just test-rode a FZS 1000 - lovely, but..

[fazersharp]

I say go for the 600. I'm thinking that perhaps, could it be the reason you think you need a 1000 is because of your experience on that old xj 600, the fazer 600 is a very different bike, and it will have plenty for you to "grow" in to. I've had mine for 12 years. I - like you am 5,8" and 91/2 -10 stone and its like the bike was made to measure and built for me. As for steering - remember that you don't just steer with your handlebars as you also steer with your body weight and that's where the (I think ) problem lies with the thou, its just too heavy in the corners unless you are a 15-18  stone lump. People moan about the 600s soft suspension --- but that too is perfect for my weight.
I wonder what the power to weight ratio is with me 9,1/2 stone on the fz 600 against an 18 stone chappy on the thou   

[Camshaft]

Hi,

Previously been on a very old (27yrs+!) XJ600 to do my DAS, and just test rode a FZS 1000 today.  The riding position was so comfortable, the power delivery silky smooth and very managable.  At very slow speed, it was much better than I expected for a big bike.  The only downside was when it came to cornering...  It felt like I needed to think hard about each corner, and really work to push the bike through - I wasn't going fast either, legal speeds throughout and sometimes slower than I'd take the corner in my wheezy old estate car.  It felt like it wanted to run wide if left unchecked.  I also rode an ER-6f, which was the easiest thing ever in turns, but lacked the grace and smoothness of the Fazer.

Does the FZS 1000 have a reputation for being a bit slow or reluctant to turn, or is it just me being a novice and not understanding how get it to turn well?  I'm happy to accept criticism!  The other question is would a Fazer 600 be noticably different in the corners?

Many thanks!
Loved the thou', but sapped my confidence a bit in the bends.     

Yes, the extra weight needs to be compensated for. As You'd probably be aware R6 shock upgrade will be of a big advantage (fitted mine a week ago). More confidence in flicking into corners of any kind.
The grunt of the Thou with some experience on it will make you smile.
Guess it's what you're looking for - lighter fast ride or muscle with ability done right.

[apage16]

Just as a bit of an aside, you are employing 'counter-steering' aren't you?

If not, it'll drastically change the speed of turn in on even the heaviest of machines!

I even managed to make my Dads Zephyr 750 feel almost nimble! And that's a heavy lump of bike. Mainly due to all his extra steel protection bars and chrome accessories!

 

[JoeRock]

Just as a bit of an aside, you are employing 'counter-steering' aren't you?

If not, it'll drastically change the speed of turn in on even the heaviest of machines!

I even managed to make my Dads Zephyr 750 feel almost nimble! And that's a heavy lump of bike. Mainly due to all his extra steel protection bars and chrome accessories!

Well if he isn't then he won't be getting around any corners if he's going faster than about 15mph!

[fazersharp]

The thing (i found)with counter stearing is that after riding for years I read about it and went out for a spin and found its what ive been doing for years and I never knew it was a "thing" and had a name.

[Hedgetrimmer]

"Natural" counter steering that you do without even realising it, is one thing. But I think what apage is talking about is when you exaggerate that input very deliberately to keep the cornering line you want at "higher" speeds.

[apage16]

"Natural" counter steering that you do without even realising it, is one thing. But I think what apage is talking about is when you exaggerate that input very deliberately to keep the cornering line you want at "higher" speeds.

Exactly Nick. The deliberate 'push left, to go left' that literally flicks the bike over into the turn. And lest we forget, that when leant over the circumference of your tyres actually becomes smaller. This can cause the bike to actually brake (using the engine) and this in turn causes more reluctance to turn in as weight is thrown forwards. So remember to give it a little throttle through the turn to further increase the bikes eagerness to get around that bend!!

Dammit, I'm desperate to get back out on the bike!!

[Hedgetrimmer]

I have had a couple of occasions to use it to rescue things when running wide on corner entry too, but I wouldn't say I'm totally confident with it yet! Need to experiment more, and so, yes, where's that bloody sunshine?!

PS very useful with the slower, heavier steering on the gen 1 thou! 

[apage16]

I try and do it as much as possible. So that its there as a reflex if i ever happen to get into any trouble, or need to quickly dodge a lane jumping Mini convertible on the commute into london!

Tbh, I'm pretty keen to get a go on a thou. But I'm a bit afraid that it'll just make me want one! And I only just got the 600.

The 600 is fantastic. But I'm 6'4" and nearly 15st so the extra room would be nice!

[bludclot]

to be honest it doesn't really matter what bike a rider buys - after the acclimatisation period (which includes 'that ride' where it finally feels like MY machine) there's a time when there's the 'ok it's mine now, i've bought and invested in it but i think it could be improved by...' and then the necessary expenditure and time and then it handles sooooooo sweetly that it'll just drop into a turn, it'll accelerate out like it's just been pinched, it'll do whatever the rider wishes without even a second thought.....


they're all the same.


and then there's the fazer thou. it just does all the above (and some more) a bit batter than anything else that's ever been made to be honest. i'm off to ride a s1000r this week but i don't think it will be any better than the bludclot black'n'. buy it and worry about getting it into turns later!!!!!!!

[pitternator]

It will have big power , but bet its all top end. Thats why I stick with the FZS, you dont have to cane it to get real useful surging torque in top.
 
The other thing is..why buy a 180 bhp bike to ride it at the speed limit ??...even the FZS feels way overpowered for many roads...so why bother ??
 
Yes it looks great , yes it gives you a happy ending every time you ride it , yes it makes girls drop their pants and rub their moist lady front back bottoms  when they see you riding it ...but just what has the S1000R really got going for it ???

[locksmith]

yes it makes girls drop their pants and rub their moist lady front back bottoms  when they see you riding it ...

That's all you need 

[fazersharp]

The 600 is fantastic. But I'm 6'4" and nearly 15st so the extra room would be nice!

I think power to weight ratio is a big factor,I think you on a 600 is the equivalent of me at 5,8" and 91/2 stone on a 250 and not my 600. I think the 1000 would be a perfect bike for you.

[fazersharp]

"Natural" counter steering that you do without even realising it, is one thing. But I think what apage is talking about is when you exaggerate that input very deliberately to keep the cornering line you want at "higher" speeds.

Its the same low speed- higher speed I do it without realising,or used to not realise until I found out it was an actual technique.

[chris b]

Guys, thanks again for all the good advice.  (I'd been counter-steering and needed to put on quite some pressure to get it to hold a line).  Hope everyone has a good Christmas, and I'm hoping santa brings a Fazer (not much chance of that though)!

[Ianboydsnr]

Guys, thanks again for all the good advice.  (I'd been counter-steering and needed to put on quite some pressure to get it to hold a line).  Hope everyone has a good Christmas, and I'm hoping santa brings a Fazer (not much chance of that though)!

The bike should be set up so it goes where you point it, you should only need to actively counter steer, at slow speeds or in an emergency, you will counter steer instinctively, if you raise the rear or lower the front, it will steer quicker, for me I find that the gen 1 needs to steer quicker than it comes from the factory, but the fzs600 is ok standard, however the fz6 is even slower than the gen1, front tyres can effect this, your meant to adjust them to you, some bikes would be awful to ride on the standard factory setup!

[wezdavo]

The 600 is fantastic. But I'm 6'4" and nearly 15st so the extra room would be nice!
[/quote]I think power to weight ratio is a big factor,I think you on a 600 is the equivalent of me at 5,8" and 91/2 stone on a 250 and not my 600. I think the 1000 would be a perfect bike for you.

How do you work this one? That's like saying you on a 250 would match him on a 600...

Remember the bike isn't carrying the weight more rolling it, so because your 5 stone lighter or 50% doesn't mean you could lower the capacity or power 50% and be able to keep up..

But yes I agree the thou would suit him better due to his physical size..

[fazersharp]

Wasn't expecting anyone to get a calculator and a slide rule out, it was just a back of an envelope quick point.
 Maybe I should of said 400 not 250 What about me and him on the same 600 ----- I will win
 Me and him on a 1000 --- the best rider will win and that's the difference

[apage16]

TBH , it sounds like a great day out for everyone! We ALL win! 

[PaulSmith]

...
How do you work this one? That's like saying you on a 250 would match him on a 600...

Remember the bike isn't carrying the weight more rolling it, so because your 5 stone lighter or 50% doesn't mean you could lower the capacity or power 50% and be able to keep up..

But yes I agree the thou would suit him better due to his physical size..

With the two of you rolling down hill, you would be right, but, as soon as you touch the throttle the bike is not 'rolling' any more. F=MA means the Force the engine can produce, divided by the Mass it is pushing gives its resulting Acceleration.  Being half the weight means having twice the acceleration from the same power. Put another way, halve the weight and you can halve the power and still get the same acceleration. But the thing people forget is that acceleration goes both ways, faster as well as slower.

I did a track day years ago in Mondello Park on a ZX-9R. Between one thing an another, on most laps I would fly past an RS-250  on the main straight. It was being ridden by a whippet, and I would be 30 to 50 miles an hour faster then him when I passed, but I had to start hauling on the anchors by the footbridge, and every lap, time after time, he would fly around the corner inside me,  and for the rest of the lap I was playing catchup again.  In racing trim, he had over 70Hp pushing the bikes 130Kg, and the his 50Kg, against my road trim bike with 140Hp pushing 280Kg plus. Yes I could out drag him, but his higher corner speed, and much later braking meant we had  about the same lap times.