old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: BluprintZ on 10 August 2013, 12:51:47 pm
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Ordered the 12mm mainshaft nut and tabwasher from the Yamaha dealer in Abergele yesterday, they weren't aware of the 9mm nut problem, so he said but seeing as it was only £2.99. plus postage, i didn't push the issue.
So, on inspection of the chain and sprockets (the nut was tight), it seems a new set is needed, the front sprocket is starting to hook a touch and besides, the bike had been stood for quite a while before i bought it, the chain looked like it had just been oiled after a cursory clean off of the rust i would imagine.
Anyway, any opinions on who is the best supplier of the kit on ebay?, i'm aware that some people have had issues with some suppliers, so if anyone can offer a good supplier please?
I'm also thinking of maybe going up a tooth or so on the front sprocket, anyone done this?
G ; )
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Go for the DID upgrade kit, gold and black chain which not only looks nice but lasts a long long time, they're about £85 with the sprockets, although there are several suppliers on eBay all the uk based ones are fine to use.
There's very little point going up on the front, in order to change gearing people normally adjust both sprockets, I'm currently one down on the back just because the rear wheel came off my thundercat and the difference is not noticeable. (I understand one tooth on back compared to one on the front would be a bigger ratio!)
But what are you honestly trying to achieve? Fuel consumption would be neglagable, and where are you going to use the 2/3 mph extra top speed?
If you do change both sprockets then its going to be more like starting off from traffic lights in 2nd gear!
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Go for the DID upgrade kit, gold and black chain which not only looks nice but lasts a long long time, they're about £85 with the sprockets, although there are several suppliers on eBay all the uk based ones are fine to use.
There's very little point going up on the front, in order to change gearing people normally adjust both sprockets, I'm currently one down on the back just because the rear wheel came off my thundercat and the difference is not noticeable. (I understand one tooth on back compared to one on the front would be a bigger ratio!)
But what are you honestly trying to achieve? Fuel consumption would be neglagable, and where are you going to use the 2/3 mph extra top speed?
If you do change both sprockets then its going to be more like starting off from traffic lights in 2nd gear!
Cheers for the advice.
When i had the Ducati Monster 900, one of the mods was to go down a couple of teeth on the front sprocket, mainly because the bike was a nightmare in town, being an L twin, it was quite lumpy in slow moving traffic, although obviously the difference in gearing showed up on the motorway, so it was a bit of a catch 22 situation with that bike.
With the Fazer, i'm finding myself looking for a seventh gear, the idea of going up a tooth on the front, is that it'll give the bike longer legs on the motorway, which i spend quite a bit of time on.
ps; i assume the kits come with a soft link included?
G ; )
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Yes, soft links are included with these chains, I know what you mean about it feels like it needs to go up another gear.
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Up one or down one on the front is more noticeable than up one or down one on the back obviously but its also cheaper that way. A front sprocket is 15 quid where a decent rear can be 30. Going down one on the front is a quick way of giving you much better acceleration but at the loss of top end ( who does 130mph anyway) just make sure you have the clearance round the swingarm though. Also a smaller front sprocket will wear your chain out a little quicker as it is going around a tighter corner faster more of the time.
Be kind to your wallet and adjust front only. Its also and easier job.
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I went down one tooth on the front, better acceleration but its too buzzy (for me) at motorway speeds, one way of keeping your speed down I suppose! I might go back to standard when the chain needs replacing. I also changed the sprocket nut to the 12mm upgrade, 9mm nut was OK but having read about the problems I wanted to get shot of it.
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I went down one tooth on the front, better acceleration but its too buzzy (for me) at motorway speeds, one way of keeping your speed down I suppose! I might go back to standard when the chain needs replacing. I also changed the sprocket nut to the 12mm upgrade, 9mm nut was OK but having read about the problems I wanted to get shot of it.
Last thing i want to do, is go down on the front sprocket, as you say John, it makes the bike way too buzzy, same problem i had with the Duc Monster.
I'm looking to go up one or two teeth on the front, to make it less buzzy than i feel it is as standard, especially on motorways, i feel it will cruise better at less revs, give the engine a bit less work to do.
You ok mate?
G ; )
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Keep us posted on your findings, I'm doing a lot of motorway miles too, although getting battered by the wind is my main problem at the mo', I'm almost happy to get to the roadworks on the M62 to have a break - "almost" that is ;)
Have you looked at the gearing spreadsheet here:
http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Effect_of_Changing (http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Effect_of_Changing)
Cheers,
Rob
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Keep us posted on your findings, I'm doing a lot of motorway miles too, although getting battered by the wind is my main problem at the mo', I'm almost happy to get to the roadworks on the M62 to have a break - "almost" that is ;)
Have you looked at the gearing spreadsheet here:
[url]http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Effect_of_Changing[/url] ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Effect_of_Changing[/url])
Cheers,
Rob
Yes, seen the spreadsheet Rob, although due to the area where i live, i'll need to do a bit of experimenting with the gearing.
Being very close to Snowdonia and the brilliant sweepy roads hereabout, the standard gearing is probably ok, although i still find myself going for a seventh gear sometimes, if i'm having a decent thrashing session.
Cruising at 70-80mph on the motorway however, is a different matter, it just feels like the bike is revving too high at that speed, even though the rev-counter is only showing around 6-7k at that speed.
Maybe i've been riding twins for too long and forgotten how revvy the Jap multi's are?
The new chain and sprocket kit arrived this morning, just waiting for the 12mm output shaft nut and tab washer to turn up, then i can get them fitted, plus the fork dust covers i bought a few weeks ago, then take things from there.
I'll post on here any improvements (or not) that i find with the gearing mods.
G ; )
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Sounds like you're just not used to the inline 4 yet, although it won't get there in 6th you've got another 5000 revs on top!
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Sounds like you're just not used to the inline 4 yet, although it won't get there in 6th you've got another 5000 revs on top!
I know mate, it's some 25 years since i had the Z1R and the GS1000's, used to thrash them everywhere, although i was in my early 30's back then.
I'll be 60 next April and i'm no Kenny Roberts but i do enjoy howling the Fazer around the mountain roads here, i'm very happy with it but the oily biker that i was, just can't help wanting to tweak it a little bit more.
G ; )
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It's the little tweaks that make it your bike!
Have fun getting back in touch with your younger self!
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Phoned my "local" Yamaha dealer this morning, to see if the 12mm sprocket nut and tab washer i ordered a week ago had been sent out to me yet.
Unfortunately not, so i "might" have it by Monday!
So, do i fit the new chain and sprockets, that only took two days to arrive from a supplier on ebay, and then replace the nut whenever it arrives, or just wait until the nut arrives and fit the lot in one go?
I'm a bit pi$$ed to say the least, was hoping to go out for a spin on Sunday with the lads.
Maybe i should have asked one of you guys if the 12mm nut was available on ebay before i ordered it from the shop first?
G :\
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You can get it from Wemoto as that's where I obtained mine. Can't remember how long it took to arrive but it was only a few days at most
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All i can find on Wemoto is the original nut: http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer_sp/02-03/picture/sprocket_front_retaining_nut_kit_oem/ (http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer_sp/02-03/picture/sprocket_front_retaining_nut_kit_oem/)
Anyway, i took the front sprocket off this afternoon, had to use a short piece of scaffold tube on the socket bar and a bit of heat.
As expected, it went with a crack and this is what came off:
(http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t336/BluprintZmusic/fazer/9mmnut.jpg) (http://s513.photobucket.com/user/BluprintZmusic/media/fazer/9mmnut.jpg.html)
(http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t336/BluprintZmusic/fazer/countershaft.jpg) (http://s513.photobucket.com/user/BluprintZmusic/media/fazer/countershaft.jpg.html)
The nut is obviously goosed but the shaft seems ok, didn't have time to clean the crap off it, so i'll do that in the morning.
G ; )
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http://www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/yh-90891-10124/ (http://www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/yh-90891-10124/)
Bought it myself, so it's definitely the 12mm kit just in case anyone is uncertain
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[url]http://www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/yh-90891-10124/[/url] ([url]http://www.wemoto.com/parts/picture/yh-90891-10124/[/url])
Bought it myself, so it's definitely the 12mm kit just in case anyone is uncertain
Right you are Deadeye, noticed the small print at the bottom.
G ; )
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Went for 1 tooth extra on front and 1 less on rear.
made a difference of 500 revs at 70mph .
Much smoother cruising and I now get 60 / 65 mpg on our Highland empty roads,which are not slow.
Good move all round
could have gone for 2 less on rear I think but wasnt sure if the chain would be affected.
Acceleration ( for a normal person ) is just the same.
:)
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Got a phone call yesterday afternoon from the Yam dealers that i ordered the nut and washer from TEN DAYS AGO!!
They have posted it out and i should have it today, yippee!
Hopefully, the bike should be back on the road this afternoon.
G ; )
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Just got the nut and tab washer, obviously it's the 12mm one but as in the pic above of the old 9mm one, there's a shoulder of about 3mm which i assume locates on the plastic bit on the original Yam sprocket, to quieten things down i believe?
So, my question to those of you who have had to replace the old nut with the new one, what do you consider the best torque setting, after of course adding threadlock to the shaft threads?
I would rather take advice from someone who has done this than rely on the Haynes book of lies, to be honest.
G ; )
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Just got the nut and tab washer, obviously it's the 12mm one but as in the pic above of the old 9mm one, there's a shoulder of about 3mm which i assume locates on the plastic bit on the original Yam sprocket, to quieten things down i believe?
So, my question to those of you who have had to replace the old nut with the new one, what do you consider the best torque setting, after of course adding threadlock to the shaft threads?
I would rather take advice from someone who has done this than rely on the Haynes book of lies, to be honest.
G ; )
From memory i think the old one was 70Nm and the new one was a suggested 90Nm, but i personally had mine torqued at 80Nm.
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Pretty sure I put mine on at 90Nm after reading about the recommended upgrade - but then again I didn't use any threadlock
Haven't had any issues in the 4k miles I've done
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Ok guys, cheers for the info, i'll be gritting my teeth as i tighten it up, the shaft threads didn't look too clever really!
G ; )
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Ok guys, cheers for the info, i'll be gritting my teeth as i tighten it up, the shaft threads didn't look too clever really!
G ; )
It's because other people had said they had a bad feeling about pushing 90Nm that a few of us opted for 80Nm instead.
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Right then, the nut and tab-washer are fitted.....although, i took it to 70Nm and the torque wrench was clicking away.
The tab-washer and the sprocket were still very loose, so i took it to 90Nm and again, clickety click and the washer etc, were still rather loose.
So i thought sod it, keep going until the washer and sprocket were waggle free, which i did and folded the tab over and put everything back together again.
I'm assuming that the sprocket isn't supposed to be loose?, i'm thinking that the reason the torque wrench was clicking, was because the nut was threading the slightly damaged shaft and it was reaching the specified Nm due to this?
Oh well, time will tell i expect, i put threadlock on the shaft, it's got new chain and sprockets fitted, plus of course the new nut and washer, we'll see how things go.
It's gonna be a nervous ride, the next time i take her out.
G ; )
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Right then, the nut and tab-washer are fitted.....although, i took it to 70Nm and the torque wrench was clicking away.
The tab-washer and the sprocket were still very loose, so i took it to 90Nm and again, clickety click and the washer etc, were still rather loose.
So i thought sod it, keep going until the washer and sprocket were waggle free, which i did and folded the tab over and put everything back together again.
I'm assuming that the sprocket isn't supposed to be loose?, i'm thinking that the reason the torque wrench was clicking, was because the nut was threading the slightly damaged shaft and it was reaching the specified Nm due to this?
Oh well, time will tell i expect, i put threadlock on the shaft, it's got new chain and sprockets fitted, plus of course the new nut and washer, we'll see how things go.
It's gonna be a nervous ride, the next time i take her out.
G ; )
Still loose at 90Nm ?
Oooerr...... :look
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I've done my 'chain/sprocket/12mm nut' over 2 weeks ago.
- Torqued at 80 Nm.
- No thread lock but copper grease.
- No play on the sprocket.
Done about 400 miles since then and it seems fine so far. Also replaced the gasket.
Nut/washer from Yam dealer for 2.44, and gasket for 3.66 delivered within two days.
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Ok, I gotta say it - you're o/p shaft thread doesn't look good to me in the photo BlueprintZ...
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Gotta agree with you Nick, and also a tad worrying the nut had to be done up so tightly as well.
@freeware, i'm a big fan of copper grease, i use it a lot on my bike, but i'm surprised you used it on the front sprocket nut, i think i would rather prefer it seized on!
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If it were me, my first port of call would be to a good engineer to see if it could be built up with some kind of weld or something, then recut the thread, preferably with everything in situ. Maybe there's someone on this forum who could answer whether or not that's possible.
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Darrsi, I didn't want the nut to be siezed when it comes to sprocket fitting next time but I may be wrong... I'll check at near future if everything's right (tight) under the cover.
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Darrsi, I didn't want the nut to be siezed when it comes to sprocket fitting next time but I may be wrong... I'll check at near future if everything's right (tight) under the cover.
It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other mate.
It's a scenario that we shouldn't really have to be thinking about at all, but unfortunately we have to take things seriously because of what's happened to other peoples bikes in the past.
It looks nice and shiny though :D
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I agree the O/S thread looks bad but as i mentioned in my last post, i recon the fact that the torque wrench was clicking at 90 Nm, was probably because the new nut was cutting a thread into the shaft.
I do have access to a very good engineer/welder, although whether to go arc or mig, i will have to discuss with him.
To be honest, now that i have a new chain, sprockets and the 12mm nut on, i'm inclined to let him wend the nut on, as i few on here have done...i think?
I should get a few years out of the bike if i look after the chain but to say i'm rather gutted, is an understatement, i really was happy with the bike, until this shambles unfolded.
It's probably too late to go shouting at Yamaha for a new shaft to be fitted, although i might do, just to see if they will honour the fact that they have messed up with this issus.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
G ; (
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I agree the O/S thread looks bad but as i mentioned in my last post, i recon the fact that the torque wrench was clicking at 90 Nm, was probably because the new nut was cutting a thread into the shaft.
I do have access to a very good engineer/welder, although whether to go arc or mig, i will have to discuss with him.
To be honest, now that i have a new chain, sprockets and the 12mm nut on, i'm inclined to let him wend the nut on, as i few on here have done...i think?
I should get a few years out of the bike if i look after the chain but to say i'm rather gutted, is an understatement, i really was happy with the bike, until this shambles unfolded.
It's probably too late to go shouting at Yamaha for a new shaft to be fitted, although i might do, just to see if they will honour the fact that they have messed up with this issus.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
G ; (
Worth a try at the very least!
When you speak to Yamaha show them the service note number: SERVICE NOTE 2005-12A
"....Any FZS600 Fazers model (1998-2003), regardless of whether it still in warranty or has been serviced officially in the Dealer channel can be inspected at any official Dealer. Remove the existing nut and washer. Measure the drive shaft OD of the threaded part (micrometer or vernier caliper). If >= 17.5 mm - clean threads and fit a new washer & nut with threadlock. If < 17.5 mm - the drive shaft must be replaced. (This work could take between 1 day to 2 weeks depending on dealer workload)...."
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I'd whip it off and remove sprocket, clean all with wire brush and refit with thread lock, torque to 80 and see how you get on. Or whilst its all off check the nut runs up the shaft.
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I'd whip it off and remove sprocket, clean all with wire brush and refit with thread lock, torque to 80 and see how you get on. Or whilst its all off check the nut runs up the shaft.
He's already said it didn't feel tight at 90Nm.
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I agree the O/S thread looks bad but as i mentioned in my last post, i recon the fact that the torque wrench was clicking at 90 Nm, was probably because the new nut was cutting a thread into the shaft.
I do have access to a very good engineer/welder, although whether to go arc or mig, i will have to discuss with him.
To be honest, now that i have a new chain, sprockets and the 12mm nut on, i'm inclined to let him wend the nut on, as i few on here have done...i think?
I should get a few years out of the bike if i look after the chain but to say i'm rather gutted, is an understatement, i really was happy with the bike, until this shambles unfolded.
It's probably too late to go shouting at Yamaha for a new shaft to be fitted, although i might do, just to see if they will honour the fact that they have messed up with this issus.
Thanks for all the advice guys.
G ; (
Worth a try at the very least!
When you speak to Yamaha show them the service note number: SERVICE NOTE 2005-12A
"....Any FZS600 Fazers model (1998-2003), regardless of whether it still in warranty or has been serviced officially in the Dealer channel can be inspected at any official Dealer. Remove the existing nut and washer. Measure the drive shaft OD of the threaded part (micrometer or vernier caliper). If >= 17.5 mm - clean threads and fit a new washer & nut with threadlock. If < 17.5 mm - the drive shaft must be replaced. (This work could take between 1 day to 2 weeks depending on dealer workload)...."
Has to be best first option - a new o/p shaft fitted for free? You couldn't turn that down if they'll do it.
2nd option, I'd look at the weld and recut solution - hopefully it could solve the issue on a permanent basis, whereas welding on the sprocket nut maybe will just cause headaches later.
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I'd whip it off and remove sprocket, clean all with wire brush and refit with thread lock, torque to 80 and see how you get on. Or whilst its all off check the nut runs up the shaft.
He's already said it didn't feel tight at 90Nm.
Exactly. Something isn't right hence the need to inspect and clean. I wouldn't be riding around on possible cross threaded/ damaged thread etc etc. Would you?
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I'd whip it off and remove sprocket, clean all with wire brush and refit with thread lock, torque to 80 and see how you get on. Or whilst its all off check the nut runs up the shaft.
He's already said it didn't feel tight at 90Nm.
Exactly. Something isn't right hence the need to inspect and clean. I wouldn't be riding around on possible cross threaded/ damaged thread etc etc. Would you?
Judging by the photo', the shaft thread looks more than ropey to me anyway.
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I'd whip it off and remove sprocket, clean all with wire brush and refit with thread lock, torque to 80 and see how you get on. Or whilst its all off check the nut runs up the shaft.
He's already said it didn't feel tight at 90Nm.
Exactly. Something isn't right hence the need to inspect and clean. I wouldn't be riding around on possible cross threaded/ damaged thread etc etc. Would you?
Judging by the photo', the shaft thread looks more than ropey to me anyway.
Its not worth chancing it at all.
Further work required.
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I suppose i'll contact Yamaha and see what sort of a response i get from them.
The thing that worries me at the mo', is that i've already tried to fix the problem, by buying and fitting the new 12mm nut, knowing that the O/S is damaged.
Yamaha could well say that i should have left it alone, once i removed the old nut and saw the damaged shaft, then contacted them about the freebie repair!
Anyway, i'll give them a shout and see what happens.
Thanks guys.
G ; )
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If your happy its tight and fitting flush then you could always get a couple of tack welds on the nut to the shaft to make sure. At the end of the day you wanna be riding don't ya, if you don't get no joy with yamaha then at least you can be back on the road. Just inspect it every now and then.
I'm a big believer in not spending much on bikes and repairs as I'd rather spend my money on petrol and riding.
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The shaft looks quite shiney in the pic so I'd guess the nut mangled the threads as it was coming off. Was the nut quite stiff as it was coming off? I'd did mine recently and I was bricking it taking the nut off. It's definitely the weak point of the fazer.
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This is what I did to solve my problem http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=43 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=43) and here http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,4546.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,4546.0.html) to see what I had to do to get Yamaha to assist me in repairing the problem.
I now have everthing (gaskets, seals, bearing and shaft) I require to strip the engine and replace the shaft supplied by Yamaha for half price on my bike which then had almost 72000 miles on it.
It now has 5500 miles since I repaired it my way with a circlip, washer and an allen bolt and it is still holding.
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Wonder if you could re-thread the bugger and make it a bit cleaner to stick the nut on to with a load of locktite,,,
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to use an old Quote "Been there, done that, wore the T-shirt".
Nothing worked until I put a circlip outside the Nut then a washer and the allen bolt.
The shaft is case hardened and drilling and tapping the end was not to difficult once you took it slow and gently getting through the case hardening.
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Gotta agree with you Nick, and also a tad worrying the nut had to be done up so tightly as well.
@freeware, i'm a big fan of copper grease, i use it a lot on my bike, but i'm surprised you used it on the front sprocket nut, i think i would rather prefer it seized on!
I couldn't fall asleep since then... :) Thanks!
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Update on my situation: Fitted new chain and sprockets, been for a few long, fast rides and the 12mm nut is still ok.
I've ordered a pair of new Bridgestone tyres and a set of carb - head inlet rubbers, then it's off to the dyno man to have everything set up properly.
I'll post the results of the dyno test when i get them.
G ; )
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bump
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A lot of people seem to be asking `should I do this` and ` how do I` etc, Is there a step by step thread on here anywhere that people can follow if they want to change the sprocket nut?
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Just fitted 12mm nut on my shaft adding the suggested loctite. tightened to the 70nm which seemed a bit too quick and easy to reach so gave it an extra yank. I was expecting the nut face to end up flush with the shaft end but instead it sits proud of the shaft end. Does this sound right?
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Depends how much it stands proud. The 12mm nut is usually just proud of the shaft by between half to one millimetre. i.e. about the depth of the chamfer on the nut.
Incidentally when Yamaha introduced us to the 12mm nut they also increased the torque to 90 Nm.
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cheers, I'll take cover off again tomorrow and torque it up. May be take a pic too, knowing how pics are liked lol