rear wheel and chain adjustment query

[tweetytek]

No matter what I do , and how I do it, with  the calliper torque bar loosened and the rear axle nut just biting , and adjustment of each of the chain adjustment nuts - I cannot get the rear wheel markers to align. Everything lines up on each side of the swingarm but after  I torque up the axle nut, the l/h marker is just before the 3rd major mark (mark cannot be seen) and the r/h is just after the 3rd mark (mark can be seen). I' say there is about 2mm difference between the two

Tried 5 times , and yes the adjuster nuts are torqed up as it calliper nut, before I torque up the axle nut.

Is this slight discrepancy  ok or do the adjuster marks need to be bang on each side - mm perfect.

[darrsi]

Ideally it would make sense to have them on the same markers, although there is always that small chance they are not 100% accurate.
If the wheel is off by too much the chain & sprockets will be fighting each other which you really don't want.
There's no real reason they shouldn't be matched so i'd just keep trying until you get it right.

[tweetytek]

cheer mate, but I have tried 5 times, it just keeps moving (on the r/h side) by about 2mm on r/h after I torque the axle nut. everything is fine upto the final torque to 117Nm

[fazersharp]

how about compensating by not doing the them same in the first place my 2mm and then when you tourq up it will finnish the same

[tweetytek]

Obviously simple..yes I like the sound of that... shall try that... although I've  put her away for the day now so will try out tomorrow

[midden]

What I think is happening to you I combat by sitting on ground behind the back wheel pushing the wheel forward putting pressure on the adjusters and as I tighten I'll also use foot to hold the wheel from twisting to the left.
Failing that get a friend to push on the wheel while you tighten

[tweetytek]

What I think is happening to you I combat by sitting on ground behind the back wheel pushing the wheel forward putting pressure on the adjusters and as I tighten I'll also use foot to hold the wheel from twisting to the left.
Failing that get a friend to push on the wheel while you tighten

yes mate, this is what happening, its twisting to the left, even though I have set the r/h adjuster at the correct position then moved the locknut up and torqued it up; when I torque the axle nut, the r/h moves ? Weird.
I will come back tomorrow and post an update
thanks

[NorthWestern]

Trap a screwdriver in the chain/sprocket to pull the wheel up against the adjusters. Never fails

[tweetytek]

Trap a screwdriver in the chain/sprocket to pull the wheel up against the adjusters. Never fails

Please can you explain this.. I don't understand

[NorthWestern]

Sure,  just trap the shaft of a screwdriver (6mm or so)  between the chain and sprocket as you slowly turn the back wheel. This makes the chain tight which pulls the wheel forward

[tweetytek]

Sure,  just trap the shaft of a screwdriver (6mm or so)  between the chain and sprocket as you slowly turn the back wheel. This makes the chain tight which pulls the wheel forward

Ah I see. Bit it's the r/h side that moves back toward me as I tighten the rear axle nut.

[NorthWestern]

Give it a try. Unless you have a bent spindle, uneven washer or surface then it will work fine.

[Arfa]

I was always told to jam a rag between chain and rear sprocket, then stick bike in gear to hold it. This forces the chain super tight so when you tighten up the wheel nut, ut doesn't move as you compress the swing arm slightly.

[tweetytek]

guys , I tried your suggestions but as I expected it did nothing to help correct the problem which is on the r/h side as you sit on the bike, not the left. these hints whilst useful and I will certainly try them one day, does not change the r/h side which is where the error is. Rain stopped play so I could not try a few more suggestions but will come back when I have - thank you for the ideas though

[Davew]

how about compensating by not doing the them same in the first place my 2mm and then when you tourq up it will finnish the same

Surely this will work if it's moving the same amount every time you torque them up?


Also, do you have any issues riding after you've torqued them up, as it may be absolutely fine and down to the markers being very slightly off.

[tweetytek]

how about compensating by not doing the them same in the first place my 2mm and then when you tourq up it will finnish the same

Surely this will work if it's moving the same amount every time you torque them up?


Also, do you have any issues riding after you've torqued them up, as it may be absolutely fine and down to the markers being very slightly off.

I didnt try that one mate, just the other suggestions relating to stopping the chain/pulling the chain to ; no effect  ; I'm going to do the 2mm adjustment thing tomorrow . I dont know if there is a problem when riding - I cannot discern one but then again I would not recognise whatever it is that goes wrong ?? When I bought the bike the main dealer had serviced it and checked the chain and both markers were bang on - I just replaced the chain as a personal choice , the old one had done 13K so time for a change anyway.

Its like I push the wheel forward , markers on both side ok, on the r./h side I tighten the adjuster then the axle nut yet still the r/h marker is out - how on earth can it be moving - ah well.

Just to check with you good guys, I'm loosening the calliper torque arm bolt at the calliper end then retightening  , this is correct ? otherwise I do not  see how the wheel can move with calliper in-situ.

[midden]

I'm thinking use the screwdriver chain technique then when tightening spindle exhert pressure on the rear left side of tyre to hold adjuster nut on frame

OR here's a thought......reverse the spindle  so that the nut is on the right side of the bike.   

[NorthWestern]

The screwdriver (or rag as someone else suggested) pulls the whole wheel forward.  Granted its mainly on the drive side but it should be enough to pull both sides up to the stops.  If it isn't, or you find the final torque is pulling it out then I would suggest something else might be amiss.  You should not need to loosen the torque arm or anything like that.  In fact, if you need any sort of confirmation even HRC mechanics use this method on the motogp bikes - its not a back street dodge.

If you are tightening the spindle between two flat surfaces if anything it would be prone to move it up to the stop not away from it.  I would be checking the spacers etc are seated properly etc.  Usually a "knee in the back of the tyre" is all you need, the screwdriver trick is simply acting as a third hand (or knee).

[darrsi]

This is starting to sound like the chain is too tight, how much slack is there on the lower middle chain when you nip up the wheel spindle?
There should be around 35mm play in the chain.
Pull the wheel back too far and the chain will stop it lining up and pull it forwards on the left (pulling wheel to the right).

[NorthWestern]

Just as a sanity check, when you do the final tightening, if you are kneeling behind the rear wheel are you pushing the wrench from 11/12 o'clock or pulling it from 6 o'clock?


The phrase I was thinking of this morning when saying two flat surfaces I was meaning two parallel surfaces (being the clamping sides of the swingarm).  If there is a missing spacer (or one that's too short etc) then when you tighten the nut it will pull the swingarm in, creating a ramp away from the  swingarm pivot, this could cause it to move back as you are seeing.

[tweetytek]

Chain free play is 35mm
New chain and sprockets. I've fitted many over rtse years to many bikes
Just this fazer ... Not playing by the rules.

[darrsi]

When you nip it up and it's 2mm out as you say, what does the wheel and chain feel and sound like?
Is the wheel moving freely without any iffy noises, and does the chain look like it's moving smoothly without any grinding or clunking going on?


If the wheel seems okay and more importantly the chain looks like it's running true and consistent then i would be inclined to think that maybe your markers aren't 100% accurate, which i doubt anyone's are bang on to be truthful.


It's more about the action of the chain, if it looks like it's running sweetly then i'd get it as close as you can to the markers and give it a ride.
If it is totally wrong then you'll soon pick up on it by chain noise.

[midden]

The screwdriver (or rag as someone else suggested) pulls the whole wheel forward.  Granted its mainly on the drive side but it should be enough to pull both sides up to the stops.  If it isn't, or you find the final torque is pulling it out then I would suggest something else might be amiss. 

I can certainly see the logic in the screwdriver method and if spindle,washers and frame being straight should come in to line at final torque.
Perhaps give the method another try MC without keeping a check on the other side until you've tightened to proper torque.

[tweetytek]

Sorted!

I got a pal to push the tyre/wheel forward to front of bike with his foot. This took up freeplay at r/h adjuster and I quickly nipped up the r/h adjuster nuts then torqued up the axle nut
All fine now.
Learn something every time
Many thanks to ask you kind people for the suggestions.