Braided Brake Line failure?

[Deefer666]

Cheers both.  Will take the pads out tonight and have a good look at the disc surface / pads/ retaining pins and clean everything up.  Otherwise will try lines then discs. Because the juddering started right after changing the pads it's leading me to think it's related, but then the braking power with the new pads is so much stronger so it could be showing up a problem that was already existing somewhere else..

Check that your pads went into the caliper "square" & aren't snagged up on the anti rattle plate, check the pin for grooves where the loop of the pad sits, when reassembling put a smear of copperslip ON THE BACK OF THE PAD. And smear the pin with copperslip when you put it back through.

[Adam2201]

Cheers deefer.  I did find it hard to tell if the pads were seated properly in the plate on the front calipers compared to the back, but because the pin went through easily I just assumed it was ok. I don't think I put any copper grease on the front pins either, so will try that.  Looking at the price of discs, I'm hoping I can find a cheaper fix!

[Adam2201]

Hi guys, sorry if I'm hijacking the thread -feel free to tell me to foc off!  Just checked the brakes and I think I've found the source of the judder.  The retaining spring that sits on top of the pads on the left hand caliper seems to be warped  - you can rock it up and down by pushing on either end and it knocks against the caliper body.  I'm guessing it's knackered and needs replacing, but just to be sure I'm not doing something very stupid, does this look like it's seated properly?:

It's the same on the right hand side, and that spring doesn't move so I'm guessing it's positioned properly and it just got bent or warped at some point in the bike's life? The pin on the left has small grooves as well, probably because the pads have juddered around so much.

[darrsi]

Hi guys, sorry if I'm hijacking the thread -feel free to tell me to foc off!  Just checked the brakes and I think I've found the source of the judder.  The retaining spring that sits on top of the pads on the left hand caliper seems to be warped  - you can rock it up and down by pushing on either end and it knocks against the caliper body.  I'm guessing it's knackered and needs replacing, but just to be sure I'm not doing something very stupid, does this look like it's seated properly?:

It's the same on the right hand side, and that spring doesn't move so I'm guessing it's positioned properly and it just got bent or warped at some point in the bike's life? The pin on the left has small grooves as well, probably because the pads have juddered around so much.

You're not hijacking the thread, it was mine from September 2012.


Hard to tell anything from a photo, but there's not much that can really go wrong with the retaining spring to be honest, so i doubt it's warped?
They have little arrows on them, make sure it's positioned correctly with the arrow pointing upwards.

[Adam2201]

Yeah, the arrow is pointing forwards, and the tabs at the end of the spring are supposed to be touching the caliper body aren't they? I mean, they don't engage with the pad? I just can't understand why one side has no movement at all, but the other side clatters against the caliper when they are both fitted the same way.  I must be doing something wrong!

[darrsi]

There's not really much you can get wrong, because the pad pin can only go in one hole, and the retaining spring can only really sit with the pin guided through the curved parts of the spring.

[Adam2201]

I can't figure out how to post a video up to show you, but if you put a finger at either end of the spring you can rock it backwards and forwards against the caliper body, whereas the one on the right just doesn't move at all.  Found a few more posts on here saying the same thing about the spring (I think one is from you from when you were having problems with juddering) and talking about modding the spring so I will have a good read through those and see if I can figure it out.  Cheers for the help, I feel like I'm getting somewhere with it, as the sensation when you brake does feel like the pads are chattering about in the caliper.

[darrsi]

Shouldn't really matter if there's a bit of movement back and forth, unless it's ridiculously loose.
When you brake the motion of the wheel and the obviously the friction of the pad will only be pulling the pad forwards, there's no way the pad will go backwards at all, the force will be way too much.
It's the pad pin that takes all the weight, and that's positioned in the middle so there's bound to be movement either way when the brakes aren't being applied.


I did try that pad spring mod, and all it does is push the pads forward and keeps them in that position at all times.
The thing i found though is firstly i now know it's not necessary at all, and more importantly it was a proper struggle getting the pad pin in, it was really hard work.

[darrsi]

For the record I had a look at my pad spring this morning and it has about 6mm play in it to rock forwards or backwards, but it will always be in the forward position because that's the way the disc rotates and brakes (unless reversing obviously).
Maybe you should be looking at the spring that isn't moving at all, and make sure that one is seated properly?

[Adam2201]

Cheers for that darrsi, this is why the forum is so useful.  I'll have a look at them both again later.  The one that is "loose" has scratched the inside of the caliper, so that's what made me thing it was "wrong", but if both of yours have play then it sounds like this is the norm.

I did a really thorough clean on the discs and the juddering seems to be gone (or very reduced), so it may have been something simple like the new pads leaving a build up of material in one place (or it could have been taking them out and putting back in, greasing).  I will try a harder stop on the way home tonight to see if I can get it to do it again.   I'm going drop new pins in anyway, and will do the hoses soon so will see how it goes. 

either way, the pad and fluid change made a massive difference to the braking - I couldn't understand why everyone raved about Fazer brakes when I first got the bike!