old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Dcock on 26 August 2013, 06:55:04 pm
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So i hate how spongey the forks are, will changing from 10w oil to 15w oil make a reasonable amount of difference? Or do i really need new springs?
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Both, just oil is a cheap fix, but not as good as replacing springs too!
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Yes, yes, yes it does make a big difference. :thumbup
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i put 15 in mine but i found it a bit hard so removed 100mm and replaced it with 100mm of 7.5 works a treat.
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I've never found out how long fork springs are supposed to last for. The bike has progressive springs in as standard so what would be the difference swapping them for other progressive springs etc.
I would imagine the oil would get buggered over time though
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Japanese springs usually last a long time, I would estimate they'd only change a couple of mm in 50000 miles or possibly the entire lifetime of the vehicle
I think changing fork oil should be done reasonably often, i go for every 2 years or 10000 miles, whatever comes sooner. I realise others never change theirs as its 'non-scheduled maintenance' according to Mr Haynes
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right i think i'll have a go at changing the oil when i get some spare time then. Thanks.
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right i think i'll have a go at changing the oil when i get some spare time then. Thanks.
Make sure you read the correct oil level for your 98/99 bike, it's different from 00/01 bikes or later. ;)
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Yeah... I probably should have remembered that before doing mine... ah well, I'll just hope for the best :D
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Very nearly caught me out 'cos i swapped my forks for the older type.
It's natural to look at things in the manual for the year of your bike!
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I put 15W in my bike 18 months ago. I think the difference is astounding. And for that kind of money, its a well worth while job.
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I put 15W in my bike 18 months ago. I think the difference is astounding. And for that kind of money, its a well worth while job.
Hi all,
Apologies for dragging up an old post, i was going to do the 15W oil change this weekend, how many liters of oil should i buy? I can find the air gap values, but cant seem to to find how much that translates to in ml in each fork?
just need a rough idea, no point buying loads if i don't need it, or get halfway through and realise i don't have enough!
Thanks,
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You wont need more than 1 Litre of fork oil. The actual amount needed per side is mentioned in the Haynes or workshop manual-check the downloads section on here. From memory its 400 AND SOMETHING ml per leg-actual amount varies with model year of forks fitted.
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1 litre should do it, but there isn't a lot to spare, so don't spill any.
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475 cc for 98 and 99 ,, 2000 on 465cc per leg
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Best way is by measuring the air gap at the top to make sure they're both even.
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Best way is by measuring the air gap at the top to make sure they're both even.
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Best way is by measuring the air gap at the top to make sure they're both even.
You need to be careful showing that picture because the air gap and oil levels are different for forks without adjusters compared to ones that do have them.
98/99 models (without fork adjusters on top):
475cc oil
121mm air gap
00-03 models (with fork adjusters on top):
465cc oil
132mm air gap
Just for the record, i am of the opinion that the fork adjusters do absolutely sod all.
When i had them on my forks they were always screwed right in to attempt to firm up the front end but with little effect.
Due to another issue i changed my forks for an older set that didn't have adjusters on then put the 15w oil in and there was a very nice difference as far as handling was concerned, and it was so suitable for me that i just didn't bother swapping the adjusters back over.
If you ever change the fork oil then upgrading to 15w is a small mod that i would totally recommend without any doubt, that can improve the front end handling of the bike for no extra cost.
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You wont need more than 1 Litre of fork oil. The actual amount needed per side is mentioned in the Haynes or workshop manual-check the downloads section on here. From memory its 400 AND SOMETHING ml per leg-actual amount varies with model year of forks fitted.
Thanks Dave!
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1 litre should do it, but there isn't a lot to spare, so don't spill any.
Thanks Jamie
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475 cc for 98 and 99 ,, 2000 on 465cc per leg
Thanks Daviee
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Best way is by measuring the air gap at the top to make sure they're both even.
Perfect thanks Celticdog
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Best way is by measuring the air gap at the top to make sure they're both even.
You need to be careful showing that picture because the air gap and oil levels are different for forks without adjusters compared to ones that do have them.
98/99 models (without fork adjusters on top):
475cc oil
121mm air gap
00-03 models (with fork adjusters on top):
465cc oil
132mm air gap
Just for the record, i am of the opinion that the fork adjusters do absolutely sod all.
When i had them on my forks they were always screwed right in to attempt to firm up the front end but with little effect.
Due to another issue i changed my forks for an older set that didn't have adjusters on then put the 15w oil in and there was a very nice difference as far as handling was concerned, and it was so suitable for me that i just didn't bother swapping the adjusters back over.
If you ever change the fork oil then upgrading to 15w is a small mod that i would totally recommend without any doubt, that can improve the front end handling of the bike for no extra cost.
Thanks Darrsi, you always come up with the goods.
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I've never had a front end problem that many here have experienced, but I had a leaking fork seal so had to change mine the other week (along with a kebab-supplied R6 shock on the back). The first thing I noticed was that the oil that came out was in excellent condition and very, very thick. Much more so than the 15w I put back in. There is no noticeable difference in the front end since the change and I wondered if for some reason fork oil thickens up as it gets old?? Mine had been in for at least 35k miles.
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I've never had a front end problem that many here have experienced, but I had a leaking fork seal so had to change mine the other week (along with a kebab-supplied R6 shock on the back). The first thing I noticed was that the oil that came out was in excellent condition and very, very thick. Much more so than the 15w I put back in. There is no noticeable difference in the front end since the change and I wondered if for some reason fork oil thickens up as it gets old?? Mine had been in for at least 35k miles.
Oil would thin out over time, but don't forget you can buy heavier oil than 15w as well.
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I've never had a front end problem that many here have experienced, but I had a leaking fork seal so had to change mine the other week (along with a kebab-supplied R6 shock on the back). The first thing I noticed was that the oil that came out was in excellent condition and very, very thick. Much more so than the 15w I put back in. There is no noticeable difference in the front end since the change and I wondered if for some reason fork oil thickens up as it gets old?? Mine had been in for at least 35k miles.
Hey Wookie, Did the old oil stink when you took it out.
I changed mine when i did some modding to my suspension over winter and it was Minging, smell like rotting fish. and was metallic silver grey in colour.
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Darrsi is right when he says about the oil levels being slightly different between the Boxeye and the Foxeye.
The Boxeye has 10 millilitres (10cc) less oil per leg than the Foxeye, the reason for this is that the Foxeye Damper Rods in the base of the fork leg sliders/bottoms are shorter they are 190 mm as apposed to the Boxeyes 210 mm, the slight larger Damper Rods in the Boxeye displaces the oil a little more raising the level in the forks so the Foxeye needs the extra 10 millilitres (10cc) to make up that shortfall. Bearing in mind a house-hold teaspoon is said to hold 5cc so we are talking very little indeed, in fact two teaspoons full per leg.
10 Millilitres = 10 Cubic Centimetres, 10 ml and 10 cc are the same amount.
Again bearing in mind all these parameters are set by Yamaha with the Yamaha spring in place, the Linear Ohlins springs that I fitted was very slightly lighter in gauge so the displacement of that spring was slightly less that the Dual Rate Yamaha spring, plus, I had to take into account the Emulators that I fitted, I opted initially for 465 millilitres in each leg, hoping that the slightly lighter gauge spring would compensate for the oil displaced made by the Emulators, but I upped the oil level back to the recommended Yamaha level by 475 millilitres and found the ride to be better, but still i felt in was topping out a little when under a lot of power accelerating hard out of bends. I removed with a surgical syringe and clear capillary pipe 100 millilitres of the 15 weight oil that I used from each leg and replaced it with 30 weight oil.
I took the bike out for a ride and initially did not notice any difference but after about 30 miles or so the forks stopped topping out, due to the slightly slower damping effect of the slightly heavier oil. it took about 30 miles for the two different weight oils to mix and generally upgrade to a slightly heavier oil.
So the oil in my forks are 475 mls, made up of 375 mls of 15 weight and 100ml of 30 weight, again bearing in mind my forks are no longer Damper Rod forks but Cartridge Emulators, with the emulator set at 3 full turns in from the initial Emulator spring contact.
For me this is perfect, plenty of feel with the road, no harsh crashing out as forks plunge under heavy braking or bumpy surfaces also with the oli combination no feeling of the forks topping under hard accelerating.
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Darrsi is right when he says about the oil levels being slightly different between the Boxeye and the Foxeye.
The Boxeye has 10 millilitres (10cc) less oil per leg than the Foxeye, the reason for this is that the Foxeye Damper Rods in the base of the fork leg sliders/bottoms are shorter they are 190 mm as apposed to the Boxeyes 210 mm, the slight larger Damper Rods in the Boxeye displaces the oil a little more raising the level in the forks so the Foxeye needs the extra 10 millilitres (10cc) to make up that shortfall. Bearing in mind a house-hold teaspoon is said to hold 5cc so we are talking very little indeed, in fact two teaspoons full per leg.
10 Millilitres = 10 Cubic Centimetres, 10 ml and 10 cc are the same amount.
Again bearing in mind all these parameters are set by Yamaha with the Yamaha spring in place, the Linear Ohlins springs that I fitted was very slightly lighter in gauge so the displacement of that spring was slightly less that the Dual Rate Yamaha spring, plus, I had to take into account the Emulators that I fitted, I opted initially for 465 millilitres in each leg, hoping that the slightly lighter gauge spring would compensate for the oil displaced made by the Emulators, but I upped the oil level back to the recommended Yamaha level by 475 millilitres and found the ride to be better, but still i felt in was topping out a little when under a lot of power accelerating hard out of bends. I removed with a surgical syringe and clear capillary pipe 100 millilitres of the 15 weight oil that I used from each leg and replaced it with 30 weight oil.
I took the bike out for a ride and initially did not notice any difference but after about 30 miles or so the forks stopped topping out, due to the slightly slower damping effect of the slightly heavier oil. it took about 30 miles for the two different weight oils to mix and generally upgrade to a slightly heavier oil.
So the oil in my forks are 475 mls, made up of 375 mls of 15 weight and 100ml of 30 weight, again bearing in mind my forks are no longer Damper Rod forks but Cartridge Emulators, with the emulator set at 3 full turns in from the initial Emulator spring contact.
For me this is perfect, plenty of feel with the road, no harsh crashing out as forks plunge under heavy braking or bumpy surfaces also with the oli combination no feeling of the forks topping under hard accelerating.
Not exactly what i said Tommy.
98/99 Boxeye is different to 00/01 Boxeye & 02/03 Foxeye
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The term pedantic comes to mind Darrsi.
If it was exactly what you said Darrsi then there would have been no point in saying it. :wall :wall
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The term pedantic comes to mind Darrsi.
If it was exactly what you said Darrsi then there would have been no point in saying it. :wall :wall
Pedantic is good, it's all about being accurate.
For example my bike is a 2000 yet my forks are from a 98/99, which don't have the adjusters.
If i wasn't pedantic i would look up the year of my bike and put the wrong amount of oil in the forks. :lol
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Well I would have assumed, in fact I did assume that most of the bikes in here are pretty much standard bikes, not ones that are made up of all sorts of parts from all different years.
Years ago we use to call them old dogs
Pedantic: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pedantic (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pedantic)
Pedantic means "like a pedant," someone who's too concerned with literal accuracy or formality. It's a negative term that implies someone is showing off book learning or trivia, especially in a tiresome way.
Personification (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/personification) · Pensive (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pensive) · Petulant (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/petulant) · Peculiar (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/peculiar)
Pedantic = Darrsi :finger
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Well I would have assumed, in fact I did assume that most of the bikes in here are pretty much standard bikes, not ones that are made up of all sorts of parts from all different years.
Years ago we use to call them old dogs
Pedantic: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pedantic (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pedantic)
Pedantic means "like a pedant," someone who's too concerned with literal accuracy or formality. It's a negative term that implies someone is showing off book learning or trivia, especially in a tiresome way.
Personification (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/personification) · Pensive (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/pensive) · Petulant (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/petulant) · Peculiar (https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/peculiar)
Pedantic = Darrsi :finger
"...in a tiresome way..."
Tommy, you just wrote a post above that was like reading War And Peace.........about fork oil.
Try keeping things simple fella.
Pot, kettle and black spring to mind in this instance.
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Just ordered fork seals, dust caps and 15W fork oil. hoping it improves the amount of dive.
Mine is a Boxeye with preload adjuster: has anyone tried the preload adjusters like those on ebay?
Would post a link but cant seem to paste into window!!
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Oil would thin out over time, but don't forget you can buy heavier oil than 15w as well.
I realise this which did make me wonder what was put in there. It was almost as thick as diff oil I changed last year.....which I think was something like 75w :eek
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Hey Wookie, Did the old oil stink when you took it out.
I changed mine when i did some modding to my suspension over winter and it was Minging, smell like rotting fish. and was metallic silver grey in colour.
Nope, it was in excellent condition and it was red.
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Oil would thin out over time, but don't forget you can buy heavier oil than 15w as well.
I realise this which did make me wonder what was put in there. It was almost as thick as diff oil I changed last year.....which I think was something like 75w :eek
Highest weight of fork oil i've seen is 30w, but i doubt very much it was that from your description.
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Measure the air gap not the oil, the spring must be out and the sanction compressed all the way in. It's vital to get the model year correct the best weight oil, I found to be is 12w this you have to mix yourself, also fit up rated springs job done :)