if there's still the possibility that i had a 'faulty' air filter before, or one that just wasn't the right spec that it should've been?

It's not something that i've ever heard of before but you can get faulty parts in absolutely anything!

Whether the paper was thicker than it should've been, i don't know, but it wouldn't take too much to be off to choke the airways like it obviously did!

@red98, why not just take your filter out and run it down the road for a quick test, preferably not in a sand storm?

yes good tip

i`ll try that once ive had the test ride

elbrownos · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 April 2013, 11:44:32 am »

Old topic I know, but I gotta ask -
Who rides their Fazer at 2000-2500 rpm??
I don't go below 4000 because its rough as guts. I always thought this is because its outside the engine's rev range. Like trying to drive your car at 500rpm. Am I wrong?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #35 on:** 16 April 2013, 12:17:23 pm »

How about when pulling away from a stand still? Or crawling along in traffic that you can't overtake / filter past? Bike is usually idling at 1000-1250 for most of us... I know its being a bit pedantic but there are situations where it will apply.

darrsi · « **Reply #36 on:** 16 April 2013, 12:19:21 pm »

Quote from: elbrownos on 16 April 2013, 11:44:32 am

Old topic I know, but I gotta ask -
Who rides their Fazer at 2000-2500 rpm??
I don't go below 4000 because its rough as guts. I always thought this is because its outside the engine's rev range. Like trying to drive your car at 500rpm. Am I wrong?

Get your carbs balanced and it will feel like a new bike!!!
4000rpm is too high in traffic, and must be annoying as well.

elbrownos · « **Reply #37 on:** 16 April 2013, 07:38:04 pm »

4000 feels perfect to me, its ok down to 3000 and too rough below that. What rpm do you change at? I change up at 5000 (normal riding)

darrsi · « **Reply #38 on:** 16 April 2013, 07:53:23 pm »

Quote from: elbrownos on 16 April 2013, 07:38:04 pm

4000 feels perfect to me, its ok down to 3000 and too rough below that. What rpm do you change at? I change up at 5000 (normal riding)

I just rode home from work and thinking about what you said earlier i looked at my RPM, (not something i normally do), and although i think i only went up to about 40mph due to rush hour traffic my revs didn't even touch 4000rpm!
The needle was bouncing between 2000 and 3400, but running along nicely at about 3200rpm.
So basically it sounds like you are either revving the nuts off it because your carbs are out of sync, or you are riding too aggressively, but my money is on the carbs after what i just saw on my own bike.
I'm not really one for watching the rev counter, i prefer to keep my eyes on who's about to walk out on me or pull out on me instead!

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 April 2013, 08:07:11 pm »

Just read this post and found it interesting, had a few hours spare so went out and got my air filter out to see what it is and the condition of it. Holy crap. The filter wasn't too bad, a bit dirty but nothing major for being on there almost a year but the airbox had loads of emulsified oil in. Not really sure why it was there, I cleaned it out anyway. There was also loads of oil dripping from the spongy bit of the bottom of the filter too so I dried all that out and applied a thin smearing of new oil. It's not a K & N one and I will put one of them in if I decide to keep the Fazer (looking likely unless I utterly love the test ride on a supermoto) but it's made a huge difference to how the bike feels low down and has stopped the revs dropping before I pull away.

darrsi · « **Reply #40 on:** 16 April 2013, 08:10:57 pm »

Quote from: Yamazer-92 on 16 April 2013, 08:07:11 pm

Just read this post and found it interesting, had a few hours spare so went out and got my air filter out to see what it is and the condition of it. Holy crap. The filter wasn't too bad, a bit dirty but nothing major for being on there almost a year but the airbox had loads of emulsified oil in. Not really sure why it was there, I cleaned it out anyway. There was also loads of oil dripping from the spongy bit of the bottom of the filter too so I dried all that out and applied a thin smearing of new oil. It's not a K & N one and I will put one of them in if I decide to keep the Fazer (looking likely unless I utterly love the test ride on a supermoto) but it's made a huge difference to how the bike feels low down and has stopped the revs dropping before I pull away.

I had that 2 air filters back, took the filter out and was met with a pool of mustard!

darrsi · « **Reply #41 on:** 16 April 2013, 08:15:37 pm »

This was it, quite a bit of it too, then not long after i put a K&N in:

domtrails · « **Reply #42 on:** 16 April 2013, 08:19:10 pm »

Sounds like one of either two things - could be the fuel so your carbs need to be balanced, easy if you have the gear and know how but a cheap mechanic fix if not but before that whip off your tank and have a look at the filter it sounds like a breathing problem if the bike is oldish then it will be pushing oil up into the filter and need regular cleaning and or change it for an after market you should notice a nice change in the pickup around 6500 with a k&n or something similar - but buy the cleaning kit and clean it every 2000 or you will have issues again.

Enjoy your ride bro.

darrsi · « **Reply #43 on:** 16 April 2013, 08:29:03 pm »

Quote from: domtrails on 16 April 2013, 08:19:10 pm

Sounds like one of either two things - could be the fuel so your carbs need to be balanced, easy if you have the gear and know how but a cheap mechanic fix if not but before that whip off your tank and have a look at the filter it sounds like a breathing problem if the bike is oldish then it will be pushing oil up into the filter and need regular cleaning and or change it for an after market you should notice a nice change in the pickup around 6500 with a k&n or something similar - but buy the cleaning kit and clean it every 2000 or you will have issues again.

Enjoy your ride bro.

You don't clean a K&N every 2000 miles?

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #44 on:** 16 April 2013, 08:51:37 pm »

Yeah Darrsi it looked just like your pic and was a fair bit in there too, all gone now though and straight away the bike is better lower in the revs as I said. I have a list of things I need to do to this bike if I keep it, 2 of which are getting a K & N and getting the carbs balanced which I can do at college or get a mate to do anyway so wont be a huge issue. Its a bit erratic on tick over at the moment but pulls great everywhere else.

darrsi · « **Reply #45 on:** 16 April 2013, 09:00:46 pm »

Quote from: Yamazer-92 on 16 April 2013, 08:51:37 pm

Yeah Darrsi it looked just like your pic and was a fair bit in there too, all gone now though and straight away the bike is better lower in the revs as I said. I have a list of things I need to do to this bike if I keep it, 2 of which are getting a K & N and getting the carbs balanced which I can do at college or get a mate to do anyway so wont be a huge issue. Its a bit erratic on tick over at the moment but pulls great everywhere else.

Before i had my carbs balanced a few months back my bike ran like shit between 2000 and 2500rpm, i had to keep the revs up as it was very jittery, but would pull away absolutely fine from 3000rpm as if there wasn't an issue, which is why i've suggested the carb balance to @elbrownos.
Once it's all balanced the bike is smooth in any gear and at low revs, and is much easier to handle.
It's one of those things that drifts out over time, so it's not really obvious until it becomes silly.

domtrails · « **Reply #46 on:** 16 April 2013, 09:55:24 pm »

K&N filters are the same as any other filter and hence need cleaning as any other filter needs cleaning thats what they do filter the air and need to be cleaned, i like ,y bike to breath and drink with the least resistance so I clean my filters every 2000km change my oil every 3000 and balance my carbs at the same time but its just a weekend toy and hence boot too many km done.

darrsi · « **Reply #47 on:** 16 April 2013, 10:36:51 pm »

Quote from: domtrails on 16 April 2013, 09:55:24 pm

K&N filters are the same as any other filter and hence need cleaning as any other filter needs cleaning thats what they do filter the air and need to be cleaned, i like ,y bike to breath and drink with the least resistance so I clean my filters every 2000km change my oil every 3000 and balance my carbs at the same time but its just a weekend toy and hence boot too many km done.

Not according to their own advert, first clean at up to 50,000 miles for starters!
I've noticed by your bike photo' that your filter is not the "drop in the air box" type, so i don't know if that's to do with it?

http://www.knfilters.co.uk/filtercharger.aspx?gclid=COzDnKuS0LYCFRLLtAodbRIAGQ

domtrails · « **Reply #48 on:** 17 April 2013, 06:50:41 am »

no I have taken the air box out of mine its true but I had a K&n in the air box before, if the conditions are perfect and the bike brand new then OK go for it but I would take it out after say 2-3000 km and have a look you will have oil from the breather pipe and general detritus from the air. Filters do not self clean and if you want your bike to breath easily cleaning them is essential.
Do they really say every 50,000km that is a rather outlandish claim and bad marketing for the cleaning materials..

darrsi · « **Reply #49 on:** 17 April 2013, 07:12:15 am »

Quote from: domtrails on 17 April 2013, 06:50:41 am

no I have taken the air box out of mine its true but I had a K&n in the air box before, if the conditions are perfect and the bike brand new then OK go for it but I would take it out after say 2-3000 km and have a look you will have oil from the breather pipe and general detritus from the air. Filters do not self clean and if you want your bike to breath easily cleaning them is essential.
Do they really say every 50,000km that is a rather outlandish claim and bad marketing for the cleaning materials..

Click on the link i provided, and it starts with 50,000 miles.
Which is a pretty damn good start for a Fazer i reckon, and they say not to clean them before that too.
Bearing in mind conditions over here are cooler, and relatively dust free in comparison to countries that actually have heat more than 1 month a year!