Author Topic: an unfortunate incident. (Read 5171 times)

johnakay · « **on:** 22 June 2016, 10:18:59 am »

yesterday I had an unfortunate incident.
I was approaching a mini roundabout as I wait to go straight a head.
a car on the left cross in front of me(nothing wrong in that) but he stopped right in my track I couldn't avoid him so clipped his rear bumper.
just scuff marks on his bumper and my crash bare dented in by about 10mm.
I was traveling at about 15mph so we didn't come off.
this was in whitby and I was going towards the train station a popular bikers cafe.
who would you say is at fault.
personally I think it was 50/50 but the bloke was adamant that it was mine.
I said you blocked my right of way and if you couldn't make it all the way then you shouldn't of crossed.

Grahamm · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 June 2016, 11:33:00 am »

Tricky.

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing that says you shouldn't temporarily block a roundabout, it's not like a Box Junction where you must ensure your exit is clear before you proceed into it.

The question is, then, did he fail to give you priority and should you (could you) have stopped before hitting him which would all depend on your relative positions and speeds when he entered the roundabout.

Personally, when I'm approaching a roundabout, I'm always looking for other traffic and thinking "if that guy coming from the left doesn't stop, will I have to take avoiding action?" and plan for it before it happens.

andybesy · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 June 2016, 11:33:04 am »

I think it's poor form not to clear a junction quickly, as it can cause problems such as this. Sometimes drivers just linger due to distraction when they should be making progress, other times they've entered a junction when their way is blocked.

But ultimately I fear the responsibility lies with the rider, you have to allow enough margin for error such that you can avoid a collision in the event if the unexpected.

Do sympathise, it's a mistake we could all make, and I'm glad you and the bike are okay

Why did he stop?

Andy

johnakay · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 June 2016, 11:44:58 am »

yes I stop and waited for him to turn around and followed me. we just exchange names and address ,that is it.
I dont mind paying as long as it is reasonable.
by the way its an old jag but not classic so no doubt he'll want a full respray of the bumper.
this model...

Val · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 June 2016, 01:42:06 pm »

Quote from: johnakay on 22 June 2016, 10:18:59 am

yesterday I had an unfortunate incident.
I was approaching a mini roundabout as I wait to go straight a head.
a car on the left cross in front of me(nothing wrong in that) but he stopped right in my track I couldn't avoid him so clipped his rear bumper.
just scuff marks on his bumper and my crash bare dented in by about 10mm.
I was traveling at about 15mph so we didn't come off.
this was in whitby and I was going towards the train station a popular bikers cafe.
who would you say is at fault.
personally I think it was 50/50 but the bloke was adamant that it was mine.
I said you blocked my right of way and if you couldn't make it all the way then you shouldn't of crossed.

Why do you say 50/50? Its 100% his fault. That is one of the few cases were Highway Code is very clear:

Rule 185

When reaching the roundabout you should

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights

If he was on the left side you have clear priority and he MUST NOT in any way force you to brake or change direction because of his actions.

Make a claim for new crash bars. Tell him its 100% his fault (which clearly is by Highway Code) and tell him you are not paying anything.Give him your insurance company and tell him to deal with them

Even if it was your fault you still do not need to pay anything. Your 3rd party insurance will cover all.

The worst way of handling that is to admit guilt and start handling that outside the insurance. Never ever do that! Even if its for some small amount say £100 for bumper re-spray. Do not do that.

Because by doing it you will open can of worms here and potential further claims for thousands of pounds. INB4 whiplash claims coming your way two years later for £10000.

Bretty · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 June 2016, 02:23:33 pm »

Isn't it like when someone pulls out on you on a junction. If you hit the side of their car, it's their fault. If they get all their wheels out of the junction and you hit the back of their car it's your fault, as far as proof goes.

In theory, you've driven in to the back of someone that was already on the roundabout. As apposed to them pulling out on you, no? Did you hit the side of his bumper or the back of his bumper?

I will admit, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Millietant · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 June 2016, 02:57:15 pm »

At those slow speeds, I'd suspect the law would have you in the wrong - if you hit the rear section of his car. On the basis that, if you had left sufficient distance between you, relative to your speed, then you would have been able to stop.

It's basically like that on nose to tail bumps, where the driver of the vehicle which hit the rear of the other vehicle is always at fault.

You might (rightly) feel aggrieved, but that's the way it could be.

sadlonelygit · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 June 2016, 04:01:24 pm »

make him get 3 quotes as well.

However..............i would be claiming off him for damage to your bike as he was clearly in contravention of rule 185, plus he forced you to take avoiding/evasive action, which puts him in the wrong. was the road damp, low sun etc.

1st rule of a RTC is never admit responsibility. show concern, say 'i'm so sorry. are you OK' but NEVER EVER, BLOODY EVER admit liability.

Jaaaaag drivers are right up there with Audi/BMW owners when it comes to bellendish-ness

taylor · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 June 2016, 05:25:33 pm »

I would guess your fault and he wants a full re spray so it matches perfectly, loss of coulour through sunshine.

Slaninar · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 June 2016, 07:37:11 pm »

If you have video, or witnesses that he got in front of you, blocking your right of way, then you could prove yourself to be innocent.

johnakay · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 June 2016, 08:10:25 pm »

it was roughly 15 yards or so maybe less,short distance so no time to get out of the way.[/size]if I had been careless with my throttle and open up to go quick I would've come off but I kept the bike upright.its one of those mini roundabout.driver came from the left of me and I already started to move when he to moved.very busy road and tail backs etc due to road works at the top of the bank going out of whitby.it looks as though he stopped and left a gap for cars turning right on his left,thus partially blocking my path.my understanding is that the driver shouldn't of entered in the area unless it was clear.?it was a supper facial damage most of it could be polished out but no doubt he'll want a full respray of the bumper.also there was some marks on the other side of the bumper which wasn't done by me.yes I know no excuse but there ya go shit happens.

johnakay · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 June 2016, 08:15:41 pm »

neither of us admitted anything.
with having no witness's I could come up that he tried to get in front blah blah.
to tell you the truth it happened so quick so not so sure what happened.

Skippernick · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 June 2016, 08:25:27 pm »

That last description would put it down as his fault, his way was blocked and your way was clear until he put a shitty jag shaped block in the way. Common courtesy says don't block other peoples progress if there way is clear.

johnakay · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 June 2016, 05:43:08 pm »

thanks for the replies...
got a phone call this morning through answer phone as we were not in.
he shopped around found the cheapest respray £204 and said that if doesn't hear from me he will then call the insurance.
now I'm not trying to avoid anything but why withhold his no??
I cant contact him as I've lost the card with his details.and if he does go through with the insurance what are they gonna do??
its his words against mine and I'll have no problem mustering a few witness.
so the question is the insurance how and what can they do??

Slaninar · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 June 2016, 07:16:51 pm »

In my country: if it's a split responsibility/fault, insurances are free - no one gets anything. Not sure about British laws. But traffic law says it's his fault - if you have reliable witnesses. If not, you hit him in the back, your fault, no matter what you say. Unless he's stupid enough to admit pulling all the way in front of you quickly. There was a guilty charge in my country with that statement. The guilty driver said: "he hit me in the rear, it must be his fault, I quickly pulled all the way in front of him so hi hit me straight in the rear (LOL)". The driver behind confirmed: "It's true, he pulled all the way in front of me, I had no time to break, so I hit him".

sadlonelygit · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 June 2016, 07:20:34 pm »

his excess will be more than that, so i would be tempted to wait him out. also, if you do not contact your insurance, it turns into a civil suit which means a nightmare for his insurance company as all they can do is write you rude letters whilst you claim HC rule 185.
you hold all the aces and he's trying to call your bluff.

Punkstig · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 June 2016, 08:08:55 pm »

Bollox - he's pulled out on you on a roundabout failing to give way to the right- that's the story stick to it!

slappy · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 June 2016, 08:23:41 pm »

Aren't you supposed to inform your insurance of any accident even if you aren't making a claim?

johnakay · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 June 2016, 09:35:19 pm »

he was on the left at the roundabout and from what I can remember we both pull out at the same time so in theory I had right of way.
he stopped because he couldn't go any further as there was a que and he left a gap on his left for those on his left wanting to go right.
I have no intention of contacting my insurance and I dont see why I should.
at the end of the day its his words against mine.

Punkstig · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 June 2016, 09:00:38 am »

I've used lampkin and Co several times for my accidents- 01244 525725
I believe several other people on here have used numerous other solicitors or accident compensation companies so the choice is yours, if he's saying it's not his fault though you'll have to get representation from either your insurance or one of these companies!

sadlonelygit · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 June 2016, 10:52:29 am »

Quote from: slappy on 24 June 2016, 08:23:41 pm

Aren't you supposed to inform your insurance of any accident even if you aren't making a claim?

There is no legal reason to contact your ins co.
however if you do they will automatically load your premium next year regardless if a claim is made.
as has been said and repeated, he pulled across your path, there are no witnesses, end of!

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 June 2016, 11:05:42 am »

You both had the right of way at the time you both pulled out. His stopping means you have to stop. You didn't. Your fault I am afraid.

Skippernick · « **Reply #22 on:** 25 June 2016, 11:34:20 am »

Why did the car driver have right of way, you give way to your left. If they both crossed the give way line at the same time then its the car drivers fault.

darrsi · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 June 2016, 12:04:21 pm »

Why were you in the right lane if you were going straight on?
If he was on your left, then maybe he thought you were turning right because of your positioning.

Just a thought.

Grahamm · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 June 2016, 01:59:47 pm »

Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 25 June 2016, 11:05:42 am

You both had the right of way at the time you both pulled out. His stopping means you have to stop. You didn't. Your fault I am afraid.

It depends how close johnakay was to the roundabout. If the driver could have seen johnakay coming then he should not have proceeded onto the roundabout because johnakay would have priority. 100% the driver's fault.

If he could have seen that the car's path would be blocked, he probably shouldn't have proceeded, but it's not illegal, so the question is could johnakay have seen the driver moving forward and braked in time. If not, then it's 50/50 IMO.

If johnakay was going too fast to stop or failed to observe the car blocking his path, probably 100% his fault (IANAL etc)

PS the correct term to use is "priority". "Right of way" actually just means the right to "pass and re-pass across a piece of land", but "priority" means you have the right to go first.