Quick straw poll - the welfare £26K cap - good or bad?

[Raymy]

fact is that they DO have 4 kids and are unable to support them - what would you do??
 

[Raymy]

[Robbie8666]

I must admit I do know of people that are part like I described and just merged them together!
 
 

[Gingernutz]

Good to see even the liberal lot on here won't argue with the concept. £35k for doing foc all is criminal. Did you see the 'example' on TV they dragged out to say it wasn't fair my taxes should keep her in a house that looked a lot nicer than mine cos she doesn't want to move away from her firends? Foc off you sponging twat. The people who are paying for your lifestyle have to move house to find work.
Andy - I know this is only £250M - but thats enough money to run a large NHS Trust for a year. As for tax dodgers I have another idea.
In 1985 in Ireland they brought in a rule whereby if you shopped a tax dodger you got 10% of his back taxes. I reckon this would go down a storm.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Tax dodging, billions upon billions of pounds of it, is legal in the UK.  And that ain't gonna change. 

A saving of 250 million, which is somewhat optimistic, by comparison, is a drop in the ocean.

it wasn't fair my taxes should keep her in a house that looked a lot nicer than mine cos she doesn't want to move away

She doesn't get the cash.  The landlord does.  Good old Tory policy.  Your taxes go straight to the rich Tories.  And that, my friends, ain't gonna change.

Foc off you sponging twat.

Np foc off you Tory sponging bastards.

[adeejaysdelight]

She doesn't get the cash.  The landlord does. 

 
Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a landlord. I once rented one of my flats out to my ex-mate of 26 years, who is a dole-scum-good-for-nothing. The "social" as we call them in Glasgow (Jobseekers, benefit people...) paid the rent money to him, which he was in turn to pay to me. The do noy pay the landlord directly. They do this in order to give some sence of resposability to to worthless scum they are supporting. Make them feel like they are part of it. I once went along with my ex-mate to meet his assigned worker. She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat. Needless to say my ex-mate Fuc**d off with 4 months rent money, left my flat a stinking mess, and left me to sort all the bills and pay the mortgage. So don't give me all that pi*h about wealthy landlords. Go speak to one and get your facts straight.

[oldmotherfoccer]

She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat.

that is happening in Doncaster to a mate of ours, he rents his dads house out to 2 girls on social, at xmas they got the money from social but asked if there was anymore money as they has bills to pay and presents to buy, they told them to not pay the landlord all the money, keep what they needed to pay for other things, as it would be more hassle than it was worth to chase them for the money and the landlord could claim it back at £5 per week !!!!!!!!! (he is not a rich tory, his dad is in care, and he cannot leave the house empty it will get broken into, or sell it, as his father will not let it be sold, so he thought he would rent it out

[Raymy]

VAN. it used to be that dss rent would go to landlord In glasgow but its now changed as dj delight says. Kinda screws the landlord cos they used to advertise as no dss even tho they were guaranteed the cash. not so now

[DILLIGAFF]

In the "bad" old days, if you had a child outside of marriage or an unexpected pregnancy it was socially frowned upon and the mother and child had to live with the parents and make do............................. = deterrent


Nowadays under age girls are almost encouraged to get pregnant and then given a nice council house and handouts............... + reward.


The government has a policy of trying to increase the input to the taxation pot.
Immigration and an increase in births are a good way to do this if all the extra citizens get jobs and pay taxes. Unfortunately this is not always the case and as a previous poster noted there must be something wrong when people can get money from the system when they have never paid anything in???


Delboys manifesto.........


1. Leave school with no qualifications (because you were too busy doing drugs)............................ NO DOLE.
2. Commit any criminal offence while on social security..................................................................... NO MORE DOLE
3. Immigrants, get convicted of any criminal offence in your first 3 years here.................................. DEPORTED
4. Social security payments to be for 12 months then require a strict review and proof of job applications before renewal.
5. Set up workshops where the unemployed could be utilised for the production of anything rather than doing nothing. However menial this may be it would help to develop a work ethic and encourage them to seek more fulfilling employment.
6.  Pay benefits with vouchers and NOT cash.

[pitternator]

Your point number 1 is actually extremely offensive. Just because some kids leave school with no qualifications does not make them drug addicts. You make yerself a fool to say that. Not everyone is capable of passing written exams. Often they have good vocational skills, but due to dyslexia or other problems cannot put their thoughts and ideas onto paper.They simplycannot pass exams of th etraditional kind..Maybe leave this sort of thing to eductional professionals??...who know what they R talking about.
 
generally this government R doing a fine job of loading the blame for all the countries woes onto the poor, the uneducated and the unemployed. Nice as it shifts attention away from the rich and the banks !..let alone the insane cost of the last 10 yrs spend on wars and defence...

[chilly]

WHY IS THE BASTARD CHURCH GETTING INVOLVED? JUST FUCKING WELL FUCK RIGHT OFF YOU BUNCH OF KIDDY FIDDLING BASTARDS!!!!!!!! THE JEREMY KYLE CLASSES SHOULD BE TRIMMED TO THE BONE IN THE FINANCIAL SENSE BUT IM SURE SOME CASES ARE GENUINE AND THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN ARE NOW UP SHIT CREEK SANS PADDLE. I GET SO ANGRY COS I HAVE LOST MY JOB THROUGH REDUNDANCY AND COMPANY RELOCATION FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. WE MANAGED TO GET THROUGH BECAUSE I WENT OUT AND FOUND WORK. I CAN PROUDLY SAY I NEVER CLAIMED A BEAN FROM MY FELLOW TAX PAYERS. WE ENDED UP IN DEBT AND NOW HAVE NO SAVINGS BUT ARE BACK IN THE BLACK (JUST) THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE IF THE SCROUNGING BASTARDS WOULD LOOK

[adeejaysdelight]

She did not know I was the landlord. He told her he was hard-up for money. She told him to keep the rent money as the landlord could do nothing about it for 3 months, and even after that, the court costs are so high that most don't bother chasing it, they just evict you and we'll get you another flat.

that is happening in Doncaster to a mate of ours, he rents his dads house out to 2 girls on social, at xmas they got the money from social but asked if there was anymore money as they has bills to pay and presents to buy, they told them to not pay the landlord all the money, keep what they needed to pay for other things, as it would be more hassle than it was worth to chase them for the money and the landlord could claim it back at £5 per week !!!!!!!!! (he is not a rich tory, his dad is in care, and he cannot leave the house empty it will get broken into, or sell it, as his father will not let it be sold, so he thought he would rent it out

 
 
 
 
I own 3 properties, one of which I live in. I have worked damn had for everything I have. Born with nothing and I still have most of it left  . I have only rented out to DSS once, and that was because it was to my mate of 26 years, and he still fuc**d me. People who get things for free take no pride in them.
 
 
I would NEVER rent to a jobless dole scum again. Recently I advertised my pad for rent on gumtree, clearly stating NO DSS. Still, these F**king idiots email asking if I will take DSS, or why I won't take DSS. I say, "Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."
 
 
As you can tell, I have a chip on my shoulder about these people. But I'm ok with that, because I pay around £800 PCM in TAX and NI, and I think that entitles me to have an opinion. I paid for it. And if anyone has a beef with thet, they can f**k right off too.
 
 
Ahh, I feel much better

[Raymy]

Are you In or around glasgow dj? I'm looking. I must warn you tho, I get a government payout every fortnight

[BBROWN1664]

Many years ago BC (before children) we used to rent out rooms in our house to help pay the bills when I was a lowly apprentice. At that time the DSS paid the landlords direct but didn't pay it all. You still had to chase the people for the rest. In the end I would tell the DSS the rent was £10a week more than it was to get the lot from them instead as it was painful getting cash out of dope heads and drunks who would get their money one day and it would be pissed up the wall by the end of the day,
I lived in the house so it wasn't too difficult to control. I wouldn't have taken DSS people if I didn't live there though as simple things like cleaning the feccin cooker after they spilled crap all over it was hard enough when you saw then a few times a week!

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

She doesn't get the cash.  The landlord does. 
 
 
 Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am a landlord.

 
 So you have all my tax money!     The bulk of the cash is intended for the Landlord.  How it gets there, or doesn't, I never commented on.
 
 But what we have is tax payers forking out for inflated rents paid to people with money invested in property.  This all comes back to Maggie selling off the council stock, the privatisation of the welfare state.
 
 Meanwhile non of you care or want to do anything about the big money, the 100's billions pounds evey year that rich people avoid in taxation every single year.  The kind of money that can get this country out of the mess that's it 's in.
 
And here's another thought for you all.  There was a nice picture of Crazy Dave Cameron at Asda's head quarters in my paper today surrounded by Asda staff.  Apparently Asda is spending 500 million on an expansion programme and creating 6000 jobs.  Great news what?  Now I'm wondering what this expansion is, but assuming it's within their usual retail business model, well that means 6000 low paid jobs, just above the minimum wage but below the living wage.  Therefore it's another 6000 jobs that the tax payer will have to subsidise with welfare payments.
Why the hell do we continue to put up with subsidising the wage bill of stinking rich national and international companies?    Is it not about time people in full time employment were paid a living wage, particularly when they are employed by a multi million/billion pound business. 
The whole system is fucked, and nobody has any intention of doing anything about it. 

Delboys manifesto.........

And yes one government policy for pulling the wool over our eyes is to run the agenda.  Favourites are welfare, immigration, human rights, anything that with the help of the rich press barons will keep us from wising up to how the economy really works, and who it works for.  Divide and rule.

In the "bad" old days, if you had a child outside of marriage or an unexpected pregnancy it was socially frowned upon and the mother and child had to live with the parents and make do............................. = deterrent

In the bad old days girls that got pregnant outside of marriage were considered to be mentally ill, after the child was taken from them at birth they were then placed in mental asylums were many remained for the rest of their lives.

[Sunny Intervals]

Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."

That's me tarred then 

[adeejaysdelight]

Are you In or around glasgow dj? I'm looking. I must warn you tho, I get a government payout every fortnight

 
 
 
Yes, I am "in or around Glasgow". And if you get a giro, how the f**k can you afford a computer, never mind an internet connection? At least 20% of that is mine. ENJOY!

[adeejaysdelight]

Because you are a worthless piece of sh*t and I would feel physically ill every time I had to come see you to get my rent money. Plus I would probably have to fumigate my house when you move out, because you are so fuc**ng lazy you won't lift a bone-idle finger to clean the place. Now f**k off and get a job and stop using the internet to see what you can get out the system form free..."

That's me tarred then 

 
 
 
 
If I have offended anyone, I honestly don't care. Junkies, Dole-scum and thieves are not entitled to an opinion in my book. I feed your kid's and pay for your pay-as-you-go mibile for f**k sake, I don't need to listen to your selfrighteous s**t aswell. If you don't pay your way, you don't get a say.

[richfzs]

 

[Sunny Intervals]

If I have offended anyone, I honestly don't care. Junkies, Dole-scum and thieves are not entitled to an opinion in my book. I feed your kid's and pay for your pay-as-you-go mibile for f**k sake, I don't need to listen to your selfrighteous s**t aswell. If you don't pay your way, you don't get a say.

  Thank you kindly Sir 

[Grahamm]

If I have offended anyone, I honestly don't care. Junkies, Dole-scum and thieves are not entitled to an opinion in my book. I feed your kid's and pay for your pay-as-you-go mibile for f**k sake, I don't need to listen to your selfrighteous s**t aswell. If you don't pay your way, you don't get a say.

It's nice to see so many Daily Mail readers post in these forums...

[Major Rant]

It's nice to see so many Daily Mail readers post in these forums...

    Maybe the bishops have got a point.
 
We need a better way of determining who is 'deserving poor' and who isn't.
Likewise we need to figure out who is 'deserving rich' vs 'undeserving'.
 
And then all we need is a series of well managed concentration camps.
 
But before that, we could have a TRIAL ...
"Fred Goodwin.... Why did you buy ABN AMBRO for silly money and then run off with all Her Majesty's money?"
"I was only obeying orders .. capitalist orders given by M Thatcher, J Major, T Blair and G Brown"

[BIG MAC]

Mr DJ, having been made redundant twice in a year and having an occupation which is not in demand it's been difficult to get by however for the last 6 months we have paid our bills and haven't seen fit to impose upon your 20%....and your £800 pcm deductions...It pains me a little to think that until redundancy my deductions were almost double that. I guess what I am saying is my 20% over the past 35 years probably entitles me to an opinion in your value system therefore feel free to go make love and travel...As it happens looks like I shall be commuting up to Glasgow from Portsmouth on a weekly basis from next month..so don't harp on about commitment etc. We are not all the same and I don't like your sweeping generalisations and assumptions...

[rustyrider]

But what we have is tax payers forking out for inflated rents paid to people with money invested in property.  This all comes back to Maggie selling off the council stock, the privatisation of the welfare state.

Bollocks, there's more 'social housing' about now than there ever has been.  All new developments must have at least 30% set aside for social housing.  But look what it's done for the rest of us.

I moved into a rented flat about 5 years ago.  New development where a few had been bought as buy to lets with the bulk bought by owner/occupiers.  Those that had bought had been told that the development was being aimed at essential workers so there were a couple of teachers, a serviceman, a nurse, two coppers and the rest were all respectable, professional people (if you count a professional footballer as respectable).  Even the rentals were let out to similar.  But, on the opposite side of the road was an identical block that was bought by the local housing authority and filled with the dregs of society.  I don't think one of them worked.  The one directly opposite me had a couple with 3 kids under 4 and the obligatory Staffie.  The only time this animal saw the outside world was when it was kicked out onto the balcony when it wanted a shit.  In 3 years I don't think I saw her dressed in anything other than a dressing gown while sitting on her arse watching telly.  Within 2 years the private owners were putting their places up for sale.  Of those that managed to sell, it was at a loss, to others that were buying to let as nobody else would touch them.  What had started out as a tidy looking, respectable area had turned into a slum and the amount of social housing increased even further.  I'll give it another 5 years before all of it will be rentals.

I got out and, while I would have preferred to buy, moved into another rented place.  This time a house, privately owned and in a village rather than a housing estate.  The letting agent came last week to do an inspection and make sure I wasn't trashing the place.  She was gobsmacked to find that I had pressure washed the driveway, repainted the garage door, repaired a drooping gutter and the place was cleaner than when I'd moved in.  It may not be mine but I live here and want a place that I feel comfortable inviting friends and relatives to.  Just because I don't own it doesn't mean I don't care about how it looks, unlike those that aren't paying the rent out of their own pocket.  If you don't have to work for something, why should you care about it?

Getting back onto topic, I think a £26k cap is too high.  I earn slightly over what this works out to as a salary.  I pay my own rent, rates, utility bills and food.  I own 3 cars and the bike, all bought and paid for, all taxed, Mot'd and insured and I still pay a percentage of the mortgage on the house I half own with my ex.  If I can do that on a net take home of £28k (as my P60 is laying here having just done my tax return), why the hell should anybody be given almost as much for doing foc all?

Meanwhile non of you care or want to do anything about the big money, the 100's billions pounds evey year that rich people avoid in taxation every single year.  The kind of money that can get this country out of the mess that's it 's in.

Not that nobody cares but it's totally irrelevant to this discussion.

[pitternator]

to my mind, this governments psycology is working ...all the attention is on how bad the welfare system is, how its to blame for everything. But then that is exactly how Thatcher worked, divide and conquer. FFS no tax payer wants to pay for ideleness, but all this posturing does is attack anyone who is a genuine case. And please do not be so facile as to suggest there are enough jobs out there for all the unemployed and they are on benefit just cos its better. There always is  a residual  amount of unemployed , possibly up to 1 million, made up of people who cannot work, dont want to work, or are between jobs. But the rest by and large are unemployed , looking for work.  Yet somehow now, these people are being branded " scum"... FFs I cant believe how the worm has turned.Its like going back to the dark ages.
Our welfare state should support genuine cases, and the way its going , the tories will soon convince you  there are none at all.
 
how long will it before the unemployed have to wear  a special badge, and get herded into camps...
 
whilst no supporter of VNA, its incredible  how much tax dodging by big companies goes on,big bonus culture is still rife etc... all of which escapes the media spotlight.Just remember it was not the poor , needy or unemployed who created this financial crisis...and witchhunts on them wont solve it either.
 
we need an welfare system based on need, which offers appropriate support , and more importantly a way out off welfare.Thats what we should be looking at.The decline of manufacturing in this country is as much to blame as a generous welfare state...we need more jobs and less reliance on imports.Get people working , paying taxes...thats how to balance the books, not by attempts to economically starve the needy.I never have believed we can sort the financial crisis out just by cutting what we spend...its  a self defeating  downward spiral. And to my mind, after 2 yrs of this government , we have a huge amount of unemployed and no debt reduction....I can see the UK bouncing along the bottom of this recession for years to come at this rate...