clutch fixing

[bludclot]

 
hello all
 
my clutch has not been right since i've had this bike. i adjusted the cable (at 21k) and this improved matters no end but last time out on the bike i had to hold the lever right to the bar to keep the bike still while in gear. only half a mil out and the bike started creeping forward. bike has 22k on the clock.
 
having read up on here it seems several others have been along this road and there's a plug in the main clutch shaft that comes out and needs putting back in. towards this i removed the outer casing, springs, outer plate and all the inner plates today. i have not found a plug loose inside however.
 
i've never been inside a bike clutch before so my questions might be basic...
 
is this the plug that i'm looking for - in the end of the shaft in its correct place? (red arrowed)
 

 
or do i have to remove more parts?
 
my haynes manual tells me that i have a lot of measuring to do now, any recommendations for a cheap but good vernier caliper?
 
work is a bit thin on the ground right now so i don't have any spare money to pay anyone for this, hence diving in myself into what, for me, is uncharted waters.

[JKay]

http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers/special_buys3_23316.htm in the words of Vinny Jones,Chop ****ing Chop 

[Tmation]

Yes that is the plug that can fall out, yours looks like it is still in place.


There is an adjustment point in the middle of the clutch cable that some people miss, have you adjusted yours there?


I had a problem with my clutch after changing to semi synth, although I think the  oil change was just coincidental. It was very difficult to find neutral at a standtil and it seemed like the clutch would not fully disengage. Had the clutch apart and checked plates, plug etc and found no problems.


Lubricated the cable and adjusted it as per the manual and it was mostly fixed, raising the idle speed another 100 rpm cured the finding neutral problem.

[bludclot]

 
i found some more time for this today and dismantled further. now that i'm this far i'm keen to fix the rattle that happend when my clutch lever is pulled in to the bar. it's not worryingly loud but it's not quiet either, my r6 certainly didn't rattle like it the clutch was silent! at the stage in the picture above the main basket seemed quite solid and rattle free. the inner clutch however rattled when i grabbed it and jiggled it about. so i took them both off hoping to find a loose or worn bearing. no such luck however.
 
my springs have all measured up short of the 50mm minumum that the haynes suggests so i'll order a new set. the plates all measure up within spec so unless you advise otherwise they'll be going back in. is this normal? (for the springs to wear before the plates)
 
so..... any ideas what causes a clutch to rattle when the lever is pulled to the bar? is it these springs in the back of the basket? 2 of them are tight and 2 of them are very loose and rattly.... in fact the gap at the end of the yellow one at 2 o'clock is quite visible.
 

 
or do i need to look elsewhere? i'm stuck now so hoping for help here.
 
 

[ghostbiker]

i could be wrong on this, but dont all gen 1's rattle on the clutch with it pulled in? i know mine dose and so dose the others i have ridden.

[Falcon 269]

3 yellow, 2 plain, 1 blue spring?

I don't know for sure but that doesn't look right to me.  If one of the springs is obviously loose, figure that as a strong contender for source of the rattle. 

Maybe take that part to a local Yamaha dealer or bike shop you trust and get a second opinion?

[The Male Whale]

Carbs needing balancing can cuase clutch basket rattle.

Whale

[bludclot]

 
since the post above i've read various internet musings on the subjects of basket springs and clutch rattles. the consensus is that these springs, when loose, cause the rattles and they can be shimmed or replaced and the rattles disappear until they wear again. however, to shim or replace the springs in a basket it has to be separated by drilling out the rivets and then tig welded back together, a job that i'll be hading over to my trusted mechanic tomorrow. i'll post back his thoughts on the matter.
 
apparantly there are gaps at the spring ends in new baskets, though nobody ventures any guesses as to why. not gaps like mine however, others measure their's with feeler gauges!
 
this is not just a yamaha design or problem, other manufacturers seem to suffer this too.
 
as for the spring colours it's stranger than it first appears - the yellow is only on part of the loose springs - move them round and they can be 'spring' coloured! judging from fastener heads and the like i'm first in here - so i'm pretty sure that what i've pulled out has been in the bike from new and probably done the indicated (and service history carroborated) 22k miles.
 
i can't believe that i'm the first gen 1 owner to walk this path? surely there's more knowledge on this available? i don't suppose anyone has (or has access to) a new basket and can post up whether the springs in it are tight? i have 2 tight and 4 with about 2.5mm movement gap.

[bludclot]

 
my mechanic offered 2 solutions to my basket case - either tig weld the loose springs to the basket or make up some shims, slot them in the spring ends to take up the gap and tig weld them to the basket. i chose the second option. should be back with me next week, i'll re-assemble and post back on rattles and ride.

[bludclot]

 
this was the basket having had the four loose springs welded at the ends opposite to that of the front of normal rotation so that the welds push on the springs and don't get pulled apart...
 

 
i fitted this along with a 'silky glide' clutch cable (the length of the cable is a good fit, the handlebar end was too fat, i had to drill out the adjuster to take it) new genuine springs, tab washer and gasket.
 
i started and rode it today. my clutch bite point is now perfect. the bike rides and feels perfect, the welded springs have made no discernable difference to clutch action or gear change. crucially, the rattle when in neutral is down to about a quarter of the volume it was before. seeing as (disappointingly) it's still audible i rode it to my mechanic for him to have a listen. 'that's plates rattling in the basket' he said, 'symptomatic of a twenty thousand mile clutch.'
 
the action of the new cable is a little more 'grainy' feeling than i would like. anyone have a genuine cable they want rid of?
 
 

[bludclot]

 
now that i've ridden it a few miles and started and stopped the engine a few times and adjusted the cable to perfection the rattle when the lever is pulled in has completely disappeared. i put this down to the clutch re-bedding in.