old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: NotAnotherHill on 19 April 2013, 04:17:10 pm
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My 00 FZS 600 has just failed its MOT. The metal cylinder piece that sits around the main bulb has come away from the reflector housing at the top. It looks like the heat from the bulb (possibly non-standard) has caused the point where it joins to the reflector to become brittle and break.
A new unit costs a fortune and I can only find an 01 model unit second hand so far and even that's £95.
2 questions:
Is the 01 model headlight unit compatible with my 00 model?
If I bodge the current unit by trying to fix the detached cylinder piece by possibly gluing it in place, will the headlight unit still be able to adjust using the adjustment screws?
Any solutions welcomed.
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Not sure about the compatibily question, but if its a boxeye , which it should be at 2001, then its compatible.
If you do bodge the cylinder piece on then adjustment is fine, as the adjuster moves the whole reflector and socket.
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Mine had this EXACT issue until today. I just removed the stupid metal bit... others have done it as well and its passed the MOT without it in there :)
Hot Poop section details it a bit more; http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Curing_rattling_%27bit%27_in_LH_%28H1%29_light_-_pre-02_models (http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Curing_rattling_%27bit%27_in_LH_%28H1%29_light_-_pre-02_models)
It came up in darrsi's vibe thread :)
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Oh dear, what have i started........ :lol
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What is the metal bit meant to do? Does it play a part in direction of the beam or as some kind of heat shield for the headlight lens?
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I've just read the topic link....mmm...a mystery. Maybe it's to signal to aliens in the far galaxies. This could explain why the beam is so poor on a Fazer if all it's light power is being directed to the far reaching outer reaches of the galaxy rather than the road ahead.
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What is the metal bit meant to do? Does it play a part in direction of the beam or as some kind of heat shield for the headlight lens?
The reflector is behind the bulb not as they used to be in the glass so the CONE stops light being pushed straight out the front of H1 blub crating a dazzle spot. It also improves the light pattern on low beam by forcing as much light as possible back at the reflector. H1 blubs don't have a blacked out nose like H4 on the other side and the light pattern for main beam isn't so critical, most MOT stations don't and haven't bothered looking at the light pattern so they pass without the bulb cone.
Most modern light units have them even cars but they are normally much smaller and use H7 blubs in these applications they are just to improve the light pattern.
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I read what Padraig was saying about undoing 2 clips to release something, in my other post about headlight vibration, and wasn't totally sure what he meant, and now i've read this post a few times, scratching my head, and realised that i have no idea what anyone is talking about??? :rolleyes
I'm starting to think this metal cylinder thingy you're on about has already been removed on mine.
When i look through the front lens all i see is the bare bulb, and the 2 locating pins.
Are you saying there is meant to be something else there, around the bulb?
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sits in front of the bulb,if you look into the light and you can see the bulb,yours has been removed......mine rattles and i was going to fix it back into position,but i think now i`ll just remove it :D
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darrsi - yes, there is a metal thingy which sits in-front of the bulb.
I found this image on Google, handily from our forum! You can see the metal bit in front of the bulb (as the camera isn't being blinded)
(http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r409/topgun44_2008/fazer%20mods/001.jpg)
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Well that's certainly complicated things, 'cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing.
The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing. The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
You've probably seen my post, i've put self amalgamating tape on the bulb holder, i think that'll help a little, although i'm still confused as to why it's still buzzing?
It's definitely the left bulb area, when i'm riding if i put my finger on the bulb wiring socket it stops, plus i can feel it really vibrating.
I may put some more tape on it tomorrow and build it up a bit and see if that helps.
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing. The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
You've probably seen my post, i've put self amalgamating tape on the bulb holder, i think that'll help a little, although i'm still confused as to why it's still buzzing?
It's definitely the left bulb area, when i'm riding if i put my finger on the bulb wiring socket it stops, plus i can feel it really vibrating.
I may put some more tape on it tomorrow and build it up a bit and see if that helps.
The blub plate has two off set dimples these line up with two holes in the back of the reflector, the bulb and it's holder are held in place with a spring clip. As the reflector disintegrates due to heat normal vibration wears the blub location holes eventually the bulb can move enough to causing the buzzing you can hear.
If your reflector cover rubber isn't a good fit that wont help, does to a point secure the bulb via it's holder, it's also possible your reflector is about to go west at it's adjustment mounting points again due to heat!
The head lights fitted to the Mk1 Fazer are the bikes biggest weakness just like the shock/forks!
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The tape i put on has slighted moved the bulb back, so the locating pins aren't pressed so hard against the housing.
I'll add some more tomorrow to see if it helps.
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing.
The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
My reflector is starting to melt behind the bulb. Will removing the cone exacerbate the problem of the damage caused by the heat from the bulb on reflector? The MOT station I had the bike tested at had what I think was a light testing unit (a red box type device at about headlight height with a circular glass surface on the front). If this is the case, will it fail on the spread of the beam without the cone?
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I've obviously never had the cone in question, and never failed an MOT yet!
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing.
The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
My reflector is starting to melt behind the bulb. Will removing the cone exacerbate the problem of the damage caused by the heat from the bulb on reflector? The MOT station I had the bike tested at had what I think was a light testing unit (a red box type device at about headlight height with a circular glass surface on the front). If this is the case, will it fail on the spread of the beam without the cone?
As far as I can tell, removing the stupid metal thingy should actually help prevent excess heat buildup. At the moment, it's reflecting most of the light backwards on to the reflector panels, if you remove the metal piece that will no longer happen as much, the beam will be altered but so far not a single person has had any issues with this on the MOT tests whereas there are multiple confirmations where bike have passed. I'd suggest trying to remove it carefully and if you want to pop it back in then do so. Its far from a permanent mod :)
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing.
The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
My reflector is starting to melt behind the bulb. Will removing the cone exacerbate the problem of the damage caused by the heat from the bulb on reflector? The MOT station I had the bike tested at had what I think was a light testing unit (a red box type device at about headlight height with a circular glass surface on the front). If this is the case, will it fail on the spread of the beam without the cone?
As far as I can tell, removing the stupid metal thingy should actually help prevent excess heat buildup. At the moment, it's reflecting most of the light backwards on to the reflector panels, if you remove the metal piece that will no longer happen as much, the beam will be altered but so far not a single person has had any issues with this on the MOT tests whereas there are multiple confirmations where bike have passed. I'd suggest trying to remove it carefully and if you want to pop it back in then do so. Its far from a permanent mod :)
Right, I'll take it out and put it through the test again. Fingers crossed.
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cos my light unit is still buzzing and my thingamajig isn't even there :groan
Check the front indicators where they go through the firing the biggest cause of buzzing.
The other is the cone and H1 blub. Heat from the bulb turns the back of the reflector into chalk disintegrating the back of the lens which isn't made of metal. This is the cause of the cone coming loose and the blub will start to oscillates in it's mounting = buzzing, eventually the entire back of the reflector collapses. Daytime use of low beam accelerates the damage and there is no practical/easy way of stopping it that I know of, tell tale sign is dust in the light unit.
If this is the case, will it fail on the spread of the beam without the cone?
No it shouldn't as long as the beam height/level is correct if not it should only fail on that which is adjustable and most MOT stattons will adjust it for you.
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I've got the headlight unit out but I'm struggling to separate the lens element from the main body to get behind to the cone. I assume these two bits come apart as there are clips. I've a feeling that the two parts have fused together at certain points so I'm trying to ease them apart with a flat bladed screw driver.
I'll attempt to upload the photos I've taken.
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(http://foc-u.co.uk/MGalleryItem.php?id=796)
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I tried that ages ago, it felt like a sealed unit to me, as if i was gonna have to muller it to get it apart, so i gave up.
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If you are trying to take the metal cone out, you don't have to abuse the headlights at all.
1. Remove left bulb and bend the cones legs to allow it to fall in to the headlight casing.
2. Remove right bulb
3. Use something to prod / pull the cone out through the gap on the right as it is large enough to get it out.
4. Refit bulbs, job done, have a brew :D
Took me literally 5 mins to do it yesterday. I have a handy torch which has a telescopic magnet in the centre which is damn useful for getting to bolts and things that I drop - this worked perfectly to grab hold of the metal cone and pull it out
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I have a horrible feeling he's not reading this and has a pneumatic drill or a pick axe on it by now :lol
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I must admit, I had no idea how to remove it when I first looked and didn't even realise that the two compartments for the bulbs weren't actually individually sealed. I try to see how I could remove the cluster but figure it was far too much trouble and just left it
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Thankfully, after hacking at it for a while, I decided to refit the shock and exhaust to the Fireblade and await further advice. Thanks, Dead Eye, you have saved my headlight unit from certain death.
The cone is out. I shall fit it all back together on the bike tomorrow and check the beam adjusters work then rebook for it's test.
First ride on my RRV Blade today after buying it February: fast, fast, fast and..fast. :D
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The cone is out. I shall fit it all back together on the bike tomorrow and check the beam adjusters work then rebook for it's test.
Fingers crossed, but i do fear that now they have failed it for it being loose they will be looking at that part and they may not like just having it removed as the 'fix'.
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As long as there's a beam and it's down and to the left a bit then why should it not pass?
When i first got my bike the lighting was absolutely terrible, but probably the standard set up.
Just by upgrading to brighter bulbs, that are plastic lens friendly, makes a huge improvement so compared to the stock set up can only be a good thing and i see no reason why it should fail.
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Having put it all back together, I was trying the beam adjusters to check if they worked. The left side top corner one did (it moves the beam up and down). However the bottom one for the main beam didn't seem to do anything. It should have moved it left/right but I didn't see any beam movement despite turning the adjuster plenty. It appears to be working when you look at the bolt through the lens but I can't see the reflective lens backing move. Should the left/ right be noticeable?
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When i last adjusted mine i found that they didn't work as straightforward as they should, but if you persevere with it they will move eventually.
I found it easier to do aiming at a wall when it's dark so you can see what's going on a lot better too.
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I have a 98 fazer removed the cone without taking out the headlamp unit. Went to a friends garage and the checked the light pattern, was better than with the cone in and light has a higher intensity reading. Plus the annoying buzzing noise is gone.
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found this thread whilst searching for 'peeling reflector' - that problem seems to be a fazer one!
The headlight unit is glued together. I bought angel eyes and to fit them the instructions were to put the headlight unit in the oven for 45 minutes. Then using 2 screwdrivers (OK, two knives from the drawer - but don't tell the wife!) it opened up nicely. another 30 minutes in the oven when you're done and it will reseal. I used some black gutter sealant around it too.
The reason I looked for peeling reflector was that my bike failed its MOT due to the light beam. The tester said to remove the angel eyes as they were likely the problem. He said to turn the lights on and test it by holding a board in front. The light should be a flat line which goes up to the left like this:
\_____
Mine still looks fuzzy, a bit like this \__*_ which I thought may be down to the flaking reflector
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I removed mine the last week, we don’t test bikes in Ireland, my friend has a garage and I put it on the beam sitter and it was giving a good pattern and better intensity reading. I did the headlamp mod; since I removed the cone the lights are a lot better.
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I've got the headlight unit out but I'm struggling to separate the lens element from the main body to get behind to the cone. I assume these two bits come apart as there are clips. I've a feeling that the two parts have fused together at certain points so I'm trying to ease them apart with a flat bladed screw driver.
I'll attempt to upload the photos I've taken.
You need to heat it with a heat gun, get it fairly hot without melting it to soften the glue and it pulls apart quite easily. Then heat it again to put it back together.
I have done it a few times over the years when I contverted the square lights on the 98 to 01 models to dual H4 bulbs. I managed to get completly shattered ones with the right side reflector from a breaker. Took them apart using a heat gun and removed right side reflectors from the broken ones and put it into the left side of the working ones. A little bit of fiddling to get it to fit then used Osram Nightbreakers and the result was well worth the effort
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You need to heat it with a heat gun, get it fairly hot without melting it to soften the glue and it pulls apart quite easily. Then heat it again to put it back together.
Ahh, but you miss getting to see a sight like this:
(http://db.tt/H9KP3XZR)
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What do you Baste it with, engine oil or brake fluid? :D