Camera Questions

[Hedgetrimmer]

Time to up my game from a dig compact, as I now feel ready to get a bit more serious about my photography. The compact will stay on as a handy point and snap job. My main subject is landscape work. Can you recommend a good entry-level DSLR, and perhaps a couple of lenses to go with it? (I gather wide-angle is the preference for landscape?).Want to shoot in RAW, so am also thinking about investing in Lightroom software - is that a good starting point? Should I also consider mirrorless cameras, as I have been hearing one or two good reports on some (Sony NEX7?), and they seem to be a little less bulky and heavy than more traditional DSLRs? Pros and cons? Price range: I will be considering 2nd hand, so probably top out somewhere in the region of £400 for camera, plus lenses? Reasonable for a starting point, or should I think about/need to be spending more? Any new ones to consider in that bracket? Any other equipment I should consider as essential? Any books/publications you can recommend, specifically on landscape photography, which might help me on my way? Have subscribed to a landscape photography e-magazine for now. All help appreciated.

[fazersharp]

Canon cameras that can shoot raw come with good raw editing software but at some stage you will be converting to jpeg and perhaps some extra tweaking software may be useful from there. You may find that when working with raw that you will also have to upgrade your computer and storage as raw are big files. For landscape you will also find a tripod can broaden your creative abilities. A wide zoom should do you.   

[brooker81]

just bought a nice canon g7x compact point and shoot camera very impressed indeed so far saves dragging the slr around with me.

[Kosmic Kartman]

I use a Nikon D7100 as my main work horse and have always used Nikons so can't speak for other makes. IMO a DX sensor and something in the region of 24mp is fine. Word of warning your picture image will depend on the glass you put in front of the sensor. My back up bodies which are 12mp are still pretty sharp with some Nikon kit lenses fitted but stick the kit lenses in front of 24mp you can see their shortcomings. I'll add that if you are just printing out at up to A3 then 12mp and kit lens... depending on type of lens should be fine as long as you're not a pixel counter. Some kit lenses are sharper than others. With landscapes I would go for the best glass you can afford.

I've just finished upgrading all my kit glass for Pro glass and the difference is noticeable. A prime lens (fixed focal length) will mostly always give a sharper image than a zoom... even pro zoom, though pro zooms are far better than kit zooms.

As mentioned tripod, plus remote trigger come in handy as do neutral density filters. And yes, shoot in RAW and save files as TIFF if storage is not a problem. Only convert to JPEG if posting to web or storage is a problem. Tip. Most printers are optimised for output at 360dpi and not 300dpi. So before any editing convert files to 360dpi at the correct file size for printing.

With landscapes also look on web for Back Focus techniques, settings and camera set up. Useful when composing shots on and off tripod and for shooting moving wildlife.

Lightroom is good as is Photoshop, the later being a bit more expensive but you can hire both on a monthly basis if you don't want to buy licence to use outright (You don't get a hard disc anymore with Adobe software). Doing this may also give you chance to try out both software.

Re books. I often refer to "Complete Guide to Digital Photography" by Ian Farrel (ISBN 978-0-85738-548-2). It cover all aspects of digital photography that you could think of, and even though I've been using Photoshop for about 30 years I still find it a brilliant book for quick reference if I haven't use a filter or something else related in a while. Photoshop is a vast leviathan of a programme and I still can't get my head around all the things this software can do. There are also lots of tips and tutorials for editing software on the net.

How to cheat in Photoshop is also a good book but aimed more at digital illustration and manipulation.

[devilsyam]

Sound advice which I'll add few bits having also used nikons and lens got cheesed of with never having rite lens with me and the portable side of them so ended up with a bridge camera fuji xs-1 mega zoom and portable don't over look canon g series 15 I think there on now but g11 were noted as good cameras good site to also look at www.ken rock well. Com

[mickvp]

another snippet of advice which definately applies if you go down the Nikon route is to make sure you buy a body which has the auto focus motor built in (for example a D90). the lowere end cameras like the D40 (and my D3100 and the new D3200) do not have built in auto focus, which means that if you want to retain the automatic focus abilities you need to buy lenses which have it built into them. these are both more expensive, more fragile, and harder to get hold of used (there is also less choices of lenses).

you can of course put a non AF-S lens on, but it means you NEED to manual focus every time. spending an extra couple of hundred pounds on a better body will quickly be made back over the first few lenses - and then if you upgrade the bod later the lenses you have will still be compatible.

[mark g]

Got a Nikon D300 and a bunch of len's, cheap DSLR's these days and more than capable, you don't need loads of Mega pixels to take great pics (Images as the boys like to call them lol) invest some time in a local collage course, I did 2 hrs a night a my local collage and it was free to boot. Books and DVD's are great but I found it was always better when you could actually talk to someone and they could in turn show you how to do things. Light room is advanced, Elements is good enough for post processing........trouble is like most hobby's you will get people who will tell you you MUST have the most expensive kit out the to do any good but truth is a camera is only as good as the guy who's taking the photos....good luck it's a great hobby

[Kosmic Kartman]

Also with non AF-S lenses if the body has no aperture coupling ring you'll also need a separate light meter to get your exposure right.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

It's all down to personal preference me thinks.

I know nothing of Nikon cameras and only about the Canon and Panasonic cameras I own.

Yup there's loads of second hand stuff out there, but I would be wary of e-bay.  I'll only buy from a private individual if I can see the goods before I part with cash.

There are plenty of reputable dealers that sell used cameras and their descriptions are usually very accurate, plus they will give you a warranty and if the camera or lens arrives and you ain't happy you can just send it straight back.

Mifsuds, Ffordes are two I have bought used gear from.  Camtech also looks worth a look.  WEX is also selling used gear now and should be worth a punt.

Get yer stuff together bit by bit.  I mean it's easy to spend 400 quid on a tri-pod or a simple set of filters.  So build up slowly.

CSC?  Yup I've got one.  Bought the original CCS camera back in 2010 (as an end of line deal to try out) the Panasonic G1.  Now replaced with a GH3 sporting a Panasonic 12-35f2.8    Basically use it for hill walking and days out when I can't be bothered with the big bulky Canon stuff.

CSC can be small and fiddly and I can work much faster with a full size camera but when weight and size counts the CSC is brill and the results are pretty darn good.  And despite the size I can still just manage to work it with gloved hands in winter.

I think this photo tells you what you need to know about CSC.  12-25f2.8 on the Panasonic is equivalent to the 24-70f2.8 on the Canon.



G1 with 14-45 kit lens on the left,  Canon 5D with 24-70f2.8 and GH3 with 12-35f2.8 on the right.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Lots of information and tips there, thanks folks 


However, for a beginner, sometimes it all seems a bit bewildering, because there is so much information to try to take in before splurging what is, after all, a not inconsiderable sum of money.


But you have all given me a list of things to look for, and that will be helpful. I do get the feeling that this is going to cost more than I thought, even going for 2nd hand kit, which is largely what has stopped me from doing this earlier. I think I need to spend more time absorbing the information, more time reading and gaining an understanding of the technical side - which I always feared would never be my strong point.


@fazersharp: I currently use a 1 terabyte hard drive to store much stuff on, so perhaps I could use the Mac to work on current projects but everything else goes on the hard drive? Convert back to jpeg, as you say, for photo albums for my own perusal (assuming I don't end up with a camera that takes simultaneously in RAW and jpeg)?


@Kosmic: the thing about kit-supplied lenses confirms what I have read thus far. Obviously, lens choice is something I will need to be careful about. Sorry, don't know what TIFF is    - a lot to learn? Ohhh yeah    Printers - first I want to learn how to use a decent camera and kit, learn how to improve shots with good photo software. Not sure where this hobby might take me eventually, but commercial work is not in my sights at present. Thanks for the book tip, I'll look for that one.


@devilsyam: had a look through your suggested site - never once does he suggest a set-up for landscape work! So I don't know if the kit he talks about will be the right gear for me.


@mickvp: Good tip on the autofocus, and was something that had been mentioned to me before, so another criteria to look for when buying.


@mark g: college course sounds like a good idea. Once I'm settled after moving, I'll look into what's available locally. Know what you mean though; books don't always answer specific questions that a beginner might come up with.


@VNA: I agree, don't like the idea of buying from ebay myself, never have when it comes to expensive things. Thanks for the recommendations of  where to shop, and will see what might be local to me too. Sorry, what's CSC?    Another term for mirrorless? Yes, you really are talking to a n00b here     Won't be buying everything at once, as you say; To start with, I need ONE camera, and perhaps a couple of lenses - so I've got to find one that won't be silly money, will be versatile, relatively user friendly, but at the same time will give me enough manual capability to learn my way around settings and what does what. If I take to all this, I can always upgrade at a later time.

[fazersharp]

A TIFF is a way of saving an image without any compression with the idea that you dont loose any quality like you do with a jpeg, but I have done extensive tests with jpegs and found that a small compression setting has no visible effects on the quality and will save masses of space.

Take in raw if you want
Dump the crap ones and keep the good save onto a HD
then colour correct in a raw program
then convert to jpeg and further tweak
Save a enjoy your masterpiece as a jpeg

So you will end up with 1 untouched original file that you can always go back to and then a edited smaller jpeg for everyday use
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

One thing I would say about autofocus is that you have to tell it what to focus on.

CSC - compact system camera.

I think you want a body and a standard zoom to start with.  Then maybe add a standard fixed lens, a 35mm or 50mm (that's 135 film terms - or equivalent if using a smaller format).  It's always a good exercise to head out now and again with just one standard or just wide of standard fixed lens and shoot everything with it.  Zooms make you lazy, stuck with one fixed lens you start working and thinking.

I went on holiday once for two weeks once with a film camera and just a 50mm lens.  Came back with loads of nice shots.   You don't necessarily need loads of lenses. 

My GH3 Panasonic has the 12-35f2.8 stuck on the end of it - it's the only lens I take when I go out walking.  Keep getting tempted to add a 7-14f4 but it's more stuff in the bag. 

But seriously get a body and one lens (standard zoom perhaps) and start taking snaps.

Oh my finished photos I keep across three hard drives.  The raw stuff I'm not fussed about, if the drive dies it dies.

Google is your geek;

Tiff - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagged_Image_File_Format

Jpeg - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG

RAW - is the raw data from the camera sensor - each camera has it's own raw format.

I shoot raw and save the finished file as 8 bit TIFF (no compression)

I post JPEG on the internet. (compressed file)   Some publications ask for jpeg others want TIFF.  I print from TIFF files.

[mickvp]

If your not on talk photography you should get yourself signed up over there as well Nick. Besides having some good information if you use the search function, the sales section is usually pretty active and as its a forum that a lot of members put time and effort into, there's not so many chancers as eBay etc.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Anyone know if there is a good mirrorless camera that works well in low-light conditions? Sony A7R is getting good reviews generally for landscape work, but not good in low light apparently (noisy images). Could be an issue for sunrise/sunset scenes for instance? This is one situation where I'd like to be achieving better detail in, for example, dark foregrounds than I get with my current compact. Also, something that will handle strong light contrast in these situations.


Looking at DSLRs too, and have noted that Canon & Nikon will give me more choice of lenses at lower prices, but just want to see if I need to rule out mirrorless first, because the lower bulk/weight is quite a plus for me.


This site seems helpful:


http://www.switchbacktravel.com/camera


but I notice it only gives examples of Nikons for entry level DSLRs. What would be good Canon (and others) to consider?


The other thing it occurs to me that would be useful once I have the camera etc, is a set of exercises to follow to learn how to use it. A college course would be ideal, but outside of that, anyone know of anything online? I know I should just go out and experiment, but I thought if I had a logical set of steps to go by, it might make things less confusing?

[fazersharp]

You said that you were getting more serious and wanted to step up but I dont think that a mirrorless would be that much of a step and you may soon find yourself wanting a DSLR, go directly to the DSLR.

Noise - when you try and take shots in low light then the camera or you set it has to increase its sensitivity but the side effect of this is that you get noise which looks like speckles or very bitty like grain all over, some cameras are better at handling this than others. A way to avoid it is to use a tripod then you dont need to select a high sens setting to get a low light shot as you can use a slower shutter speed instead.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Ok, confession time!


I now have a camera.
Canon EOS100D. New. Only with supplied kit lens at present, as I want to get using without too much complication.


I went to a local camera specialist, and chatted with him for over an hour, and it dawned on me that I would never be able to find the perfect camera for me, as I simply don't know enough about DSLRs or mirrorless - how could I if I've never used one?! So I put some of the points that you guys have mentioned to him, and some I've picked up elsewhere, explained what I currently want to achieve, and listened to what he had to say.
I kept in mind the whole time that he is a salesman, but having listened to what I want to do, he didn't try to point me in the direction of the most expensive kit he had - far from it, I've spent less than I thought I would. He did some discount on a bag and some other bits without me asking - total bill £399. It's actually not much bigger/heavier than a mirrorless job, so that's a bonus - seems quite manageable with it's supplied lens.

The other reason I bought now is that I had started to read up on more and more tech and complicated stuff, and realised that in my mind I was gradually raising the bar price-wise; hang on a minute, I won't have the first idea of how to make the best of all that!

So there you have it - for better or worse, this camera is to be my starting point. Let the criticism begin!

[mark g]

Great choice buddy :-) good luck and happy snapping

[Kosmic Kartman]

Looks like you made a good choice and 18mp isn't to shabby. Only one thing that I would maybe comment on and that's the AF assist being in the flash. Apart from that it looks like a good choice.

Now I need to warn you about a severe illness that inflicts most DSLR users.

In your case it will manifest itself as Canonitus. In may case it's called Nikonitus. Symptoms come in the form of cold sweats when searching the net and camera shop windows looking for your next fix. These windows and web pages will draw you in like a magnet. You leave the house early in the morning looking for that perfect location or shot, often not returning until late in the evening. You'll sit in front of your Lightroom or Photoshop for hours trawling through thousands of photos, deciding what to bin and what to keep.

Welcome to the world of DSLR's and happy shooting

 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Anyone know if there is a good mirrorless camera that works well in low-light conditions? Sony A7R is getting good reviews generally for landscape work, but not good in low light apparently (noisy images). Could be an issue for sunrise/sunset scenes for instance? This is one situation where I'd like to be achieving better detail in, for example, dark foregrounds than I get with my current compact. Also, something that will handle strong light contrast in these situations.

I don't keep up with all the latest cameras etc but it does seem strange that the Sony A7R - which seems keenly priced - is criticised for low light performance.

My G1 wasn't the greatest for low light performance (noise from 400asa) but the GH3 is really quite decent in that respect.

Which is part of the point of CSC - a compact camera that is capable of the same, similar or even better results than bigger DSLR's. 

They may shine more as we see more top notch lenses appearing, like a range-finder camera the lenses sit much closer to the 'film plane' which is one advantage that they have.

I have to say I've only used my G1 and GH3 for walking days out, and not yet used it for set dawn or sunset images so can't comment on it's noise cancelling properties (you need to select noise reduction on a digital camera for long exposures).

Certainly there more and more people using CSC cameras for landscape work as they are much easier to carry up mountains etc, and also you can carry a much lighter tri-pod. 

But they are now serious cameras both in terms of still photography and video.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Well, I hope it works out to be a good choice. I decided not to worry too much about limitations in whichever camera I went for at this stage. I will have my hands full enough getting to grips with learning what DSLRs are generally capable of for now, and I'm sure anything I could have bought at entry level would have had something it wouldn't be the best at. I actually don't think it will get a great amount of use this year, as I have two house moves to deal with - one next week, and then the big one in maybe a couple of month's time.

But once I'm up north, hill fever will be the first affliction to get a hold, with or without a camera! Early starts and late evenings are already very much on my mind, and I'm desperately hoping I can still carry the pack & tent up there for a couple of days at a time; already thinking about carbon fibre tripods    And there are already a couple of places I'm familiar with in the Lake District where I'm thinking, where will the sun be at such and such a time of day, at such and such a time of year? 

Will have to decide what photo software to go for next 

Still got a lot of reading to do, to better understand how to use the thing, so I'll immerse myself in that, and some experimental shots for the time being.

Kosmic, I'm not even going to ask you about "AF assist being in the flash" 

[fazersharp]

  And there are already a couple of places I'm familiar with in the Lake District where I'm thinking, where will the sun be at such and such a time of day, at such and such a time of year? 

 
Kosmic, I'm not even going to ask you about "AF assist being in the flash" 

NOW you are a Landscape photographer


AF assist is when  its too dark for the camera to "see" what it is supposed to be focusing on and so it fires a (in the case of an  EX speedlight an infered light)
Dont know why its a problem

[celticdog]

Can you get flash cubes for this model?

[Hedgetrimmer]

Can you get flash cubes for this model?

I'm probably not the best person to ask on this 


Are flash cubes even a thing anymore? It does have a hotshoe for a separate flash unit, as well as the built-in flash.

[red98]

Nice camera, nice to treat yourself once in a while  ........so........you've bought yourself a new camera and not posted a picture of it     

[Hedgetrimmer]

Nice camera, nice to treat yourself once in a while  ........so........you've bought yourself a new camera and not posted a picture of it     

I can't, I'm a landscape photographer