old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: simonm on 06 July 2013, 11:42:42 pm
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Just curious.
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why both having a clutch if we're not meant to use it ?
If i was racing then I can understand but for road use pointless just to make you feel like cal crutchlow or max biaggi
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why both having a clutch if we're not meant to use it ?
If i was racing then I can understand but for road use pointless just to make you feel like cal crutchlow or max biaggi
It's not pointless, quite nice to do heading down a long slip road onto a motorway.
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I find it much easier and smoother to use clutchless shifting so I basically do it all the time from 3rd up. Occasionally I'll do it from 2nd to 3rd but it depends on the situation.
why both having a clutch if we're not meant to use it ?
If i was racing then I can understand but for road use pointless just to make you feel like cal crutchlow or max biaggi
You still need to use the clutch when coming back down the gears, never clutchless downshift
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Pillions thank you for doing clutchless up changes as well, much smoother for them
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Smooth ==Agreed
When you get it right its also bloody quick up through the gears, slips in beautiful and smooth,,vrrrrm,vrrrrrmmm,vrrrmm,,, see
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When your in traffic and you lay your elbow on the tank, its easier to just change up without the clutch (or should that be lazier).
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A friend is a mechanic and a racer. He says:
"Just go on doing clutchless upshifts - more work for me. :) You can do it on the racetrack, but doing it in the street just needlesly damages gear teeth."
I still do it - 30k kilometres - still no problems with the gear shifter. Hope I haven't cursed myself. I only sometimes use clutch from 1st into 2nd. But not always.
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Sometimes when I'm scratching my bum or picking my nose I'll do a clutchess upshift but it's not a regular occurance
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A friend is a mechanic and a racer. He says:
"Just go on doing clutchless upshifts - more work for me. :) You can do it on the racetrack, but doing it in the street just needlesly damages gear teeth."
I still do it - 30k kilometres - still no problems with the gear shifter. Hope I haven't cursed myself. I only sometimes use clutch from 1st into 2nd. But not always.
as far as I understand bike gearboxes which isn't very far, they are constant mesh so the gear teeth are always meshed and they slide along the shafts using the dogs and splines to determine the drive? Although a triumph 21 I used for tracking did strip the first gear by clutchless starts after the clutch had snapped?
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I've been doing cluchless shifts for years, never damaged a gearbox yet!
If you do it properly it doesn't do it any harm, its smoother for you and your pillion, and less wear on tour clutch! :o
Just ask the London couriers with millions of miles on their bikes, they'll tell you the same thing.
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I've been doing cluchless shifts for years, never damaged a gearbox yet!
If you do it properly it doesn't do it any harm, its smoother for you and your pillion, and less wear on tour clutch! :o
Just ask the London couriers with millions of miles on their bikes, they'll tell you the same thing.
London couriers drive on the wrong side of the road! Unless left side is the right side, which it is not, is it? :)
I've never had clutch problems so far, just telling what I've heard from a more experienced rider. Didn't change my riding though, nor do I take it all for granted, even from the elders.
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Virtually all the time. As long as you do it smoothly I can't see how it can be any worse for the gearbox than using the clutch.
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You can believe what you want, but its been covered many times, and by many different professional people, not just 'the elders'.
If you slam ot into gear over and over again, of course it'll damage the gearbox, but if you do it properly, it won't do it any harm, even if you do ride on the other side of the road :o
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You can believe what you want, but its been covered many times, and by many different professional people, not just 'the elders'.
If you slam ot into gear over and over again, of course it'll damage the gearbox, but if you do it properly, it won't do it any harm, even if you do ride on the other side of the road :o
I believe so. I also think that at higher revs, clutchless upshifts are evene less damaging to the clutch plates than shifts using the clutch.
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I always use the clutch, for peace of mind.
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I learnt to do this on the Fazer and eventually bent the selecting fork because I messed it up quite a bit. It was cheaper to buy an engine and have it fitted than fix the gearbox.
However, once you know how to do it, it doesn't seem to do any damage. There's a knack to it.
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Changing gear badly with a clutch will screw a gearbox up as quickly as without. But Mr Yam gave me one so I'll use it in the main.
Buy a Honda they haven't got gear levers anymore rofl
But never, ever go down the gears without a clutch
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I never purposely do this, but often find myself touching the clutch lever so little, there's no way I'm actually using the clutch. Always really smooth changes when this happens.
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You can believe what you want, but its been covered many times, and by many different professional people, not just 'the elders'.
If you slam ot into gear over and over again, of course it'll damage the gearbox, but if you do it properly, it won't do it any harm, even if you do ride on the other side of the road :o
Well obviously. In the same way that doing it badly with the cluch will end up lunching the clutch plates eventually.
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You mean some folks don't?
Clutch is for 1st gear, sometimes 2nd to 3rd in traffic, and on it down changes only.
I guess it's like lots of folks don't know how to steer their bike (true but frightening) and loads of folks are fathing aboot screwing up gear changes with the clutch when you don't need to touch it. Dear of dear!
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...on the topic of "smooth" changes, how about "blipping" on downshifts? I've tried it a few times but can never get it right, I'm sure the missus would appreciate it though.
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...on the topic of "smooth" changes, how about "blipping" on downshifts? I've tried it a few times but can never get it right, I'm sure the missus would appreciate it though.
Practice until you get it right. Small 4 cylinder Fazer is forgiving, but a single cylinder bike could lock the rear wheel when downshifting without blipping (unless smooth with clutch).
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...on the topic of "smooth" changes, how about "blipping" on downshifts? I've tried it a few times but can never get it right, I'm sure the missus would appreciate it though.
Yup, I do this all the time as well :)
Took a bit of getting used to initially, but I do it without thinking now. Occasionally I'll get it wrong a little, but most of the time its fine and is sooo much smoother when coming down the gears
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Tried it once, didn't like it..... ( Bit like sex :D ) Mate of mines a retired bike copper, does it all the time. Been a pillion on his bike and it was as smooth as you like. Not for me though, just can;t get the knack so I stick with the clutch. Horses for courses I think.
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For less experienced riders having the clutch is a good start! Clutchless changes can be done smoothly quickly & without any internal engine damage-but as they say "Practice makes Perfect". It also helps if you can visualise what all the various components are doing inside the motor/gearbox-encourages mechanical sympathy. No reason why you cant learn to front brake & downchange blipping the throttle simultaneously.
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Its quite a good feeling when you master it, using the front brake at the same time takes a bit of getting used to. I understand why a lot of riders only use one or two fingers for braking now and why they fit shortened levers... definitely on my to-do list :D
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Had to do 200 miles without a clutch when my beemer broke down in wales - clutchless changes are easy just get the revs right and gently apply pressure on the lever till it snicks in - its the stopping/starting without one thats the challenge!
However my preference is to use the clutch as Mr Bike Designer intended.
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Had to do 200 miles without a clutch when my beemer broke down in wales - clutchless changes are easy just get the revs right and gently apply pressure on the lever till it snicks in - its the stopping/starting without one thats the challenge!
However my preference is to use the clutch as Mr Bike Designer intended.
I thought you were supposed to roll off the throttle while changing so that the gears are not under engine load ?
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Yes, you want the revs to be about where they would be for a normal change (or slightly higher) and let off, then re-engage. tbh though I was a bit caveman in my approach being as it was out of necessity rather than choice.
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Had to do 200 miles without a clutch when my beemer broke down in wales - clutchless changes are easy just get the revs right and gently apply pressure on the lever till it snicks in - its the stopping/starting without one thats the challenge!
However my preference is to use the clutch as Mr Bike Designer intended.
I thought you were supposed to roll off the throttle while changing so that the gears are not under engine load ?
Yup, that's correct :)
Completely different technique required when coming down the box and its much more difficult
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the answer to a smooth clutchless gearchange up and down the box is to match engine speed to road speed ;) this is why blipping helps on down shifts.....try it going down the box by very gently pressing down on the lever whilst the revs drop on slowing down and when the speeds are matched it will just slip into gear....thats why practice helps and also getting to know the bike :D
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have a look at this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdrUj1KqNRI&list=SPC062163835B4F220&index=6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdrUj1KqNRI&list=SPC062163835B4F220&index=6)
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
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he has done a better one.
will see if i can find it.
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
I found it virtually impossible until I had correctly adjusted my gear selector. Just a light pressure upward on the gear selector,roll off the throttle, the gear will slip in and then on the throttle again. It's a sweet feelin
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
I found it virtually impossible until I had correctly adjusted my gear selector. Just a light pressure upward on the gear selector,roll off the throttle, the gear will slip in and then on the throttle again. It's a sweet feelin
sure is !
have found a false neutral a couple of times though which is a bit embarrasing! :o
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
I found it virtually impossible until I had correctly adjusted my gear selector. Just a light pressure upward on the gear selector,roll off the throttle, the gear will slip in and then on the throttle again. It's a sweet feelin
sure is !
have found a false neutral a couple of times though which is a bit embarrasing! :o
I've found myself using the clutch for 1-2 cos it's so clunky I only really clutchless going upward for 3,4,5 &6
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
I found it virtually impossible until I had correctly adjusted my gear selector. Just a light pressure upward on the gear selector,roll off the throttle, the gear will slip in and then on the throttle again. It's a sweet feelin
sure is !
have found a false neutral a couple of times though which is a bit embarrasing! :o
I've found myself using the clutch for 1-2 cos it's so clunky I only really clutchless going upward for 3,4,5 &6
ditto.
if you have a look at the other gearchanging vids russ (roadcraft nottingham) has done, they are quite helpful as a prelude to clutchless changing.
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
I found it virtually impossible until I had correctly adjusted my gear selector. Just a light pressure upward on the gear selector,roll off the throttle, the gear will slip in and then on the throttle again. It's a sweet feelin
sure is !
have found a false neutral a couple of times though which is a bit embarrasing! :o
I've found myself using the clutch for 1-2 cos it's so clunky I only really clutchless going upward for 3,4,5 &6
Just in case; a false neutral is finding a space between two gears (that aren't 1st or 2nd) where neither is engaged
I've had this happen once on my old bike where I went to go from 5th to 6th and ended up not being in any gear at all, makes a nice crunch when you finally get it in :P
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Useful little vid. Maybe I'll have another go :D
I found it virtually impossible until I had correctly adjusted my gear selector. Just a light pressure upward on the gear selector,roll off the throttle, the gear will slip in and then on the throttle again. It's a sweet feelin
sure is !
have found a false neutral a couple of times though which is a bit embarrasing! :o
I've found myself using the clutch for 1-2 cos it's so clunky I only really clutchless going upward for 3,4,5 &6
Just in case; a false neutral is finding a space between two gears (that aren't 1st or 2nd) where neither is engaged
I've had this happen once on my old bike where I went to go from 5th to 6th and ended up not being in any gear at all, makes a nice crunch when you finally get it in :P
Aaah thank you. I thought that was called missing a gear. I found false neutrals until I adjusted the gear selector then :lol
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Well it basically is missing a gear, but you are essentially in a no-mans land for gears :P
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...on the topic of "smooth" changes, how about "blipping" on downshifts? I've tried it a few times but can never get it right, I'm sure the missus would appreciate it though.
I always do it makes it so smooth …………………
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I always use the clutch for 1 to 2 and sometimes 2 to 3 depending on the situation and always use it for coming down the gears again, been trying the blip the throttle on the downshifts while braking, getting there but it's not easy! haha.
I find the clutchless upshifts are really easy to get super smooth and as the others have said it's nicer for pillions, plus there's less helmet banging.. ooer! haha! :lol
As for it damaging the gearbox then only if you're crunching it and not being smooth, light pressure on the gear lever, back off the throttle and it slips in no problem.. :o :lol
Chris