Local news today..distressing content

[stevierst]

I wholeheartedly agree with you there Ian-man, any further road training is a must.
You learn to see so much more than the tarmac infront of you!

[Phil]

Food for thought:

In whatever vehicle you choose to use, you're waiting to turn right so you look for a gap. You see one. You look at the vehicle coming head on, who's a good enough distance away for you to make it through.

How easy or hard is it to tell that he's over 1 1/2 times the speed limit and therefore only going to take 2/3 the time to get to you?

If you haven't spotted the rider in the first place very difficult. I remember reading these 2 threads and the associated imformative article and video.

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,13182.msg149120.html#msg149120




http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,5321.msg46374.html#msg46374 

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

[Fazafou]

Actually the driver was lucky there, a bit later and the bike would have most likely come through the drivers door and killed them, something drivers fail to realise, thinking they're protected in their little boxes.

[Skippernick]

Food for thought:

In whatever vehicle you choose to use, you're waiting to turn right so you look for a gap. You see one. You look at the vehicle coming head on, who's a good enough distance away for you to make it through.

How easy or hard is it to tell that he's over 1 1/2 times the speed limit and therefore only going to take 2/3 the time to get to you?

If you haven't spotted the rider in the first place very difficult. I remember reading these 2 threads and the associated imformative article and video.

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,13182.msg149120.html#msg149120




http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,5321.msg46374.html#msg46374 

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

Nice one i'm off to practice my SIAM's, or tyre warming exercises.

[darrsi]

Years ago i was at the head of traffic going past Kew Gardens, white bike and crash helmet, hi-vis vest and headlight on, and a woman with her window down was waiting to pull out of a turning on my left side.


As i got nearer she was blatantly staring at me, so it was fairly obvious she's seen me, but i stuck around 30mph and kept my eye on the wheels of her car anyway.


As i got to within about 25 feet of her i've seen the wheels move and gone into an emergency stop.


Although it was controlled, i ended up about 2 feet from her car door, engine cut out, and my heart trying to fight it's way out of my jacket.
She has panicked, screamed and stopped right in my path.


I flipped the visor up, no doubt with steam pouring out of it, and i shouted "What the hell did you do that for?" 


And her meek reply, with a big smile, was "I'm sorry, i didn't see you!" 




Now i don't know if any of you have seen the experiment with the group of people in a circle passing a ball at random to each other for about 30 seconds?
What you have to do is totally concentrate on the ball and count how many times it is passed.


I got 2 'new to biking' colleagues to do this test and told them they only get one chance so totally concentrate.


After the test i asked them how many times the ball was passed, and they gave me their answers, which were different as well quite worryingly, then i asked them "Did you see the gorilla?"


After looking at me quite puzzled i played the video again, and whilst the ball passing was going on, a person in a fancy dress gorilla suit walks across the circle of people, stops in the middle and looks at you, then walks off!


Neither of them saw it at all in their conscious mind.




The reason i'm mentioning this is because it's what they believe that car drivers have done in the past with motorbikes.


They concentrate so hard on the bigger more obvious vehicles behind that they literally don't see the approaching bike.


Very strange but apparently very true.


Sorry, but there's no point you even thinking about doing the test now because you will blatantly see the gorilla now that you are aware of it! 
 

NOTE: Looking at a cars front wheel for movement is a damn site more reliable than looking at the driver.


HERE IS THE TEST, but you'll have to try it on someone else.

Make a point of telling them they only have the one chance so to concentrate.

I paused the video after it asked how many passes were made.

selective attention test

[mr self destruct]

If you haven't spotted the rider in the first place very difficult. I remember reading these 2 threads and the associated imformative article and video.

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,13182.msg149120.html#msg149120




http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,5321.msg46374.html#msg46374 

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

Interesting articles there, thanks for that.


However, another thing to think about is even if the driver did spot the rider, travelling at 97mph the rider would have been sufficiently far back at the point he was seen, to make the driver think he has room/time to make the turn.


I've been in a similar situation myself, looking in the mirror to check if the outside lane on the M6 was clear, saw a car way off in the distance, indicated and pulled out. By the time I was in the outside lane, the other guy had locked up slamming his brakes on. He was going way over 100 but it was a split-second thing. If I had looked a second later he'd have been visibly close enough for me to let him pass, if I'd have looked a second before, I'd have moved a second earlier and he'd have seen me in time to slow down comfortably.


I suppose I'm alone in this but I have every sympathy with the driver in this sad situation.

[noggythenog]

I had a close call when i was 19 and in my Nova......like every young Nova driver i was driving like a twat.......it is the law.


Anyway i was shifting on and a double foccin decker bus pulled out from a junction on me .......i had no time to brake......& my brakes barely worked anyway......he was right across my side of the road & just crossing the centre line when i managed to swerve and just squeeze through the gap in front of him....from then on i assumed  that anyone could do this to me.


So considering these things can happen between a bus and a car i don't really buy into high viz and lights saving my bacon.


That being said i still do the odd stupid thing....it's the risks we take.....bikes are fun.....boys will be boys......this bloke has enjoyed his short life and died for his passion......better than being 90 and having never done anything with yourself.........kinda like dole bums never really have many "legitimate" injuries coz they dont do foc all!.


RIP

[lew600fazer]

The driver gets no sympathy from me.
Would it have made a difference if the bloke had been doing the legal limit?
Until car drivers are punished massively for such a ridiculous lack of observation( a six foot four guy on a big white bike wearing highly visible gear and helmet for chrissake) it will keep happening, and the "poor" driver having to live with taking the life of that lovely woman's son is not punishment enough.

Ogri48, Yea I reckon if he had been doing 37MPH less he might, just might have survived it . I have sympathy for the driver he is partly to blame true, but I reckon if the biker had been doing the speed limit the accident may not have happened in the first place.

[darrsi]

I had a close call when i was 19 and in my Nova......like every young Nova driver i was driving like a twat.......it is the law.


Anyway i was shifting on and a double foccin decker bus pulled out from a junction on me .......i had no time to brake......& my brakes barely worked anyway......he was right across my side of the road & just crossing the centre line when i managed to swerve and just squeeze through the gap in front of him....from then on i assumed  that anyone could do this to me.


So considering these things can happen between a bus and a car i don't really buy into high viz and lights saving my bacon.


That being said i still do the odd stupid thing....it's the risks we take.....bikes are fun.....boys will be boys......this bloke has enjoyed his short life and died for his passion......better than being 90 and having never done anything with yourself.........kinda like dole bums never really have many "legitimate" injuries coz they dont do foc all!.


RIP

Only takes a spot of rain and a hi-vis will make you much more visible to all around you, even more so to other bikers who don't have the privilege of windscreen wipers.
I also found that when i didn't wear my hi-vis i would get a completely different attitude towards me from other drivers for some odd reason, so now i wear it all the time.
It's a good quality one i use as well, not the usual road sweeper, velcro flappy type, so it's not a hindrance in any way.


http://www.ultimatebikegear.co.uk/products/Icon-Mil-Spec-Vest-%252d-Yellow-or-Orange.html

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Now i don't know if any of you have seen the experiment with the group of people in a circle passing a ball at random to each other for about 30 seconds?
What you have to do is totally concentrate on the ball and count how many times it is passed.

Yup, they showed us that on a course at work.  About 20 of us watched all trying to count the number of passes.  Not one person saw the gorilla.

I'd say in that video the car driver was guilty of careless driving, driving without due care and attention.

Had Dave survived he could have potentially been charged with reckless driving and a ban.

Do look at the figures I posted in #20.

[ogri48]

Went with the EZ crew to a custom bike show at oulton broads today, two bikers in the club behind us collided together, there was a fireball, both killed..
Whatever the reasons, it happens.
Ride safe fellers...

[Punkstig]

Simple comment for some-
Have a think before you tell us on a forum that you made insufficient observations before making a manouvre- you're the main cause of accidents!
As humans with two working eyes on the front of our heads means we can judge distance and speed of other objects- these objects need to be studied and analysed over a period of time, not glanced at and assumed the speed is within the uk's speed limits!
God help you if you travel on the fast autobahns of Germany glance in your mirror and assume that car behind you is travelling at 70mph!

This is in no way a comment or observation on this particular accident in this post!

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Jesus Ogri, not good. 

Sorry to hear.

[ogri48]

I know, it's bloody horrible innit mate..


Young feller on a priller and older chap on a Beemer...the word is the older bloke was well experienced and did nothing wrong, it was the younger blokes first ride with a well established fast crew and he was trying a bit too hard, but that's just here say that filtered thru to the meet..I guess, I have no idea of the actual facts. I know the same crew lost someone last year, not good.
The sad truth is regardless of our daft disagreements and debates on it, we are all potential statistics but for the grace of god. It isnt always gonna be down to he shouldn't have done this/ speed was excessive/ I wouldn't have done that etc, sometimes we could just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[darrsi]

I know, it's bloody horrible innit mate..


Young feller on a priller and older chap on a Beemer...the word is the older bloke was well experienced and did nothing wrong, it was the younger blokes first ride with a well established fast crew and he was trying a bit too hard, but that's just here say that filtered thru to the meet..I guess, I have no idea of the actual facts. I know the same crew lost someone last year, not good.
The sad truth is regardless of our daft disagreements and debates on it, we are all potential statistics but for the grace of god. It isnt always gonna be down to he shouldn't have done this/ speed was excessive/ I wouldn't have done that etc, sometimes we could just be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Exactly, that's why they're called accidents........shit happens unfortunately! 

[richfzs]

Shit happens, indeed - but they ain't called accidents anymore, by the police. They happen because (the vast majority of the time) somebody (or more than one person) focced up. Road Traffic Collision, these days, not RTA.

[adeejaysdelight]

Here is the like to what Ogri was talking about - http://www.edp24.co.uk/news

The men were almost the same age. Its such a shame. We were at the ring a couple of weeks back. It was closed on our arrival for 2 hours because there had been a serious accident. When it opened, the cars were allowed out first for two laps. Apparently they let the cars do a sighting lap, and if all return, the bikes can go out too. So, we got a lap in and went back to our dig's for lunch (we had been out for nearly 4 hours by this time). We went back in the afternoon and went out for a lap after a 10 minute breather in the bike park. There were 10 bikes there at the most. So we had a look around them. A few English lads, two from Switzerland and three from Gremany. The Greman lads were 25 years old, at the most. My mate and I set off and the Germans were putting their lids on as we drove out. I left my mate for dust, and at some point the German lads caught up and passed him. A minute or two later my mate passed a red flag and round the bend were two fire balls and bits of plastic everywhere.



It turned out the 3 bikes took a line through a bend and all hit an oil patch at speed. The lead bike hit a car, which flipped and hit another car. Unfortunately 4 of the 5 people involved were taken away in the black ambulance. The guy in the last car to be hit was taken by helicopter to hospital. I don't know if he made it or not. It was a real reality check of just how dangerous riding a bike is. You know it happens. You know it could happen to you. But when you are standing beside a guy and about to set off to do the same thing, and 10 minutes later one of you is dead... It certainly opened my eyes.

[mr self destruct]

Simple comment for some-
Have a think before you tell us on a forum that you made insufficient observations before making a manouvre-

I did think, and I didnt say I made insufficient observations before making a manoeuvre. This is merely your interpretation of my post, the rest of your comment being conjecture based on your personal experiences or prejudices.

One point of view being my observations were insufficient, another being the other guy's observations were insufficient, resulting in his excessive speed for the situation.