IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended?

[Grahamm]

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

 So you think non-IAM riders like me and the rest of the unwashed don't know when it's safe to push the limits then.   

Oh look, it's Phil TK with the massive chip on his shoulder about the IAM again.

No, Phil, that's not what I think, but you can't see past your prejudices and once again you've confirmed that there's no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion of the subject with you, so excuse me if I decide not to waste any more time on you.

[Grahamm]

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

That post is fairly offensive to anybody who isn't IAM. As Phil says, just because you're not IAM, doesn't mean you're not a safe rider. Equally so, being IAM doesn't mean you don't ride like a twat sometimes.

As I mentioned in the post above, Phil has a big chip on his shoulder about the IAM (look for the previous time the subject came up for details).

If I could be bothered I might be offended by his attitude and the way he constantly, deliberately misunderstands what I've said, but it's just not worth it.

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group, mostly because I need it for something else I'm planning to do - it will be interesting to see what the guys in that group are like...

Good for you, yes, there may be idiots in that group, just as there are some idiots in every group, but make up your own mind on the subject, don't go in there with certain expectations just because of something someone else has said.

[Grahamm]

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group,

I've done the same here in Kent - will let you know I get on...[/quote]

Best of luck! It's good to see some people keeping an open mind :

[Grahamm]

The image of the IAM justs pushes people away.

Or is it just the image of the IAM that some people choose to portray?

What good is the "useful training" when a newbie biker can go to a biker's cafe (or a forum) and hear people slagging off the IAM (or RoSPA or anyone else) as a "sanctimonious etc etc" and think "well, I won't bother with that, then"?

[Grahamm]

Go for it.  The IAM training is, as has been said, all about observation and making progress consistent with the conditions.  Well worthwhile.

As for speeding, on the test the examiner is assessing your observation skills amongst others.  If you exceed the speed limits how can they tell if you saw the limits and ignored them on purpose, or if you missed them completely, and your observation is therefore crap?

I'd think that if you kept doing it in 30 or 40 limits he'd have no qualms about failing you, but if you only do it when it's safe, sensible and necessary to complete an overtake in a prompt and timely manner he'd be fine with that.

My IAM group ride to the law when out officially, but go out with them on a non-official ride and they ride like everyone else - but usually with better planning...

Shh! Someone might be offended...

[Phil TK]

Oh look, it's Phil TK with the massive chip on his shoulder about the IAM again.

No, Phil, that's not what I think, but you can't see past your prejudices and once again you've confirmed that there's no point in trying to have a reasonable discussion of the subject with you, so excuse me if I decide not to waste any more time on you.

 Good, it's not really  the way I wanted to win the arguement, but if that 's what you want. Fine.
 Plenty of others who can carry on with a similar point of view to mine.

[Phil TK]

What good is the "useful training" when a newbie biker can go to a biker's cafe (or a forum) and hear people slagging off the IAM (or RoSPA or anyone else) as a "sanctimonious etc etc" and think "well, I won't bother with that, then"?

A quick addendum.  NOTHING encapsulates the problems of the IAM better than the above quote.

[ghostbiker]

All i can say really is that "I" am a better rider than i was before i did the extra training with IAM. Not saying i am better than anyone else, only that i am better than i was.

all this personal bitching is kind of pointless, i think everyone will agree that any structured extra training is better than no training at all.

im all for training no matter if that is rospa, iam or even going back to a training school for extra lessons or even instructor bassed track time. all of it helps with your skill levels.

With the IAM system i took what i felt was of use and what i was willing to use on a daily ride, some things i didnt take on board (right or wrongly) because i knew i wouldnt stick to it. (for example the sticking to the left gutter on right hand bends, i knew i wouldnt take it to the extreams asked of me on a daily ride by my self)
At some point i want to also do rospa as well, just because i know i still have a lot to learn about riding. even though i have been on bikes pretty much since i was 14 and 90% of that time i have owned a bike.

[sadlonelygit]

i've given this matter a little bit of thought and i boils down to:


trying to teach someone common sense and experience.

the problem with this is, if like me you've managed to survive the 250 learner laws, and a further 30 years and walk without a limp, then it's quite probable that you have acquired both of the above, and that having an IAM mentor (who had points on his license)try to impart his particular view on you really is a case of sucking eggs.
we had an intial sit down to discuss my riding history and he obviously paid no attention as i'm pretty sure i mentioned my motorsport past (moped mayhem/clubman/enduro) as he said i didn't ride fast enough on the first part of my observed ride. you can guess what happened on the second part.

the iam is a club, with it's rituals and rites of passage, it has it's own patch and it's members feel 'righteous'.

and FYI i am a blue badger........because it's my job

[spider]

what a thread.. some truth. sum  bitchin. serrious and funny bits. hope we all meet up one day.  however i am the best rider in the world.  never make a mistake. always have the perfect line and ride. oh and i neva lie

[Grahamm]

What good is the "useful training" when a newbie biker can go to a biker's cafe (or a forum) and hear people slagging off the IAM (or RoSPA or anyone else) as a "sanctimonious etc etc" and think "well, I won't bother with that, then"?

A quick addendum.  NOTHING encapsulates the problems of the IAM better than the above quote.

You know what? I agree. People dismissing the IAM as "sanctimonious etc etc" does nobody any good.

[JZS 600]

There are some twats in it though but I found most very agreeable. Had some good trips as well, the Nurburgring standing out as a favourite even though it scared the sh!t out of me. Not the track, the other people on it from taxis to tour buses!

[richfzs]

but make up your own mind on the subject, don't go in there with certain expectations just because of something someone else has said.

As if anybody wouldn't make their own mind up

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group,

I've done the same here in Kent - will let you know I get on...

Best of luck! It's good to see some people keeping an open mind :


Don't be too patronising now, will you...

Or is it just the image of the IAM that some people choose to portray?

Unfortunately Grahamm, it's you thats portraying the bad image...

[Grahamm]

but make up your own mind on the subject, don't go in there with certain expectations just because of something someone else has said.

As if anybody wouldn't make their own mind up

Sure, everybody takes the time to ascertain the facts and not rely on what they heard from a bloke down the pub or their favourite newspaper or what someone said on a forum...

Or is it just the image of the IAM that some people choose to portray?

Unfortunately Grahamm, it's you thats portraying the bad image...

Yes, of course, it's all my fault, I'm such a sanctimonious etc etc...

[richfzs]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its probably a duck...

[Grahamm]

Y'know, I was talking to this bloke down the pub and he said he'd seen a bird that went cluck and didn't swim, but since I'd never seen a duck I believed him when he said that was what it was...

[pitternator]

I dont get offended at all by people doing the IAm. I would encourage anyone to do it for the safety message. But its when the double standards come in , and this smug self assurance rears its head that I get annoyed.
From my own experiences Graham, do try to realise that no amount of training will make one immune to an accident, or  can make going fast safe. It never will be. My message to anyone is  get safe first, encourage that element of IAM training  , speed will come in time, if thats what you want .We also need to recognise just what do we mean by going " fast" ?..and at what point does one get satisfied they are riding " fast enough"...it will vary for all riders, but at least a speed limit sets some sort of reasonable standard ?
While speed limits can be frustrating and at times ludicrous, they actually do make sense most of the time.These days they still are my benchmark, ever more so with the fecking crap drivers we have in the UK , the road congestion, and ever worsening road surface.

[Grahamm]

But its when the double standards come in , and this smug self assurance rears its head that I get annoyed.
From my own experiences Graham, do try to realise that no amount of training will make one immune to an accident, or  can make going fast safe. It never will be.

And once again I entirely agree because I have never said such a thing and never would.

For example an Observer from my local IAM group recently got wiped out by a drunk driver and was lucky not to lose a leg despite all his experience and observational skills. Another Green Badge holder I know hit a patch of diesel on a roundabout a while back.

Nothing can make you 100% safe, but Advanced Training can add a few percentage points which is surely a good thing.

Unfortunately when people choose (out of ignorance or prejudice etc) to dismiss the IAM or any other such group with sweeping generalisations that are likely to put others off getting advanced training then they aren't helping anyone.

While speed limits can be frustrating and at times ludicrous, they actually do make sense most of the time.

And other times they don't. At the junction of the A32 and the A272 there's a biker's cafe called Loomies. The road there is currently National Limit, but because some idiots have the habit of leaving the cafe (or going past it) with their throttle against the stop and blasting down the road at ludicrous speed, Hampshire Council have decided to make a long section of that road 50mph limit.

Unfortunately, of course, this will have absolutely *NO* effect on said idiots who will ignore that limit as much as they ignored the previous on, it will just affect everyone else.

[Ian-man]

Hi, I did the IAM course with Durham Advanced Motorcyclists, they are pretty relaxed about it all. I am not sure about the Northumbria group, I am sure  they will be fine. However there is always the likelyhood of being a few jobsworths or police impersonators in any of these groups. I went to the Northumbria ROSPA group but found them a bit elitist and you had to wait a year for your test at the time.

I have found the roadcraft that is taught at these groups to have served me well. Like anything else it needs time on the bike and practice. I find at the start of the year I need more concentration to do it right. You never get it right all the time and I ride like a twat sometimes too.

[steeeve66]

well... 2 months since i enrolled and... nothing except a rubbish little book about how to ride, none of which you can't find free on the interweb.

despite enrolling in June it looks like it'll be winter before i meet anyone - not happy.

terrible attitude as well.

[peejay]

Assuming you are still in the north Kent area as per your profile, why don't you email the regional coordinator,
geoff.prettyRGC@iam.org.uk and ask him how long one has to wait to be assigned an Observer.

[steeeve66]

Assuming you are still in the north Kent area as per your profile, why don't you email the regional coordinator,
geoff.prettyRGC@iam.org.uk and ask him how long one has to wait to be assigned an Observer.

Yup, done that (although it wasn't Geoff) and got 'attitude': "yes, sometimes it takes a few months to get going..."

oh really?

[redman]

Wow what a thread,  Thought I would give you my experience of IAM, Ive had my full licence for 4 months after i passed my test I realised I hadnt been trained to an acceptable standard to stay alive on the uk roads. I studied on the net and chose IAM as it appeared to be what I was looking for.  Phoned them up Sefton IAM group Merseyside and luckily an 8 week course commenced from saturday at Formby Fire Station.  I met and was trained by an excellent friendly bunch of people the majority were all class 1 police riders, Ron Haslm track instructors, BMW test riders/motorcycle journalists the skills knowledge and experience they had between them was over 700 years.  They started with the basics taught me the system improved my confidence and skills week by week and I have recently just passed my test, however I wasnt interested in taking a test or passing.  I just wanted to be better trained and thats what I am.  I am ten times the rider I was 8 weeks ago, I am always processing five steps ahead of every situation I ride safer smoother and faster and I would reccomend IAM to anybody who wants to improve there safety and riding skills. However as having a cert ed in teaching myself I know that the quality of your observers and their attitudes will reflect on what you will learn and take away with you...........

[JZS 600]

I'm going to give RoSPA a go in September, see what that's like. No harm in a bit of training I say if you pick up a couple of tips. I did the IAM training 14 years ago and I'm still applying it today to my commute to work and country road rides. Now the boy's started riding at 17, I'm pretty keen for him to get a bit of training too....

[redman]

 
+ 1 as above