Parking fine advice

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Like I said ignore ignore ignore.

By contacting them you have identified yourself as the driver of the offending car.
They can now pursue you for the cash.

Even though you have identified yourself I would go back to ignore.  Though it is cheap to go through the small claims court, and they can claim their 40 submission costs off you, I don't think they can claim any other costs (I say think....) so it's probably not worth them spending time getting the cash of you, even though you have given them the inforation that they require to do so.

I think private parking law is the same in Scotland, Wales and England. 

Tickets issued by private companiesPrivate companies can issue tickets to drivers parked on their property, but the rules are not the same as local authorities. If you receive a ticket in a private car park, such as a supermarket car park, or private multi-story car park, remember that it is not criminal law, but contract law that applies. The driver enters into a contract with the landowner when they driver into the car park. This means that it is only the driver that can be subject to a ticket from a private company. If they do not know who the driver was, they cannot claim a penalty. They have no legal right to demand that you identify the driver. If you are approached by a member of staff inside a private car park there is no obligation for you to assist them in any way If the company wish to pursue a claim in the small claims court, they have to prove that you were the driver of the car. Any comments that you make may assist them in this aim, so best to say nothing. If you refuse to pay, the private company has to pursue you through the small claims court. It is up to them to prove a breach of contract so look at the terms carefully. These are usually printed on a sign at the entrance to the car park. Additionally, you may be able to reduce any fine issued by a private company. Under contract law, they can only claim for any loss they have suffered because of your offence. They may try to claim a penalty of, say, £100, but in law they may only be entitled to any revenue they had lost. So, if you pay £2 to park for one hour, but stay for three hours, they can only claim for two hours of lost revenue, which is £4.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1708393/How-fight-parking-ticket.html

[Streetbudgie]

Sorry VNA but the above post is wrong, contacting them does not identify you as the driver of the car and anyway this does not matter as the charge is unenforceable.

As far as your extract from 'this is money' that is wholly inaccurate as well, contract law cannot apply as you have to enter the car park to read 'the contract' as it posted on signs in the car park - what happens if you reject 'the contract' and drive out without parking? Most of these PPC's use ANPR cameras and you are invoiced as your number shows up even though you didn't park.

There is a lot of bad information on the web about these invoices and even Citizens Advice get it totally wrong and advise to pay then try to claim it back - no chance! MSE also has a lot of misinformation as well by uninformed posters.

This is a little hobby of mine and the best advice is found on the Consumer Advice Group forum, someone posted a link earlier in the thread.

In Scotland the registered keeper cannot be pursued by the Private Parking Company (PPC) and also in Scotland the RK is not obliged to reveal the driver. There is also no trespass law in Scotland so that's a bit different as well.

In the UK since October last year the RK can be pursued by the PPC with requests for payment, however this does not make the charge any more enforceable.

The reasons are:

1) only the land owner can claim losses for you parking on the land, the PPC's do not own the land and therefore cannot claim any losses
2) the PPC have to hold a contract with the land owner giving them rights to take action on their behalf and that cannot be used as the only reason for taking any action is trespass which you have not committed as the land owner has given you an implied right of access.
3) the PPC has to provide a breakdown of costs which show the invoice is for actual costs as only Plod, Local Authorities and Court can fine you, they can't prove the costs so the only amount they can claim is the actual losses - so for an overstay in a free car park what is their loss - exactly zero.

I ignore some and I play with others, even the most determined PPC Parking Eye get trounced every time they go near court (which isn't often) and the only cases they have 'won' turn out to be a relative, an ex employee/director or not defended.

PPC invoices are a total scam and designed to intimidate the recipient into paying when they don't owe a penny.

They send you a chain of begging letters and then pass the 'debt' on to a Debt Collecting agency which is actually just the next desk monkey along - never, ever deal with a DCA, all you need to say to them is 'any alleged debt is denied, refer to your client'

These scam artists need to be exposed and stopped and it's about time the Government got involved in this.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Streetbudgie,

All I was trying to do was explain why you ignore them.  Ignore em, and if as is usually the case nothing happens - end of matter.

Google is your geek.  Get a ticket, a few googles and you soon realise the general advice is ignore ignore ignore.

As far as your extract from 'this is money' that is wholly inaccurate as well, contract law cannot apply as you have to enter the car park to read 'the contract' as it posted on signs in the car park - what happens if you reject 'the contract' and drive out without parking? Most of these PPC's use ANPR cameras and you are invoiced as your number shows up even though you didn't park.

If you reject the contract and drive out you have not entered into a contract as you have not parked.

There is a lot of bad information on the web about these invoices and even Citizens Advice get it totally wrong and advise to pay then try to claim it back - no chance!

The CAB advise is available here - http://http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_driving_and_parking_e/consumer_parking_tickets_e/consumer_parking_tickets_on_private_land_e/youve_got_a_parking_ticket_on_private_land_what_can_you_do.htm

Your claim that the CAB advise you to pay and claim it back is wholly inaccurate.

They also post links to other sites advising on parking tickets as well as the consumer action group forum on private parking - handy for anybody who does end up being pursued for a ticket.

[Streetbudgie]

Ignore is not the most up to date advice, the latest best course of action is to send the prove contract and breakdown of costs letter then ignore.

Personally I prefer to ignore but I do play with them sometimes and go through the non existent appeal then appeal to POPLA which costs the PPC money but but the decision is not binding on the applicant, only on the PPC

Your CAB advice link above is broken but there are plenty of examples on CAG where CAB have advised to pay the invoice then try to claim it back - not sure why you are questioning this, I wasn't digging at you, I was just trying to clarify for the OP that there is misleading advice on the net and from CAB ( who in my experience are not experts in anything).

The OP should be armed with all the information so they can make an informed choice on the action they want to take - above all they need to be advised that the charge is unenforceable and they should not pay it.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Ignore is not the most up to date advice, the latest best course of action is to send the prove contract and breakdown of costs letter then ignore.

That depends on the situation.  Firstly the best thing to do is avoid getting a ticket in the first place.
If the parking company is not a member of the BPA, then ignore will do nicely as it's unlikely that they will be able to contact you.

Your CAB advice link above is broken but there are plenty of examples on CAG where CAB have advised to pay the invoice then try to claim it back - not sure why you are questioning this, I wasn't digging at you, I was just trying to clarify for the OP that there is misleading advice on the net and from CAB ( who in my experience are not experts in anything).

Sorry, will post link again, it's a long one so maybe that's the prob. If it doesnae work just google Citizens Advice Bureau and parking tickets.  There's some quite good and detailed advice there, so I dunno why you are slagging em off. 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_driving_and_parking_e/consumer_parking_tickets_e.htm

or cut and paste this;
www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_driving_and_parking_e/consumer_parking_tickets_e.htm

[Tori]

Ignore is not the most up to date advice, the latest best course of action is to send the prove contract and breakdown of costs letter then ignore.

Personally I prefer to ignore but I do play with them sometimes and go through the non existent appeal then appeal to POPLA which costs the PPC money but but the decision is not binding on the applicant, only on the PPC

Your CAB advice link above is broken but there are plenty of examples on CAG where CAB have advised to pay the invoice then try to claim it back - not sure why you are questioning this, I wasn't digging at you, I was just trying to clarify for the OP that there is misleading advice on the net and from CAB ( who in my experience are not experts in anything).

The OP should be armed with all the information so they can make an informed choice on the action they want to take - above all they need to be advised that the charge is unenforceable and they should not pay it.

I've just decided I'm going to sellotape my letterbox up Problem solved.

[Stooby2]

Anyway, ignore, ignore, ignore and they'll go away.

No, no and no!!! Things have changed and that advice is no longer correct.

Tori get on the MSE forum or Pepipoo and get some proper advice from people who really know what they're talking about! The PCN is easily defeated, you just need to go about it the right way.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I wish I'd never posted on this

The first thing to do is still to ignore.  If they are a BPA member they'll be able to figure out who is the keeper of the vehicle, so you'll probably hear from them.

I'd follow the CAB advice, and you can get further advice in person from your local CAB office if you have one.

And of the course the good thing about CAB, for me anyway, if that they understand the different legal systems in the UK.

I looked at Pepipoo, which certainly looks handy, though they've got five pages of current postings on whether to ignore or not.  Good luck with that.

Anyway good luck with yer parking ticket, do some research, take appropriate action and don't foccing pay it

And don't forget - there's shit in em burgers.  McDonalds suck.

[locksmith]

I just love internet forums and the greyness of black and white

[Tori]

I wish I'd never posted on this

The first thing to do is still to ignore.  If they are a BPA member they'll be able to figure out who is the keeper of the vehicle, so you'll probably hear from them.

I'd follow the CAB advice, and you can get further advice in person from your local CAB office if you have one.

And of the course the good thing about CAB, for me anyway, if that they understand the different legal systems in the UK.

I looked at Pepipoo, which certainly looks handy, though they've got five pages of current postings on whether to ignore or not.  Good luck with that.

Anyway good luck with yer parking ticket, do some research, take appropriate action and don't foccing pay it

And don't forget - there's shit in em burgers.  McDonalds suck.

You can stop posting now then

I just love internet forums and the greyness of black and white

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Do let us know the outcome.

Sorry, posted again.

[Tori]

Well I've heard nothing since. Maybe they forgot about me

[VNA - BMW Wank]

So far so good.  Fingers crossed.

Should be a time limit, lord knows what it is, for pursuing such matters.

[Deefer666]

Ignore it, Laura got one for stopping in a car park at a ferry port to drop someone off.... They will send you letters threatening stuff and ever increasing fines but at the end of the day they haven't got the power to do anything so just bin the letters

[Gingernutz]

I had this happen in aldi when I left the polo for a few hours. The advice I was given is that the fine is not enforceable because it was unreasonable high and although sign posted it does not mean you have to pay. I emailed and offered £1.20 the standard parking charge in the area as a reasonable and proportionate payment. Never heard from them again.

[Stooby2]

Ignore it, Laura got one for stopping in a car park at a ferry port to drop someone off.... They will send you letters threatening stuff and ever increasing fines but at the end of the day they haven't got the power to do anything so just bin the letters

NO!! This is wrong, things have changed and the advice to ignore PCNs is no longer correct. Parking companies ARE taking people to court now, but their paperwork trail and compliance with the regulations they have to follow is so poor it is simple to defeat them long before it gets that far.


Tori, please read and post on the MSE forum where you will get informed advice from people who do this all day long.

[Punkstig]

This type of charge isn't a PCN,

Just sayin!

[Tori]

Second letter demanding payment arrived. I've filed it with the original

Stooby, let them try to pursue me. The sign saying the parking is 90 minutes is on the wrong side of the road, about a foot across and unlit.

It wasn't me. There are two people insured on my insurance. It was him. Lol!

[Hedgetrimmer]

I got a nice surprise the other day. Came back to the car to find someone had put a notice on the windscreen which said "parking fine". I thought it was really nice of them to say so as I thought the car wasn't quite straight in the bay......

[Skippernick]

I got a nice surprise the other day. Came back to the car to find someone had put a notice on the windscreen which said "parking fine". I thought it was really nice of them to say so as I thought the car wasn't quite straight in the bay......

 

[Lazarus]

ive had multiple letters on this - ignored every single one of them.

havent heard from them in a good 2 months.

one fact is that if they do take me to court, they can never prove I actually received any of the letters they sent - NONE of them were recorded.