Author Topic: Clutch problems? (Read 3403 times)

Yamazer-92 · « **on:** 05 July 2013, 08:18:46 pm »

Quick question, how would I be able to tell if my clutch has had it? Since I've had the bike it is tricky to pull away and compared to other bikes I've owned the clutch isn't smooth, I don't really enjoy pulling away or slow speed on this bike at all. I thought it may just be character of the bike but I'm now starting to think otherwise and it's getting more and more annoying. A friend of mine has a thundercat that replaced her clutch a while ago and the plates were blue, it was very worn. She said it sounds like mine has similar symptoms. I isn't making any noise I don't think, sometimes when I change gear it snatches a little but the most annoying thing like I say is pulling away. I don't really want to drain all the oil to check the plates because I've only just changed it and should have looked then but never thought. Any help would be appreciated thanks.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 July 2013, 08:30:50 pm »

What exactly is happening? Is it slipping or not disengaging properly?

You can check the plates without draining the oil as well. If you put the bike on the side stand the oil level drops far enough on the clutch side that you can remove the cover without any oil leaking. I've done this myself so can confirm it works (unless its been well and truely over-filled :P)

Punkstig · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 July 2013, 08:50:33 pm »

Sounds like the same characteristics of heavy duty Kevlar lined plates!

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 July 2013, 08:53:07 pm »

It isn't slipping massively but it does a little and just feels crap when pulling away. It varies as sometimes it's okay and sometimes its really poor, changes with heat perhaps? Also sometimes when I change gear, it engages fine and cuts the revs, I select the next gear then when slowly release the clutch lever the next gear snatches in really fast which makes the bike feel jerky although that doesn't happen too often.

Ah right well that is good to know, will the gasket need replacing if I check the plates? Is it a hard job? I think the first thing would be to check to see the clutch condition.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #4 on:** 05 July 2013, 08:55:50 pm »

Hmm I'm not sure punkstig I've never ridden another Fazer or a bike with heavy duty plates so I wouldn't know the difference, what would they look like? Why would someone have installed them if that is the case?

Dead Eye · « **Reply #5 on:** 05 July 2013, 09:45:38 pm »

Ideally yes, you should replace the gasket - they are pretty cheap though which is good

Sounds like the plates are wearing down but you won't know officially until you open it up. I guess you know what you are looking for; blueing on the metal plates and the amount of friction material left on the others

darrsi · « **Reply #6 on:** 05 July 2013, 09:52:09 pm »

Is the clutch cable adjusted correctly?

unfazed · « **Reply #7 on:** 05 July 2013, 10:00:37 pm »

Are you sure it is not a cable problem or dry lever hinge issue. Spray penentrating oil or WD40 in around the lever hinge and see if it improves, check the cable for damage. Then remove the sprocket cover and check if the lever/cable moves freely.
Dismantling the clutch assembly should be you last resort if all of the above are ruled out
I have come accross cases of the cable fraying at the end inside the sprocket cover and causinf all sorts of problems. I have seen one where a part of the frayed cable got in the mechanism in the sprocket cover and had all the hallmarks of a slipping/dodgy clutch.

darrsi · « **Reply #8 on:** 05 July 2013, 10:23:03 pm »

Quote from: unfazed on 05 July 2013, 10:00:37 pm

Are you sure it is not a cable problem or dry lever hinge issue. Spray penentrating oil or WD40 in around the lever hinge and see if it improves, check the cable for damage. Then remove the sprocket cover and check if the lever/cable moves freely.
Dismantling the clutch assembly should be you last resort if all of the above are ruled out
I have come accross cases of the cable fraying at the end inside the sprocket cover and causinf all sorts of problems. I have seen one where a part of the frayed cable got in the mechanism in the sprocket cover and had all the hallmarks of a slipping/dodgy clutch.

Yeah, that's what i meant

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #9 on:** 05 July 2013, 10:26:15 pm »

A few months ago, I adjusted the clutch and throttle cables as they felt a bit loose for my liking and this improved the feel of the clutch but the issue was still there. A few weeks back I removed the cable entirely and inspected and lubed it with the tiny bit of leftover engine oil I had remaining. Both ends were in good condition and not frayed. I put it back to where it was when I adjusted it before and it feels fine.

I don't know what the lever hinge is, but if it is the gold / brass coloured circular thing with an arm coming off of it that the bottom of the clutch cable attaches to inside the sprocket cover, then that was a little bit dry feeling yes. I tried to lube it, but I couldn't remove it as the screws were seized. I got a bit of grease in behind as best I could and it was a little better but still a bit scratchy feeling and would need removing to do a proper job. I'm not sure that alone would be causing my issue though? It moves freely enough just feels dry.

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #10 on:** 05 July 2013, 10:28:33 pm »

Just noticed the word "lever" in lever hinge and realised I'm a berk, that brass thing at the bottom is an issue though whatever that's called. The hinge on the lever feels good, my brake lever one was giving me grief a while back so I sorted that and checked the clutch one at the same time.

Fazerider · « **Reply #11 on:** 05 July 2013, 10:32:05 pm »

I had problems with the cam mechanism in the sprocket cover too. It was a pita to get the screws undone, but discovered the ball bearings in there were completely knackered. Some new ones and a good dollop of grease worked wonders for the feel of the clutch.

Punkstig · « **Reply #12 on:** 05 July 2013, 11:57:28 pm »

If it's slipping then its doubtful its heavy duty clutch plates, as you hadn't mentioned slipping I thought I'd say about the snatchy characteristics of heavy duty plates!

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #13 on:** 06 July 2013, 12:44:51 am »

Yeah sorry I just researched clutch slip and it isn't that at all, I can't actually find the words to best describe it other than "jerky" I guess (not the beef kind

) and snatchy.

Punkstig · « **Reply #14 on:** 06 July 2013, 10:02:46 am »

Quote from: Yamazer-92 on 06 July 2013, 12:44:51 am

Yeah sorry I just researched clutch slip and it isn't that at all, I can't actually find the words to best describe it other than "jerky" I guess (not the beef kind ) and snatchy.

Haha, fair enough, any idea on history- any invoices for clutch being changed, what's the mileage?

I've had 2 EBC SRK clutches, 1 on fazer, 1 on T'cat and they get a lot of getting used to, they can make you look like you haven't got a clue how to ride through stop start traffic, because essentially they weren't made for that, they're made for high rev clutch dump starts and continual fast riding.
Still not saying this is the be all end all of your problem as it could be many things.

darrsi · « **Reply #15 on:** 06 July 2013, 10:11:09 am »

Now you could be talking about unbalanced carbs, that causes a jerky feeling at lower revs!

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #16 on:** 06 July 2013, 08:47:53 pm »

I think you're probably right darrsi. I'm currently in an annoying situation of I know the carbs need balancing because I've never done them (I dont have a carbtune) and just put a k & n air filter in, but I wanted to wait until I got stainless pipes before I balanced them which I was hoping would be soon, but may now be a couple of months. So, I'll now have to let a garage balance the carbs, ride for a few months with pretty knackered original pipes held together with gun gum and prayers then get stainless and have them balanced again

.... Wasn't how I hoped to do it but seems that's how it will have to be done, the bike has always had a bit of a rough idle that is getting a bit worse recently, it's now not as smooth down in the low rpm as it was and when I put it in 6th @ 30mph like suggested to test it politely tells me to foc off. It's very smooth above 3000-4000 though.

That's interesting to bear in mind though punkstig, I can't see any invoices for clutch work and the bike has done almost 23k so not too much mileage and I can't speak for previous owners but I have always tried looking after the clutch so no wheelies for me. I think my plan is get carbs balanced, if problem still persists get front sprocket off and sort out that weird wheel arm thing. Then if it's still playing up check the actual clutch itself.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #17 on:** 06 July 2013, 09:21:48 pm »

You shouldn't need to have the carbs balanced once you replace the downpipes - its not something I would do under the same circumstances

If it makes you feel any better, my bike is rough throughout the rev range and isn't smooth in any gear no matter what you bloody do. I've put alcohol and STP Fuel Cleaner down its throat, replaced the air filter, oil, oil filter, plugs, cleaned and balanced the carbs and the bugger still isn't smooth :P New engine time me thinks

darrsi · « **Reply #18 on:** 07 July 2013, 08:37:22 am »

Quote from: Dead Eye on 06 July 2013, 09:21:48 pm

You shouldn't need to have the carbs balanced once you replace the downpipes - its not something I would do under the same circumstances

If it makes you feel any better, my bike is rough throughout the rev range and isn't smooth in any gear no matter what you bloody do. I've put alcohol and STP Fuel Cleaner down its throat, replaced the air filter, oil, oil filter, plugs, cleaned and balanced the carbs and the bugger still isn't smooth :P New engine time me thinks

Blimey, you should rename your bike ''Amy Winehouse'', does it smoke as well?

Slaninar · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 July 2013, 08:45:25 am »

A stupid question: clutch PRELOAD - at the bottom. Is that too tight perhaps?

Screw that sets preload, has a locking scrow for which you'll need a 12mm "angled" spanner

(THIS - what's it called in English?):

I'd start from there. The screw should be loose, then turned in untill you feel some resistance, minimal. Then stop. Perhaps a 1/4 of a turn more, but first try it at that point. Just to make sure it's not causing the problem. You might need to adjust the clutch cable tension again.

Haynes does a nice detailed explanation in proper, instead of Tarzan English.

Dead Eye · « **Reply #20 on:** 07 July 2013, 08:51:07 am »

You can get away with using a 10mm socket as well - that's what I used :P

darrsi · « **Reply #21 on:** 07 July 2013, 09:03:49 am »

You're right, it's an angled ring spanner.

My money's firmly on the unbalanced carbs though, i had the same issue with mine last year so i know the exact symptoms.
Mine misbehaved in a jerky manner between 2000 and 3000rpm, above that and it was fine.
But as i ride a lot in traffic it was a bloody nightmare!

Yamazer-92 · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 July 2013, 08:52:36 pm »

Well guys there has been a breakthrough and it's good news!

Salanair, thank you very much you absolutely nailed it. Totally slackened the cable adjusters at the lever then took off the rubber bung at the front sprocket preload adjuster to look at it. Was immensely tight, a struggle to even undo. So I put it to the spec suggested, re adjusted at the cable and my God it feels amazing now. Didn't realise how bad it was until now, felt like it was doing what I wanted not trying to fight against me. The carbs will still need to be balanced though but as for the actual problem, it was indeed the preload adjuster. Very glad it isn't the actual clutch that's the issue though. Thanks again for all the help everyone.