New Helmet - Legal Advice Required

[Frosties]

Hiya fellas,


Hopefully someone can steer me in the right direction.


22nd October I bought, on a whim, a Schuberth C3 from Infinity Camberley for £400. Was going to wait for the show but couldn't resist.


Anyhow, the helmet leaked at the top and the visor had massive amounts of condensation, including ON the pinlock insert itself - no condensation between pinlock and visor so was sealing good. Took it back the following week, explained it all and they fitted a new pinlock and added some Silicone around the visor seal - next day, no more leaks but still condensation all over the inside including pinlock....this is with the chin and roof vents fully open. Popped back again to be told it would have to go back to Tranam who it seems supplied the helmet to Infinity and are probably the UK importers.


The guy told me he couldn't get much done the following week due to the NEC show - "not a problem" says I, I'm going Wednesday so will take it with me. Before I went, I took a short video on me phone one night to show them the issues.


Gets to the show, shows them video ("never seen that before" says Mr Tranam & the manager of Camberley branch) and explains it all - helmet has to go back to Schuberth as expected.


I get the helmet back yesterday and Schuberths answer is "Nowt wrong with the helmet, the pinlocks absord moisture so you need to carry a spare with you - obviously the pinlock is not drying out enough overnight." I explained that reasoning was complete bollox but agreed to give it another go.


Knowing it would still be shite, I strap the box with my old helmet to bike and go for the 7 mile to Infinity Camberley (raining). Gets there and sure enough can barely see through the visor.


Had a chat with manager who would not commit to refund saying he would have to talk to Tranam due to "a 2nd hand helmet being no good to him".... I explained as politely as possible how much use it was to me. Result is he will call Monday after speaking with Tranam..


Now....my way of understanding the law is that my contract is with Infinity and not some friggin importer! They have also attempted to fix the issue in the shop and its been sent back to the manufacturer so to me, they've had their chances to fix it and failed. This in my mind equals helmet not fit for purpose and money back please.


Can anyone advise any further on where I stand with this issue and any consumer rights I can hit Infinity with should they refuse a refund on Monday.


Any help as always is much appreciated  [size=78%] [/size]

[mickvp]

bit of a grey area this. you asre legally entitled to a full refund for (I believe) 4 weeks from the date of purchase (30 days).

you are then entitled to a repair or replacement for a further 6 months (which you are still covered under).

You may still be entitled to a full refund as you found the issue within the 30 days and the repair has not put the issue right - but as I say thats a grey area.

The cover of your guarantee/warranty which your helmet comes with (i think) is between yourself and schuberth though, infinity are not legally obliged to act as a middle man.

 
Sorry for the hodge-podge of info there, but thats as I understand it.

Edit ^^ I should mention that when I say "legally entitled", I am referring to as dictated in the sales of goods act of course.

A quick google turns up this:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/what-do-i-do-if-i-have-a-faulty-product

[acid drop]

Have a word with your local trading standards office, mine has helped me out a few times

[dBfazer600]

The sales of Goods and services act is the way forward. The manufacture has to proof their is not a fault if you have highlighted a problem with a product within 6 months of purchase. Just remind them of their legal obligation under English law as they may not know this if they are not based in the UK

Daz

[Punkstig]

Just to let you know why they keep mentioning passing things on to tranam - yes they are the importer and provider of several products to infinity,
Infinity's issue is they don't own the products they have in the shop (schuberth, rukka, Daytona and possibly others)
They only give tranam money for the products once they are sold, it's one of the only industries that has such a system!

[Pat]

If you bought it with a credit card then contact them and let them sort it out.


http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases

[rayburn600]

Frosties, was it the Schuberth C3  Or the C3 Pro.


[/size]
[/size]R

[Grahamm]

Now....my way of understanding the law is that my contract is with Infinity and not some friggin importer! They have also attempted to fix the issue in the shop and its been sent back to the manufacturer so to me, they've had their chances to fix it and failed. This in my mind equals helmet not fit for purpose and money back please.

You're entirely right, your contract is with the seller and they should not try to pass you off to the manufacturer or anyone else.

The Sale of Goods Act says that goods must be as advertised, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, clearly this lid fails under the second and third test.

Additionally the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations say that if a fault appears within the first six months after purchase it is up to them to prove that the fault was not present at time of manufacture and, if they can't, you have the right to choose repair, replacement or refund.

Given that they've admitted there was a fault (by trying to fix it) and the lid is not fit for purpose, tell them you're returning it as such and want a full refund.

If they get shirty, talk to your local Trading Standards and also remember that, if you paid for it by Credit Card, under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act the card company is jointly and severally liable for the satisfactory completion of the contract.

ADDENDUM See: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange for more info.

Don't let them fob you off, stick to your guns and get your money back!

[Frosties]

Now....my way of understanding the law is that my contract is with Infinity and not some friggin importer! They have also attempted to fix the issue in the shop and its been sent back to the manufacturer so to me, they've had their chances to fix it and failed. This in my mind equals helmet not fit for purpose and money back please.

You're entirely right, your contract is with the seller and they should not try to pass you off to the manufacturer or anyone else.

The Sale of Goods Act says that goods must be as advertised, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose, clearly this lid fails under the second and third test.

Additionally the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations say that if a fault appears within the first six months after purchase it is up to them to prove that the fault was not present at time of manufacture and, if they can't, you have the right to choose repair, replacement or refund.

Given that they've admitted there was a fault (by trying to fix it) and the lid is not fit for purpose, tell them you're returning it as such and want a full refund.

If they get shirty, talk to your local Trading Standards and also remember that, if you paid for it by Credit Card, under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act the card company is jointly and severally liable for the satisfactory completion of the contract.

ADDENDUM See: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange for more info.

Don't let them fob you off, stick to your guns and get your money back!

Nice one Graham - it was the "who is the contract with" confirmation I was after, cheers.


Pat - yup, with a credit card so a good call there fella. Gives me another angle.


Daz - another good call, as said by someone - they admitted a fault by trying to fix it!


Punkstig - that's one hell of a weird setup, totally arse about face but explains the slight reluctance.


Thanks for all the advice fellas - as always, a top notch batch of replies.


Much appreciated, let you know outcome come tomorrow. 

Frosties, was it the Schuberth C3  Or the C3 Pro.



R

Twas the C3 as per linky - you had issues...or work for Infinity/Tranam 


http://www.infinitymotorcycles.com/product/schuberth-c3-world-helmet/3780

[rayburn600]

No. No issues, apart from trying it on, I haven't worn it yet.
Cost too much to take it out on the road.
Its just that I got one up at the NEC.
Got a good deal......so long as it does not leak.

It was the C3 Pro. and at £350 I thought it was a bargain.

[locksmith]

The C3 IS a good helmet, mines been fine for 3 years now. Yes the visor mist's up around the pinlock insert but that remains clear.
The only issues I get is when I raise the visor or it's not clamped fully down and water will run down the inside of the visor.
So your's is definitely faulty.

[pilgrim]

Buy a Shark!
Had a problem with mine a few months ago (S900) Side pod flipped off and took the visor with it on the way to work, then a van drove over it
Emailed Shark who said contact the seller, which I did. They said no worries send it back to use and we'll send it to Shark in France for assessment as you have a 5 year warranty. Sent it back towards the end of November, got it back 3 weeks later, new side pod and visor Total cost to me was £7.50 for postage from here, and it needed a new visor anyway as I had scratched the old one. Ooops. Not bad for a lid that only cost £115 off ebay. How much are visors? More than 7 and a half quid.

 

[bigralphie]

you don't have the right to choose repair, replacement or refund,
That's the suppliers decision but you should not be unreasonably inconvenienced 

[Frosties]

you don't have the right to choose repair, replacement or refund,
That's the suppliers decision but you should not be unreasonably inconvenienced 

How does that work Ralph - surely after the attempts they've had it's not fit for purpose so refund please.


I've also had 4 return visits of let's say an hour a pop and 14 miles round trip. I'm also self employed at £45/hr so if I were to charge them for my time..............


I certainly don't work for nothing!

[midden]

buy 7 nice lids at £54 each. 

[bigralphie]

yep they have had their chance and you have been inconvenienced,so push for a full refund