Date: 15-06-24  Time: 23:30 pm

Author Topic: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?  (Read 15378 times)

FuZzBoM

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #25 on: 24 April 2014, 12:13:14 am »
I think if you have to own 1 bike only, and like sporty riding, the Gen 2 makes a strong case. i would rather have a Tuono V4 but you cant get those for less than 4k.
 
My preference for the Gen 1 is biased in that I intend to keep a sportier bike for fun rides and use the FZS for everything else.

The older Tuono V-twin was the one I had my eye on. can get a nice one for about £3k
But I just know I will be too big for it. I am in no rush to change just yet so will see what my trip in May brings. Most of my riding is out with mates for fun. only minimal touring really BUT I know I will miss it if I had something more sporty.
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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #27 on: 24 April 2014, 07:29:44 am »
The older Tuono V-twin was the one I had my eye on. can get a nice one for about £3k
But I just know I will be too big for it. I am in no rush to change just yet so will see what my trip in May brings. Most of my riding is out with mates for fun. only minimal touring really BUT I know I will miss it if I had something more sporty.
I wouldn't discount the early Tuono based on size, the RSV on which it is based was known to be slightly larger more accommodating sports bike than the Japanese alternatives. I am as tall as you and 'bigger boned' and when I test rode a Tuono it felt pretty good and I didn't feel it made me look stupid which I think would be a problem with a physically smaller bike like the Gen2. The Tuono I rode was the 'Factory' Racing edition with all the trick bits fitted, I came back from the ride with a silly stupid grin on my face and would have bought it there and then but it was a grand out of my reach. Having sung it's praises the Tuono does lack much of the practicality of the Gen1 and I personally would have worries about reliability and cost of ownership of anything from Italy which don't come into the equation with my Gen1.


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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #29 on: 24 April 2014, 01:52:24 pm »
Don't get me wrong I love the bike. But with my mates having newer machines I feel a bit like the poor relation so to speak.
Makes me feel bad because I know I would rather have the mighty fazer over say a street triple of a v-strom 650 etc. like my mates have.
And Going touring this year my mate with the street triple said he could not do 800-900 miles in 4 days with us because the seat, riding position and lack of wind protection would kill him... I have also had no issues keeping up with him through the twisties so not a performance issue.

I dunno, maybe I am just looking to change for the wrong reasons..
Lord,
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Amen

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: 24 April 2014, 04:55:52 pm »
Plenty of other bikes out there I'd like to own, but as I always say, not at the expense of my gen 1, not on the money I'm on anyway. Most knowledgeable riders tip a nod to them anyhoo - they ride with a well piloted one and then don't dismiss them out of hand any more - plus what you say about arriving at your destination without all the aches and pains, plus once Ivanised, no snatchiness like many modern injection bikes.
And I couldn't give a toss what others think about it  :lol
 

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: 24 April 2014, 05:11:01 pm »
Don't get me wrong I love the bike. But with my mates having newer machines I feel a bit like the poor relation so to speak.
Makes me feel bad because I know I would rather have the mighty fazer over say a street triple of a v-strom 650 etc. like my mates have.
And Going touring this year my mate with the street triple said he could not do 800-900 miles in 4 days with us because the seat, riding position and lack of wind protection would kill him... I have also had no issues keeping up with him through the twisties so not a performance issue.

I dunno, maybe I am just looking to change for the wrong reasons..

So your mates have new bikes and by the street triple admission is uncomfortable with no wind protection......but your Fazer does.....and he cant out run you on it either.....and as for the comparing a v-storm 650 to the FZS1000....hang your head in shame boy!!!!!!

AyJay

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: 24 April 2014, 07:32:30 pm »
It's interesting looking at the stats on howmanyleft.co.uk. Yamaha sold a hell of a lot more FZS model bikes such as the thou and the original Fazer 600 than the later FZ1 and FZ6 models. In fact the FZS600 sold almost 10 times better than the later bikes.

I can kind of see Yamaha back in 2004 planning the next FZ models thinking that since the uprights sold so well, they could see a shift to that kind of bike from sports bikes coming and so made the second generation machines more like sports bikes - revier engines, shorter stroke suspension and so on.

But I think they missed what was fundamentally driving sales of those bikes, and that was the sheer usability of the earlier models.

Tank range, for instance has gone down consistently over the years. I'm sure Yamaha and the other manufacturers look at the annual mileage of bikes, see 5000 miles per year and think 'oh, no one needs a big tank because they're not doing big mileages', or perhaps it's a mass centralisation question - small tank of fuel means better handling.

Also, long stroke suspension is ideal for road bikes and so are engines with loads of grunt, both attributes which Yamaha has picked up on with the new MT zero series of bikes.

Maybe they screwed up with the second gen FZ bikes because they were still stuck in the horsepower race, where every year, the bikes had to be faster so they responded by making them revier and revier. Nowadays, the horsepower race is pretty much over and again Yamaha's new MT zeroes seem to have picked up on that and instead are now trying to make the engines usable over a wide rev range (by over, I mean that if you want more power, you just get a bigger engine - the licensing laws across Europe now mean that no one is stuck with a small capacity bike and revving it's tits off)

And now we have half the biking population going over to big trailies, probably because of their usability. But they're not much cop at commuting because they are enormous and have ludicrously wide bars. Can't tell you how many times I get stuck behind these land yachts in traffic because of that. Maybe we will see more standard road bikes like the Z1000SX, MT0xx, BMW S1000S coming through once the Ewan and Charlie effect starts to wear off.

Personally, I just want a great sports tourer and they are like hen's teeth. There's only been two - the original VFR750 (the K model to be specific, the later bikes are water buffalos) and the Gen 1. I think the reason the VFR-FK was such a good sports tourer is that it was a cutting edge sports bike that just so happened to be comfortable, had a big tank and was exceptionally well made.

What I actually want now (and I've said it before) is a comfortable 1100cc Cross Plane R1 with an upright riding position, a big tank and a comfy seat. Failing that, the new BMW will probably fit the bill. What I do not want is a heavy bike. Large, certainly, because I'm 6'1", but I don't see why sports tourers have to be heavy. And from that point of view, the FZ1 Fazer was right on the money.

I'd just love to see Aprilia to take the V4 Tuono a little bit more towards the sports tourer side of things. That bike, with decent weather protection, would be the ultimate for me. It's sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it, but even if I got one, I'd have to get the tank enlarged and maybe fit the fairing from the RSV4. That's a lot of work. Oh, and then I'd do something about the chronic fuel consumption, because from what I hear, it's pretty thirsty. But still, what a machine that would be. You could do Cadwell Park on the weekend, commute to work monday to friday and then pop over to the Alps for a holiday the following week.


And that is exactly what I did on my FZS1000 a couple of years back. It didn't flinch and was totally at home doing any of those things.
 
Oops, I've blethered on again….
« Last Edit: 24 April 2014, 07:52:13 pm by AyJay »

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #33 on: 24 April 2014, 08:56:43 pm »
What I actually want now (and I've said it before) is a comfortable 1100cc Cross Plane R1 with an upright riding position, a big tank and a comfy seat. Failing that, the new BMW will probably fit the bill. What I do not want is a heavy bike. Large, certainly, because I'm 6'1", but I don't see why sports tourers have to be heavy. And from that point of view, the FZ1 Fazer was right on the money.

Hmmmm, yes I may have mentioned on several other forums that I would one day investigate fitting a cross planed crank engine into a Fazer chassis. That is surely what Yamaha should offer next to replace the current Fazer Thou? I am pretty sure the next R1 wont be a cross plane so why not keep the engine design alive in sports tourer / road bike / adventure bike varients? They could use that single base engine to compete in 3 market places at once pretty much as Triumph have with the 1050 lump.

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: 24 April 2014, 09:07:11 pm »
Yes, and it's also what BMW are doing with the S1000 engine, and the R1200, and actually, the Gen 1 engine was derived from the R1, come to that.


Given Yamaha are putting CP2 and CP3 on the MT zero series bikes, it makes a cross plane Fazer 1000 or 1100 likely, but it's a long time coming. The CP R1 is now 5 years old.


Anyway, whatever comes, I just hope to god they don't give it a tiny tank and no weather protection.


I really like Yamahas for their engineering, so I also hope it's not too difficult to work on. The Gen 1 is a breeze, but maybe modern bikes are simply too complicated (emissions, FI etc) these days for that to be anything more than a pipe dream.

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: 25 April 2014, 12:59:52 am »
It's interesting looking at the stats on howmanyleft.co.uk. Yamaha sold a hell of a lot more FZS model bikes such as the thou and the original Fazer 600 than the later FZ1 and FZ6 models. In fact the FZS600 sold almost 10 times better than the later bikes.

I can kind of see Yamaha back in 2004 planning the next FZ models thinking that since the uprights sold so well, they could see a shift to that kind of bike from sports bikes coming and so made the second generation machines more like sports bikes - revier engines, shorter stroke suspension and so on.

But I think they missed what was fundamentally driving sales of those bikes, and that was the sheer usability of the earlier models.

Tank range, for instance has gone down consistently over the years. I'm sure Yamaha and the other manufacturers look at the annual mileage of bikes, see 5000 miles per year and think 'oh, no one needs a big tank because they're not doing big mileages', or perhaps it's a mass centralisation question - small tank of fuel means better handling.

Also, long stroke suspension is ideal for road bikes and so are engines with loads of grunt, both attributes which Yamaha has picked up on with the new MT zero series of bikes.

Maybe they screwed up with the second gen FZ bikes because they were still stuck in the horsepower race, where every year, the bikes had to be faster so they responded by making them revier and revier. Nowadays, the horsepower race is pretty much over and again Yamaha's new MT zeroes seem to have picked up on that and instead are now trying to make the engines usable over a wide rev range (by over, I mean that if you want more power, you just get a bigger engine - the licensing laws across Europe now mean that no one is stuck with a small capacity bike and revving it's tits off)

And now we have half the biking population going over to big trailies, probably because of their usability. But they're not much cop at commuting because they are enormous and have ludicrously wide bars. Can't tell you how many times I get stuck behind these land yachts in traffic because of that. Maybe we will see more standard road bikes like the Z1000SX, MT0xx, BMW S1000S coming through once the Ewan and Charlie effect starts to wear off.

Personally, I just want a great sports tourer and they are like hen's teeth. There's only been two - the original VFR750 (the K model to be specific, the later bikes are water buffalos) and the Gen 1. I think the reason the VFR-FK was such a good sports tourer is that it was a cutting edge sports bike that just so happened to be comfortable, had a big tank and was exceptionally well made.

What I actually want now (and I've said it before) is a comfortable 1100cc Cross Plane R1 with an upright riding position, a big tank and a comfy seat. Failing that, the new BMW will probably fit the bill. What I do not want is a heavy bike. Large, certainly, because I'm 6'1", but I don't see why sports tourers have to be heavy. And from that point of view, the FZ1 Fazer was right on the money.

I'd just love to see Aprilia to take the V4 Tuono a little bit more towards the sports tourer side of things. That bike, with decent weather protection, would be the ultimate for me. It's sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it, but even if I got one, I'd have to get the tank enlarged and maybe fit the fairing from the RSV4. That's a lot of work. Oh, and then I'd do something about the chronic fuel consumption, because from what I hear, it's pretty thirsty. But still, what a machine that would be. You could do Cadwell Park on the weekend, commute to work monday to friday and then pop over to the Alps for a holiday the following week.


And that is exactly what I did on my FZS1000 a couple of years back. It didn't flinch and was totally at home doing any of those things.
 
Oops, I've blethered on again….
the latest model tuono v4 has a larger tank and there are several companies that make larger screens. I love mine. Engine is utterly sublime and the sound of the v4 is heaven. Still wouldn'[size=78%]t sell my gen 1 tho[/size] :)
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FuZzBoM

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: 25 April 2014, 08:33:25 am »


So your mates have new bikes and by the street triple admission is uncomfortable with no wind protection......but your Fazer does.....and he cant out run you on it either.....and as for the comparing a v-storm 650 to the FZS1000....hang your head in shame boy!!!!!!


Neither was a comparison as such.. Both very different bikes really. I was only stating what bikes my mates have and having been out on them they are not what I would ideally go for.

the V-Strom 650 ins't to be mocked though. I was very impressed with its engine, may not have the top end of the Fazer (or any large-ish inline 4) but usable grunt out of corners is good. I would have one over the Street triple any day of the week but then with my size that is not surprising.
I have also been lucky enough to ride the 2013 Hayabusa. amazing bike can be a pussycat or a complete animal, but riding position would get to me after a while and I may lose my licence!! was doing over 3 figures at one point and honestly didn't realise.
Lord,
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Amen

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #37 on: 25 April 2014, 10:21:25 pm »

the latest model tuono v4 has a larger tank and there are several companies that make larger screens. I love mine. Engine is utterly sublime and the sound of the v4 is heaven. Still wouldn't sell my gen 1 tho :)


Yes, I saw that at the bike show last year. It's still not going to do 200 miles on a tank like the Fazer though. And yes, when I test rode one, I was deeply impressed with that engine….


If I won the lottery, first bike I'd get is the RSV4 (that is a MotoGp bike, no question about it), second the Tuono. Third, I rebuild my old Fazer, blueprint the engine and find a way to make the Ohlins Mechatronic active suspension work on it.

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #38 on: 25 April 2014, 11:00:29 pm »
I can forgive the poor fuel economy because it is such an outstanding bike to ride. I could travel as many miles on it as my fazer in comfort, but it would cost in fuel. I only use it for 2-300 mile weekend blasts. My fazer is waiting on a steering stem being sent to me from america, as i'm fitting a 2008 R1 front end onto it. (Must be trying to make it like my v4..) I have owned lot's of bikes, but for all round useability gen 1 fazers are brilliant.
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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #39 on: 26 April 2014, 04:59:48 pm »
...Personally, I just want a great sports tourer and they are like hen's teeth. There's only been two - the original VFR750 (the K model to be specific, the later bikes are water buffalos) and the Gen 1. I think the reason the VFR-FK was such a good sports tourer is that it was a cutting edge sports bike that just so happened to be comfortable, had a big tank and was exceptionally well made.
….
There was a third, truely great sports tourer, better even then the VFR or the gen1.

Stuning engine straight out of a top sports bike.
Most comfortable saddle ever put on a bike.
Great protection wind without being a land yacht.
Great looks. 
Handling to keep up with top sports bikes.
Good range with 200miles between fills.
Integrated luggage.

It was a bike you could ride for 300 miles, dump the luggage and scrap knee sliders on alpine passes. And do it all again tomorrow.

The Aprilia Futura.
Nobody bought it.

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #40 on: 26 April 2014, 06:16:45 pm »
I did :'(:'(:'(:'(:'(
Stop polishing it and ride the bloody thing!!

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #41 on: 26 April 2014, 06:32:17 pm »
Yeah it's fairly comfy, I used to do sailsbury to Blackpool on a friday, then back again on Sunday. 480 mile round trip.
It did however have terrible fuel injection, poor ground clearance, an affinity to set on fire for no reason! And it probably the most expensive wheel bearings on the planet!
The engine fell out of tune within a week of being tweaked, and was a pig at dialling the power in for the bends. It was petrifying in the winter!!! Dashboards used to melt down, and replacing them was over a grand!
And 200 miles to a tank????? Best was about 170-180 afaicr.

It looked good, and sounded great. A bit half hearted really, couldn't wait to get rid!
Stop polishing it and ride the bloody thing!!

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: 26 April 2014, 07:03:57 pm »
As long as your only thinking :lol

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #43 on: 26 April 2014, 08:56:40 pm »

It was a bike you could ride for 300 miles, dump the luggage and scrap knee sliders on alpine passes. And do it all again tomorrow.

The Aprilia Futura.
Nobody bought it.


Ah. Now I did look at the  Futura and Falco. They were interesting bikes and what stopped me buying one (I test rode the Falco) was the Gen 1. Simply, it had a load more engine and was much smoother than either. That's another thing about the Gen 1, you can trickle that baby down to 20mph in 6th and it will still pull away without much complaint. Yes, most inline 4s will, but V-Twins will jump clean out of the chassis if you try that.

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: 26 April 2014, 09:09:44 pm »
I had a tuned falco and i really liked it. It had a great engine. I only sold it because i was offered stupid money for it. Really nice handling also. I bought a vstrom 1000 as it had a v twin engine, but it was crap. Handling poor, brakes poor and it was really lumpy around town. The falco was surprisinlg smooth low down with a midrange to die for.
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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #45 on: 26 April 2014, 09:24:13 pm »
The Japs cant really do big twins though can they. Their best effort was the SP1/2 which was only a spite attack on Ducati in WSB. Pity they didnt continue to develop that though as everyone I know who has one loves it.
 
I had an 04 RSV Factory which was basically the same engine as Falco, Futura. It was a nice bike but after a couple of years I was quite happy to lose 30% and buy a fireblade.

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #46 on: 26 April 2014, 10:05:59 pm »
The Japs cant really do big twins though can they. Their best effort was the SP1/2 which was only a spite attack on Ducati in WSB. Pity they didnt continue to develop that though as everyone I know who has one loves it.
 
I had an 04 RSV Factory which was basically the same engine as Falco, Futura. It was a nice bike but after a couple of years I was quite happy to lose 30% and buy a fireblade.

Everything I've read says Suzuki had a hit with the TL1000 motor - pity 'bout the chassis though. I've just found out one of our reps at work has one he has thrown £££££££s at, including a complete revamp of the rear suspension set up, and a not-very-mild engine tune. He's supposed to be e-mailing me a pic of it soon. Track-only bike. I'll get him to list the complete spec too, as it sounds like a proper monster!

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #47 on: 30 April 2014, 10:14:54 pm »
I must admit talk of this has opened the door to me looking at other bikes..
Always liked the VTR1000. only issue is small tank and I have heard from previous owners they do have a drinking problem.. Heard rumours of less than 100 miles to a tank if ridden hard.

On the v-twin theme I also like the SV1000. Probably a classic for the more upright riding position. again small-ish tank and limited range.

Apart from that I guess it is onto Ducati's.. ST2/ST4 or even stretch to an ST3.

Do I really gain anything though?
Lord,
Grant me the WD-40 to move those things that are stuck, the Duck tape to fasten those things that are loose, And the wisdom to know the difference.
Amen

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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #48 on: 01 May 2014, 12:51:46 am »
The only thing you gain from an Italian bike is soul. Jap bikes are definitely more reliable , but lack the character of italian bikes. I'm fortunate at the moment i can own both, but if i could only have one it would be the fazer. I may not get the thrill of the aprilia, but i know i could drive the fazer  round the world twice and not worry about it.
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Re: Thinking about going from Gen1 to a gen 2.. thoughts?
« Reply #49 on: 05 May 2014, 08:07:30 pm »
just go test ride 1, simples,


i come from gsxr 1000k6 to a gen 2 and am full ivanising at the moment and suspension after that,


i brought mine cos my mrs did not like ballistic gsxr1000 rides cos pillions to high,


i find the gen 2 really comfortable i got a home made 1/4 turn quick action throttle too, by far the best mod so far and only a few pence to make,


i really starting to enjoy mine now im appreciating it for what it is rather than wanting it to be some thing else, just about to tour europe for few days two up too on it inc nurenberg ring...its a true all rounder
just getting in to European touring, first trip 4 days belguim germany france with the mrs may 12 2014