Date: 29-05-24  Time: 10:32 am

Author Topic: About time.....  (Read 1426 times)

Exupnut

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About time.....
« on: 27 September 2013, 02:39:43 pm »
Ban on car parking cameras and 'spy cars' considered in England
1 hour ago

Roy Tunstall, from Liverpool City Council, says CCTV vans act as a "high-visibility deterrent"
Fixed cameras and what critics call spy cars used to catch people parking illegally could be banned in England.

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles said he wanted to "rein in over-zealous and unfair rules", and that traffic wardens with cameras could do the job instead.

Static and car mounted cameras have been used to issue more than 10 million fines, totalling £301m, in the past five years, the Conservatives say.

Councils say the cameras help to keep roads safe, especially near schools.

The law could be changed "well before Easter", Mr Pickles told the BBC.

Some 75 councils currently have permission to use CCTV cameras or "approved devices" to enforce parking restrictions, under Labour's 2004 Traffic Management Act.

In these areas, a third of all parking fines are now issued via CCTV rather than by parking wardens, case studies suggest.

Meanwhile, a study by the Audit Commission found one in three councils was earning more money through parking charges and school meals than council tax.

Ahead of the Tories' annual conference, which starts on Sunday, Mr Pickles said restrictions were damaging town centres and being enforced unfairly.

The party has announced a series of proposals including:

Banning static CCTV parking cameras and car mounted cameras, instead allowing only visible traffic wardens to film vehicles
Publishing "open data" on parking
Updating guidelines to help people use local shops more easily
Improving people's "rights of redress" when fined inappropriately
Stopping "unacceptable and aggressive parking fine collection practices"
Reviewing "unnecessary" yellow lines
A Conservative Party briefing says using CCTV for parking enforcement "is detrimental to natural justice", as penalty notices are received in the post "with no opportunity for the driver to examine the parking location as it was at the time of the alleged contravention".

Mr Pickles added: "We want to rein in these over-zealous and unfair rules on parking enforcement, so it focuses on supporting high streets and motorists, not raising money.

"Parking spy cars are just one example of this and a step too far. Public confidence is strengthened in CCTV if it is used to tackle crime, not to raise money for council coffers."

Civil liberties campaigners called for a "serious debate" about what they said was the UK's "uniquely high level of CCTV surveillance".

"Councils should be transparent with residents about how many tickets are being issued with CCTV and how many criminals are being convicted," said Nick Pickles from the Big Brother Watch group.

"That way residents can decide for themselves if they really are better off with the cameras watching them."

'Law is clear'

But Tony Ball, of the Local Government Association, which represents councils, said parking controls were "not about revenue raising" but were "absolutely essential" for allowing people to leave their cars near shops or their homes.

He added: "Camera cars have been instrumental in keeping children from being hurt or killed on the way to school, and CCTV plays an important role elsewhere in monitoring traffic flow and keeping cars moving.

"Nobody likes getting a parking fine but the fact that less than 1% go to adjudication shows that in the vast majority of cases councils get it right.

"Income from on-street parking fines and charges is spent on parking services with any money left over spent on services like fixing potholes and providing subsidised bus travel to children and the elderly."

'Hostility'

In response, Mr Pickles told BBC Breakfast: "It's okay for local authorities to say 'oh, it's all to save the children'. No it isn't. What this is about is raking in pretty large sums of money to fill the councils' coffers.

"The law's pretty clear. It says you're not allowed to do that. What we're going to do is enforce the law."

But road safety charity Brake said it made "very little financial or common sense" to remove cameras "which make our roads safer".

"We know that cameras are a very cost-effective way of enforcing traffic laws, while having individual officers trying to cover the same amount of work would cost a bomb," said senior campaigns officer Ellen Booth.

Meanwhile, motoring groups suggested parking policies were designed to make profit rather than improve roads.

"What really irritates drivers is the street-level hostility they feel is being waged against them," said AA president Edmund King.

"Drivers feel that civil enforcement officers are lurking in every street and are not there to deter them but to issue a ticket as soon as the driver's back is turned."

Professor Stephen Glaister, director of the RAC Foundation added: "Nobody wants a parking free for all, but they do want reasonable charges and fairness, whatever method is used to achieve it."
Just flapping about on this stagnant little pond on the outer rim of the internet.....yup....  :-))

Lawrence

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Re: About time.....
« Reply #1 on: 27 September 2013, 02:56:57 pm »
Quote
Meanwhile, a study by the Audit Commission found one in three councils was earning more money through parking charges and school meals than council tax.

Does this mean my council tax is about to double?

Punkstig

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Re: About time.....
« Reply #2 on: 27 September 2013, 05:25:19 pm »
"Nobody likes getting a parking fine but the fact that less than 1% go to adjudication shows that in the vast majority of cases councils get it right.


Yet another bad use of statistics- the local authority cancels the majority of challenged PCN's before the adjudication date, why? Because they got it wrong!


Today I challenged my latest PCN sent through post via CCTV, I told them I'm using their own video as my evidence and if they continue to waste my time I WILL waste theirs.
Past experience is when they send the letter cancelling the date for adjudication there's an option to make it still go to the adjudicators!
Some say...

Farjo

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Re: About time.....
« Reply #3 on: 27 September 2013, 06:14:27 pm »
If drivers don't want to pay fines then they can stop parking illegally - dur!

Punkstig

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Re: About time.....
« Reply #4 on: 27 September 2013, 06:35:57 pm »
If drivers don't want to pay fines then they can stop parking illegally - dur!


Is this coming from experience?


Do you have any ideas how annoying it is to get a ticket when parked legally, its slightly annoying, only slightly, taking time out to do an online questionnaire to say that it was issued incorrectly, however, that's not the end of it, at least 90% of my objections are rejected in the first instance, despite providing evidence that I'm loading/ unloading legally, after this first refusal they send threatening letters demanding you pay them, you take now unnecessary time to object to this second letter for which afterwards you're sent a third letter saying its going to an adjudicator and if you don't pay up now then the fine will be doubled (that's now £260 for London!)


The first couple of times you go through this its really stressful, mainly because of how they word their letters, expecting you to pay up, you constantly question yourself, 'Am I really in the wrong?'
You worry about whether you've read a sign wrong and find yourself going back to the road several times to re read the signage.


After you've been through it a number of times it just becomes annoying and time wasting.


Personal experience- the traffic wombles aren't that bad, you still wouldn't find me doing that job just because they are 'the scum of the earth' in everyone's eyes, but they're a dam site better than the CCTV controllers!


Otherwise, yes, I completely agree- if you don't want a fine don't park illegally/ stop in yellow junction boxes/ or make illegal turns, the signs are there, its not rocket science!
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AdieR

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Re: About time.....
« Reply #5 on: 28 September 2013, 12:33:32 am »
About bloody time too.

Round here, the council "decided" to make a number of town centre streets no-parking zones, to be "suitably enforced".
So we have a situation now, where we have ever-increasing traffic volumes, and authorities creating no-parking zones...

ChristoT

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Re: About time.....
« Reply #6 on: 28 September 2013, 12:59:31 am »
About bloody time too.

Round here, the council "decided" to make a number of town centre streets no-parking zones, to be "suitably enforced".
So we have a situation now, where we have ever-increasing traffic volumes, and authorities creating no-parking zones...

Same in Dinan, my hometown in France.

They've cut off huge areas of parking, made the rest of it paying (when only a few narrow streets had meters) - and then they're surprised when tourism goes down, and shops go bust!!

So they hire the village idiot to come up with this parking arrangement?
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Re: About time.....
« Reply #7 on: 28 September 2013, 02:03:33 am »
If drivers don't want to pay fines then they can stop parking illegally - dur!


Is this coming from experience?


Do you have any ideas how annoying it is to get a ticket when parked legally, its slightly annoying, only slightly, taking time out to do an online questionnaire to say that it was issued incorrectly, however, that's not the end of it, at least 90% of my objections are rejected in the first instance, despite providing evidence that I'm loading/ unloading legally, after this first refusal they send threatening letters demanding you pay them, you take now unnecessary time to object to this second letter for which afterwards you're sent a third letter saying its going to an adjudicator and if you don't pay up now then the fine will be doubled (that's now £260 for London!)


The first couple of times you go through this its really stressful, mainly because of how they word their letters, expecting you to pay up, you constantly question yourself, 'Am I really in the wrong?'
You worry about whether you've read a sign wrong and find yourself going back to the road several times to re read the signage.


After you've been through it a number of times it just becomes annoying and time wasting.


Personal experience- the traffic wombles aren't that bad, you still wouldn't find me doing that job just because they are 'the scum of the earth' in everyone's eyes, but they're a dam site better than the CCTV controllers!


Otherwise, yes, I completely agree- if you don't want a fine don't park illegally/ stop in yellow junction boxes/ or make illegal turns, the signs are there, its not rocket science!


stopping in yellow box junctions is  sometimes unavoidable when the twat in front decides to stop and leave a car length plus between the vehicle in front and holding off entering the box to see if it is a twat in front can lead to losing space :rolleyes

talking with cager head on 8)
« Last Edit: 28 September 2013, 02:04:39 am by midden »
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DILLIGAFF


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Re: About time.....
« Reply #8 on: 28 September 2013, 11:47:49 am »
I used to drive in to the West End of London every day back in the 70-80s and it was usual even then to pick up 2 or 3 tickets every week.




I always thought a good option would be to................


1.   Pass a "London capable" driving test to weed out all the morons
2.   This would make you eligible to apply for a special "London Tax disc" at a cost of, let's say £400 pa
3.   This would allow you to par anywhere in London as long as it was reasonable and safe.


4.  Anyone parking like a twat or causing danger or hazard gets a £100 fine and 3 strikes lose their London Tax permit????








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