old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: simonm on 16 May 2013, 09:37:58 pm
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I went out in the dry and sun, came back in the dark and wet. First time I've ever ridden in the wet and I'm wearing leathers...nice. So I spent the 20 minute ride home on the wet roads with rain coming down, petrified and taking each slow corner at about 5mph. When I first started on the wet roads the rear end felt all floaty (technical term alert), I thought the rear tyre was running flat (it felt kinda squishy). Then accelerating it felt like I was wheel spinning.
Time for a glass of wine to settle the nerves. God only knows how couriers, commuters and racers cope with it.
I'm glad I did it, I feel like I might possibly be able to do it again in the future if I absolutely had to.
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Out of interest, what tyre do you have on the rear? I've ridden in some downpours before and I've never felt the rear misbehave that much. I obviously ride appropriately for the conditions but not so much that I'm crawling along at a snails pace
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But you still did it simon :thumbup
You know what ive barely ridden in the rain but i think you can probably easily ride at about 2/3 usual throttle & cornering, a few more times in the rain & you'll naturally speed up & relax a bit.
Im taking my bike into the garage for new tyres tomorrow morning & looking at the weather forecast its gonna be pissing rain on my way home & ill be on Brand new yet to be scrubbed front & back tyres & further still they are tyres best suited for dry conditions :eek .
So I've got a plan....im just gonna act normally, albeit as if i was on my bike test ie no unnecessary throttle grabs, nice & smoothe.ill report back but if i can manage it with brand new tyres then it kinda shows how ok wet weather is.
My sisters ex was so petrified about scrubbing in new tyres that he asked my dad to scrub them in for him, foc that!!!! :b
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Out of interest, what tyre do you have on the rear? I've ridden in some downpours before and I've never felt the rear misbehave that much. I obviously ride appropriately for the conditions but not so much that I'm crawling along at a snails pace
I think they're ancient bt57's but they have plenty of tread on them. I have no idea if they're squared off or anything.
http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/battlax/bt57.html (http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/battlax/bt57.html)
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After riding a while in bad weather you'll totally understand why there is so much talk about tyres that perform well in wet conditions.
Some tyres completely outperform others in the wet, and if you are like me and ride all year round, with the bike being my only transport, then you can appreciate that sliding even just a bit is not an option that i want.
This is the whole reason i've stuck with the same tyre combo time and again, which are different brands front and rear, because i have confidence in them when it's raining.
You lose that confidence and it will spoil riding the bike and make you a nervous wreck, clinging on for dear life, and going round bends upright at 10mph. :thumbdown
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Us couriers (the intelligent ones that is) tend to wear and or carry the right gear so we're dry and comfortable (Rukka for me!)
I cannot rate Michelin road pilot 3 tyres highly enough, they really do what it says on the tin, great in the wet and brilliant mileage, its not just sales gumpf!
If anyone's concerned about not having tyres scrubbed in for the weather then change one on one day then the other next week when the other is scrubbed in, not both at the same time, its gonna be the same price!
My personal advice for riding in the wet- The funky chicken!
It's the best advice I ever read and I pass it on to everyone, give it a go in the dry, you're more relaxed in the dry anyway but still give it a try, but make a more conscious effort in the wet,
On approach to corner make sure you are at a comfortable speed for the severity of the corner (no braking mid corner in the wet!) and flap your elbows, if they don't flap easily you're too tense, its all about relaxing, which we've probably heard many times but mentally its difficult to do, flapping your arms a little helps to tell your brain that your body is relaxed.
when you've done it a few times and feel comfortable give the inner elbow a teeny weeny little wiggle mid corner to remind yourself your relaxed.
Going back to dry weather- want to be able to corner a little faster? We all hear about looking where you're going target fixation etc etc, you think 'I do that though' - make a point to Physically turn your head to look through the corner, not just moving your eyes. Ever been a little too fast into the corner and your arse starts twitching like a bunny rabbits nose?- wiggle the inner turn elbow and physically turn your head, you WILL make the corner, the bike is more capable than you, you'll be fine!
That's me done anyway!
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@Punkstig, i would've said there's a bit of The Birdie Song in there, as well as the Funky Chicken! :lol
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It would be rude of me not to try the funky chicken...
"What you doin???"
"Eh...the funky chicken"....
"Who tought you that???"........
"Ehhh.......Punkstig!!!"..................
"Ah....ok.....laters.......dont call me!".... :lol
Cheers punkstig ill try it tomorrow jus for the crack. 8)
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I'm awaiting the 'OMG Funky fuckin chicken works' and the obligatory 'PunkStig is a leg-end' titles in the general section tomorrow chaps, lol
Tbh, because its a fun thing in your head its easier to remember!
I do stupid miles but still do this to make me feel comfortable out there!
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I also sing 'East bound and down' (smokey and the bandit theme) to myself on long journeys but that's for a completely different post!
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I also sing 'East bound and down' (smokey and the bandit theme) to myself on long journeys but that's for a completely different post!
:stop :stop :stop :stop :stop :stop :stop
:D
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Just imaginin u goin round a corner in the wet @ 5mph flappin ur arms up and down while shittin urself Si hahaha
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Just imaginin u goin round a corner in the wet @ 5mph flappin ur arms up and down while shittin urself Si hahaha
Yah, frickin hifuckinlarious. :lol. I bet I was too.
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HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Awsome comments with some very great advice Punkstig.
Can't wait to hear the east bound and down story :lol
For me, going out on a ride in the sun and then returning home in the pi$$ing rain can be quite a common occurance. making sure your gear is good and waterproof helps to keep you dry, warm and relaxed. I constatly talk out loud to myself when I feel I'm in a situation where I might tense up as it helps me to stay relaxed. I just talk about looking where I want to go, stay relaxed, the bike can do more than me so have confidence in the tyres, throttle on slowly as you're making the turn etc etc
Chris
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Anyways... If u wanna corner without ur pants fillin up u shud ask Merv the Swerv aka our very own christoT ;-)
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I find the whole thing a lot easier when I concentrate on the riding rather than the physics of having a handwriting sized contact area between me and a messy ending ;)
e just given Jack a bottle feed for the night and he looked at me and gave me a beaming smile. At the moment anything could happen and I'd still be ecstatically happy (if that's even a word).
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It certainly is a word ^^
The contact patch may seem crazy but its how you use it that counts ;) Don't worry simon, you'll get better the more you ride and its good to push your boundaries - pretty sure I've developed better as a rider being out with the LoFo's as the riding gets a bit crazy at times but helps you to understand the limits of your machine better. I noticed this more when I went out solo the other day, doing things without thinking that I usually had to really concentrate on :)
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Anyways... If u wanna corner without ur pants fillin up u shud ask Merv the Swerv aka our very own christoT ;-)
God, if I get this amount of banter for my "normal" riding, I hope to God I never stick it in a hedge - I'd never hear the end of it!! :lol :lol
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I also sing 'East bound and down' (smokey and the bandit theme) to myself on long journeys but that's for a completely different post!
I sing that one when I'm doing a long ride too! (i used to be a HGV driver) so don't worry punkstig, there are a couple more of us oddballs out there :o:D::)
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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I cannot rate Michelin road pilot 3 tyres highly enough, they really do what it says on the tin, great in the wet and brilliant mileage, its not just sales gumpf!
- me too - the best tyres I've used and yet on the the review sites they get quite an average review - I guess tyres are just a personal thing.
I agree about relaxing ( not sure about the chicken) - just keping it steady with a smoth throtle roll on through the corner , you more likely to get all out of shape tensing up and chopping the throttle - keeping the gas steadily going on will increase the preasure on your back tyre and maintain your contact patch.
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Being new to the game, I tend to take corners as upright and steady as possible - I keep telling myself that it IS slow, but speed will come with experience. Two tips I read somewhere which I try and use are:
1) Get your speed down before the turn in, and then gently turn the throttle back on (not accelerating, just so the tyre is still driving) for the corner. Apparently this 'positive throttle' gets you more grip than just free wheeling it round the bend.
2) Drive some weight on the opposite peg and lean off. So for a left hander, right foot bears the weight on the peg, and lean off the left. This keeps the bike more upright and the peg trick keeps your centre of gravity low (rather than if all your weight was on your backside on the seat).
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Wet riding brings a few issues, esp for those new to it.
My advice:
Make sure your tyres are at the right pressure (depending on load, it'll be something like 33F / 36R normal, or 36F / 42R loaded or two-up): some people reckon you should drop pressures (logic being "it increases the contact patch") - many newbies do fall for this (inexperience). If your tyres aren't right, nothing else will be.
Relax. If you're not relaxed, you'll end up "fighting" with the bike. I generally let the bike "do it's own thing", if that makes sense.
Decent kit: nowt saps your concentration like being cold and wet.
Finally: keep going out in the wet - couriers cope with it, because they're always out in it and thus get better at wet riding (practice makes perfect). There's no substitute for road miles.
FWIW, my bike is on Battlax BT020's atm, and never moved a millimetre in the wet. The back is due replacement in the next 500 miles or so due to squaring with a Conti Road Attack 2 being lined up as my (experimental) choice of rubber.
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My issue is that in the wet anything other than completely vertical means potential slip and that's a bit too scary for me. I definitely want to go out in the wet but I either need more experience or training. I talk about training a lot but then I'm tight fisted about spending the mulah.
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In the wet smoothness is the key. You 'can' ride at 3/4 speed, but you must be smooth on the inputs. And don't rise like your on ice, stay loose and enjoy the great British weather ::)
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I have to admit the sound of the rain on the lid was absolute bliss.
:b :thumbup
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I have to admit the sound of the rain on the lid was absolute bliss.
:b :thumbup
Not when it's misted up both your visor and your specs! When that happens, foc knows where you're going! :lol
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I have to admit the sound of the rain on the lid was absolute bliss.
:b :thumbup
Not when it's misted up both your visor and your specs! When that happens, foc knows where you're going! :lol
Pinlock and nikwax visorproof seem to do okay for me. I tried to mist up my caberg duke on purpose (as a test) and I couldn't do it.
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I use these, they're brilliant: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=visor+anti+fog+prospeed&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=visor+anti+fog+progrip&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=visor+anti+fog+prospeed&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=visor+anti+fog+progrip&_sacat=0)
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Pinlock is an absolute necessity for wet weather riding, and Mr.sheen polish on the outside just before you set off certainly helps.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Just got a text from my mate who's been living in Germany for 3 years, and has hardly ridden his Fazer whilst over there (it's his first bike).
He's bringing the bike back over and he's 160 miles into a 290 mile journey to Calais and he says it's absolutely tanking it down with rain, then he'll have the journey from Dover to North London, the poor sod :'(
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Oh dear, hope he makes it back ok. It makes for a better story in the pub later if it rains all the way or your tent blows away or you end up in a knife fight with a monkey... maybe scratch the last one :lol
Chris
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Just got a text from my mate who's been living in Germany for 3 years, and has hardly ridden his Fazer whilst over there (it's his first bike).
He's bringing the bike back over and he's 160 miles into a 290 mile journey to Calais and he says it's absolutely tanking it down with rain, then he'll have the journey from Dover to North London, the poor sod :'(
I hope his textiles are in good condition. Yesterday it was 50/50 which worried me the most; falling off or getting soaked through.
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Just got a text from my mate who's been living in Germany for 3 years, and has hardly ridden his Fazer whilst over there (it's his first bike).
He's bringing the bike back over and he's 160 miles into a 290 mile journey to Calais and he says it's absolutely tanking it down with rain, then he'll have the journey from Dover to North London, the poor sod :'(
I hope his textiles are in good condition. Yesterday it was 50/50 which worried me the most; falling off or getting soaked through.
He hardly used the bike all the time he was there, but he has all the clothing so he should be okay.
I gave him a Vee Wipe about a year ago so hopefully he's using that this time?
When he bought the bike his first main ride was to Germany, and it pissed down on him then as well. :(
It wasn't the ideal introduction to biking, but looking on the bright side, it can only get better for him! :)
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Just got a text from my mate who's been living in Germany for 3 years, and has hardly ridden his Fazer whilst over there (it's his first bike).
He's bringing the bike back over and he's 160 miles into a 290 mile journey to Calais and he says it's absolutely tanking it down with rain, then he'll have the journey from Dover to North London, the poor sod :'(
I hope his textiles are in good condition. Yesterday it was 50/50 which worried me the most; falling off or getting soaked through.
He hardly used the bike all the time he was there, but he has all the clothing so he should be okay.
I gave him a Vee Wipe about a year ago so hopefully he's using that this time?
When he bought the bike his first main ride was to Germany, and it pissed down on him then as well. :(
It wasn't the ideal introduction to biking, but looking on the bright side, it can only get better for him! :)
Er....
That's what I thought after 4 hrs in torrential rain on French motorways on my 125, and all my gear leaked.
Then I did 4 hrs and 100 miles on the Fazer through driving snow, and all my gear leaked again! The snow was MUCH worse. Colder, worse visibilty, and the INSIDE of my glasses fogged up. Appropriately, I was singing "Bat out of hell" to keep my spirits up on the last stretch up the A1. Appropriately, as I was blind as one!!
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Just got a text from my mate who's been living in Germany for 3 years, and has hardly ridden his Fazer whilst over there (it's his first bike).
He's bringing the bike back over and he's 160 miles into a 290 mile journey to Calais and he says it's absolutely tanking it down with rain, then he'll have the journey from Dover to North London, the poor sod :'(
I hope his textiles are in good condition. Yesterday it was 50/50 which worried me the most; falling off or getting soaked through.
He hardly used the bike all the time he was there, but he has all the clothing so he should be okay.
I gave him a Vee Wipe about a year ago so hopefully he's using that this time?
When he bought the bike his first main ride was to Germany, and it pissed down on him then as well. :(
It wasn't the ideal introduction to biking, but looking on the bright side, it can only get better for him! :)
Er....
That's what I thought after 4 hrs in torrential rain on French motorways on my 125, and all my gear leaked.
Then I did 4 hrs and 100 miles on the Fazer through driving snow, and all my gear leaked again! The snow was MUCH worse. Colder, worse visibilty, and the INSIDE of my glasses fogged up. Appropriately, I was singing "Bat out of hell" to keep my spirits up on the last stretch up the A1. Appropriately, as I was blind as one!!
I must confess, i don't miss the steamy glasses scenario, i had my eyes lasered years ago to combat that one, best decision ever.
I remember fog being particularly bad as well. Fog inside your glasses, ouside your glasses, inside the lid and fog outside too.
Game over basically! :groan
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/\ one of the reasons I got my eyes zapped too, that and not being able to look through them when at an odd junction, plus not being able to 'glance' at the clocks etc etc.
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you are going to hit rain , fog , hail at some time on your journies regardless what the bastard weather man says ( weather girls prettier so carefull not to fall prey to that also ) ... gald you got in there and glad you made it but .. try hail on the M5 and think its smart not to bother with waterproofs as its sunny arrrr ... cold nuts comes to mind ... meanwhile GF on back was pre waterproofed ...not a lot you can do when on the move :rolleyes
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you are going to hit rain , fog , hail at some time on your journies regardless what the bastard weather man says ( weather girls prettier so carefull not to fall prey to that also ) ... gald you got in there and glad you made it but .. try hail on the M5 and think its smart not to bother with waterproofs as its sunny arrrr ... cold nuts comes to mind ... meanwhile GF on back was pre waterproofed ...not a lot you can do when on the move :rolleyes
Ha ha, yes, hailstones are probably the most fun of all :lol
I mean, what idiot sits down when getting pelted by iced marbles, then tries riding over them? :lol
It sounds funny, but it really isn't.......
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Out of interest, what tyre do you have on the rear? I've ridden in some downpours before and I've never felt the rear misbehave that much. I obviously ride appropriately for the conditions but not so much that I'm crawling along at a snails pace
After some investigation I think these may be past it ?
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I have no idea what the hell the samsung galaxy s3 does to screw up picture rotation, it must be some arcane mix of modifying the exif tag and the picture too. This is the right way up on my phone...
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What are we looking at exactly?
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What are we looking at exactly?
I think it's the date of manufacture but I've been known to be incorrect on more than one occasion.
The tyres have plenty of tread but as I've said before it was a 12 year old bike which had done 5k miles, I suspect it's still on the same tyres from New.
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There's no visible cracks or anything in the photo's though.
They just may not be that good in the wet, compared to later tyres?
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That’s not the age of the tyre; it will be 4 numbers together, the first two are the week and second two are the year. If it’s a pre 00 tyre it will only have 3 numbers.
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There's no visible cracks or anything in the photo's though.
They just may not be that good in the wet, compared to later tyres?
I have very little riding experience and don't know what to expect from tyres or what result any changes would make. I have read that tyres over 4 years old are probably a bit old and wondered if, in that case, 12 year old tyres would be as hard as an old school eraser.
The tyres are in good condition with micro fractures in the tyre but no substantial wear and tear.
I was considering getting some BT23's or Roadpilot 3's. I'll send Bigsteve a message to ask if he can help inform as we talked about it at the Birm meet a while back.
You said you run a mixed pair, please can you spill the beans on your combo ?
Cheers
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That’s not the age of the tyre; it will be 4 numbers together, the first two are the week and second two are the year. If it’s a pre 00 tyre it will only have 3 numbers.
Sorry , is this right ?
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Use your thumb nail to dig into the tyre, a decent fresh tyre will feel more like chewing gum than an old tyre that will feel more like plasticky leather if that makes sense?
My suggestion- ditch them, and do it sooner rather than later,
No, tyres aren't cheap, but cheaper than binning the bike!
I keep saying it - pilot road 3's ftw, ( but tyres are massively subjective to personal 'feel')
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There's no visible cracks or anything in the photo's though.
They just may not be that good in the wet, compared to later tyres?
I have very little riding experience and don't know what to expect from tyres or what result any changes would make. I have read that tyres over 4 years old are probably a bit old and wondered if, in that case, 12 year old tyres would be as hard as an old school eraser.
The tyres are in good condition with micro fractures in the tyre but no substantial wear and tear.
I was considering getting some BT23's or Roadpilot 3's. I'll send Bigsteve a message to ask if he can help inform as we talked about it at the Birm meet a while back.
You said you run a mixed pair, please can you spill the beans on your combo ?
Cheers
For the last few years i've always had a Metzeler M1(discontinued now i think?) up front and a Bridgestone BT021 on the rear, and they have served me extremely well in the dry and much more importantly in the wet too.
But then my bike is mainly used for commuting so they work brilliant for me, but i believe Punkstig is a courier so i can only imagine his style of riding is a tad different from mine ( :lol ) and he will also do a hell of a lot more mileage in constant shitty weather, so if he says the Pilots are the real deal then i have absolutely no reason to disbelieve him!!
The only thing i will say is if you're gonna pay more money for the top range of tyres then be prepared to stick with them, because if you decide you're a bit short of cash one day when you're in need of new tyres and you decide to save a few quid by downgrading then you will be bitterly disappointed!
Some tyres are more expensive for a reason, they simply do the job better.
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I have to add that Michelin have massively shot themselves in the foot!
Why?
The road pilot 3 is absolutely perfect for a 600 (I also had 2 on my srad 750, increased pistons, gas flowed head and race cams!) the grip truly is very very good, it'll probably show its limitations on a track on a 750 and above being absolutely hooned, but for us fazerers its massively capable for our power output, not only that but I got 16000 out of the rear on the srad, and I do not hang about when the roads permit it! (I had 20000 out of the front!)
The price per tyre- you will not find another tyre that grippy that'll do that mileage,
So, overall, they cost a little extra to start, but £'s per mile x grip = nothing else is comparable in my experience!
Now, that brings me to throw a spanner in the works- I know there's already been conversations on here about tyres developed and matched to one another to attain maximum grip but for my riding style I put a sportier stickier tyre on the front, I was on pilot power 2’s which the feel from was just beautiful, but they don't come in our 110's, I'm currently looking at a front wheel conversion to a 3.5" rim because I liked them soooo much!
But (again) for your riding experience stick with the pr3's as a pair, they are way more capable than needs be on our roads and would only limit you on track if you was in the fast group!
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" I definitely want to go out in the wet but I either need more experience or training. I talk about training a lot but then I'm tight fisted about spending the mulah."
It's a catch-22 here: you want to go out in the wet but need the experience - but you won't get the experience if you don't go out in it.
One piece of advice I got from a mate at work (with 30+ years exp on bikes): "It isn't wet roads, or diesel spills, or daft car drivers that cause accidents; it's not knowing how to handle them that's the problem".
I got caught in snow last year on the A9 Perth - Inverness road at stupid o'clock in the morning (effectively in the middle of nowhere), which left me with the choice of a) a long run back to Perth or b) press on to Inverness with a fair distance to go. I decided to press on northwards. Can't say it were fun, but with some care, I made it up without incident (indeed, the bike probably coped better than I did, and them Battlax 020's were rock-steady even through the crap cold A9 weather, and the wet greasy roundabouts in Inverness).
I were "lucky" (if you can call it that) in that when I were preparing for my test (over winter '08 / '09) I had lessons in a variety of weathers (heavy rain, high winds, cold but dry days etc), and decent weather on test day - but the lessons I had in poor weather, and the experience I gained from it, proved invaluable. One lesson I had were on a road prone to crosswinds (I knew the road well, I used to go to work on that road during my L-plate days, and were aware of the crosswinds) - my instructor seemed quite surprised that I'd "coped so well with it".
You mention training, but mention being tight-fisted with money: I'd argue that training (whatever it costs) is worth every penny if it saves your bacon in situations you're uncertain of - there's no merit saying "I wish I'd..." if you throw it down the road (training will work out cheaper than weeks off work with no income...).
I've heard the "can I trust my bike / tyres?" question a few times; fact is most bikes / tyres are more capable than the human operator.
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If you can't afford lessons etc, just get out on the bike and don't be afraid. Is the fear mostly around the damage to the bike or yourself? Silly question I know, but I usually think about what's going to happen to my poor machine rather than myself :P
If its the bike, well you already dropped it and have a second now as well! So use your gold one to get more experience and not worry about dropping it as much. Your drops have been from low speed anyway, so you shouldn't (fingers crossed) hurt too much more than your pride
Try to find out which techniques you aren't familiar with or haven't gotten the knack of yet and get out and practice ONE at a time. Trying to through them all together will likely not end well. For example, how confident are you with counter-steering? If not very, get out on some twisty roads and practice. The more you get out and the more miles you rack up, the better you will get :) It took me a bit of getting used to when I got back in the saddle in January after not riding for 3 months
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Or what about getting out there in the rain with an experienced rider and watching how they ride. It'll certainly give you a bit more confidence to see them going round a corner in the wet, and following their lines.
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My little bit of advice would be rather than going from A to B on a short journey in the rain, go out and stay out in it for a while.
I used to get called into London quite often to go to film sets and had to get there as quick as possible.
Riding in the centre of London is traumatic enough anyway, but add rain in the mix and it all becomes a bit manic.
But i find that once you're out in the rain for quite a while you actually tend to forget about it, and i find myself riding the bike much more aggressively by the time i get back than when i first started out.
Saying that, it still falls back again on having tyres that you trust in the wet.
If you have little faith in your tyres then you will become rigid when riding, rather than relaxed, and it will make for a very uncomfortable journey every time you go out in the rain and lean the bike, and you really don't want that at all.
It's all about having a good feeling and rapport with the bike and the road, and the only way to learn that is by getting out there and practising! ;)