Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 01:09:59 pm
Now the fire got hot enough to render the rear wheel complete mush so with that in mind, how is the swing arm and engine going to have faired? Is it possible for me to salvage the engine and rebuild it, or is it simply destroyed? I would love for it to be ok, as I can potter about in my newly finished garage (today!!) and methodically dismantle and repair the old engine in my sweet time as I have a running Fazer to ride despite its many small issues...
The work required doesn't bother me and I think I have the tools and knowledge to under-take the job so that's not an issue either.
So without further babbling, are there any technical foccers out there who can lend some advice?
Post by: Chris on 28 March 2013, 01:18:30 pm
Chris
Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 01:25:24 pm
Post by: Chris on 28 March 2013, 01:28:13 pm
Well, all being well, I may end up starting a build thread and show the process from start to finish :)
That'd be great, we may well have a projects section soon too :D
Chris
Post by: Lawrence on 28 March 2013, 01:30:58 pm
Well, all being well, I may end up starting a build thread and show the process from start to finish :):thumbup Lots of photos please :)
Post by: Foxwood on 28 March 2013, 01:38:29 pm
Post by: Fazerider on 28 March 2013, 01:40:25 pm
The engine, on the other hand, looks from the photos to have been far enough away from the most intense part of the fire to have survived. It is basically one big conductive lump, even if the sprocket and clutch covers have been heat damaged, the rest should be useable. Rubber parts such as gear shift and driveshaft seals may need replacing of course, but the main bulk of the motor stands a very good chance of being OK.
Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 01:56:28 pm
Obviously parts that need to be replaced will be. I think the frame can be salvaged - though the grab rail literally disintegrated...
The forks will need a very good service but should also be fine so I think the majority of it should be ok. It's going to take a while mostly from a financial perspective in sourcing new replacement parts :)
Post by: Chris on 28 March 2013, 04:14:53 pm
The obvious road of streetfightering it/making it a naked bike would save having to source/pay for a fairing etc and would let you put your own unique twist to the fazer theme, possibly cheaper in some aspects although it all depends what you upgrade/replace/have custom made.
Chris
Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 04:56:05 pm
First things first is making sure I have a frame, engine and wheels really :P
The worst bit is going to electronics. The wiring is completely fubar and I had to severe large chunks of wire when attempting to move it - so I will definitely be back for electronics help! Thankfully I have a second bike to follow if I get lost. Its a huge project and probably the largest I've considered undertaking, but being able to do it at my leisure, at home, whilst having another bike on the road does take the pressure off.
I've been wanting to change the cambelts and tensioner on my car, I have all the parts but I just haven't gotten around to it as I don't have another car whilst mine is off the road... I used to but that's a whole other story :P
Post by: simonm on 28 March 2013, 05:21:37 pm
Is it worth spending that much time on a bike/engine that's gonna be worth £1k or so ?
Just offering an alternative perspective and more options.
Have fun and definitely do some pics. I'd love to see the burn out pixs too.
Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 06:22:37 pm
I'll be doing nearly everything myself and hopefully I won't need to spend huge amounts but over the long term if I do sell the bike (very unlikely) I'd be lucky if I broke even on it and that's before you take in to account everything I spent before this all happened :P
Post by: Exupnut on 28 March 2013, 07:11:11 pm
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Post by: dBfazer600 on 28 March 2013, 07:45:24 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 08:01:00 pm
Post by: Exupnut on 28 March 2013, 09:23:52 pm
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Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 09:37:40 pm
Post by: dBfazer600 on 28 March 2013, 09:50:53 pm
What is the file?
Its a youtube clip that is a fazer rebuild Yamaha FZS600 engine assembly and test drive after valve lapping (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NtpXhN7IQg#ws)
I Just figured it out
Ta Fellas
Daz
Post by: Chris on 28 March 2013, 09:56:43 pm
I expect a similar one from you Deadeye ;)
Chris
Post by: dBfazer600 on 28 March 2013, 10:02:56 pm
Daz
Post by: Exupnut on 28 March 2013, 10:12:10 pm
On most modern operating systems, files are organized into one-dimensional arrays of bytes. Like ur brain odo. Hehe. The format of a file is defined by its content since a file is solely a container for data, although, on some platforms, like the fzs6,the format is usually indicated by its filename extension, ie retarded.nob, specifying the rules for how the bytes must be organized and interpreted meaningfully.u nob For example, the bytes of a plain text file (.txt in Windows) are associated with either ASCII or UTF-8 characters, or USR-1 ( u shit rider number-1) while the bytes of image, video, and audio files are interpreted otherwise. Most file types also allocate a few bytes for metadata, which allows a file to carry some basic 600 fzs information about itself.
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Post by: Exupnut on 28 March 2013, 10:12:14 pm
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Post by: Dead Eye on 28 March 2013, 11:40:57 pm
What is the file?
Its a youtube clip that is a fazer rebuild Yamaha FZS600 engine assembly and test drive after valve lapping ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NtpXhN7IQg#ws[/url])
I Just figured it out
Ta Fellas
Daz
Awesome find, I'll see what I can do when I get round to doing mine.
I need to get some rags / sheets to line the garage floor a bit and may even buy a cheap wooden table to do some of the work. First things first is some half decent weather so that I don't freeze and some spare time and money :p
If its not too bad tomorrow I may start on removing the engine from the frame. Most of the fiddly stuff has been done since the carbs were removed already which is something else I will need to buy
Post by: simonm on 29 March 2013, 12:32:31 am
What is the file?
Its a youtube clip that is a fazer rebuild Yamaha FZS600 engine assembly and test drive after valve lapping ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NtpXhN7IQg#ws[/url])
I Just figured it out
Ta Fellas
Daz
Omfg. He is a goatee wearing god. I've liked his youtube video to show I respect his facial hair..... He seems pretty handy with an engine too.
God only knows what he was faffing with most of the time though.
Post by: Dead Eye on 29 March 2013, 04:12:20 pm
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130329_132146.jpg)
The wheels are missing and so is the centre stand along with several other bits so its been propped up on bricks for the past month at least.
Since the carbs were already off (as this was the job before the fire) it made the work load relatively light. The downside was the sheer amount of plastic and rubber than had melted and fused to things all over the place. Amazingly the K&N filter that was in the bike doesn't look in too bad nick, but its sort of stuck in half of the airbox so I can't get it out!
Naturally something had to go wrong and the bricks weren't exactly what I would call sturdy so this happened...
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130329_150436.jpg)
... but thankfully I think this may have been a blessing in disguise. With the bike on its side it meant I could manoeuvre the frame around the engine which is lighter and easier to move. I had also removed one of the forks (removed both in the end) and the handle bars, the remains of the airbox, the bar that holds the coils and fuel pump / filter etc
So after some fiddling I managed to get the frame and engine separated
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130329_151427.jpg)
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130329_151439.jpg)
At this point, believe it or not, it started snowing... so I called it a day and packed everything away and moved the frame / engine and bits in to the garage :)
Post by: simonm on 29 March 2013, 04:16:38 pm
Given the heat/rust I certainly wouldn't be mad keen on using much of the remainder :'(
I take it that it's classified as a write off :eek
Good luck with that.
Post by: Dead Eye on 29 March 2013, 04:38:49 pm
And the rust is only on the surface due to being left outside, a bit of sandpaper and a lick of paint it the frame should look good as new ^^
Post by: Foxwood on 29 March 2013, 06:18:48 pm
All that wiring and cleaning will be a helluva job. The frame and swingarm do look pretty badly charred. :\
Post by: Chris on 29 March 2013, 06:21:39 pm
All the best with it,
Chris
Post by: Dead Eye on 29 March 2013, 06:28:22 pm
Post by: simonm on 29 March 2013, 06:29:34 pm
Surely it will cost more to fix than buying a bike would? Buying a cat d write off, a fazer from a scrappy or whatever must be cheaper than buying the parts and the time you'll spend on it and if you did that the scrapper would be easier to get going than this one.
I guess I'm just a proper lazy ass.
Post by: simonm on 29 March 2013, 06:31:20 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 29 March 2013, 06:56:45 pm
If I end up just restoring the engine to replace my existing one then the costs are a lot lower I think than buying a new engine.
Post by: Chris on 29 March 2013, 06:58:48 pm
Chris
Post by: simonm on 29 March 2013, 07:11:11 pm
"some men just want to watch the world burn"
Aka
"some men just want to fix a burnt out bike"
;)
Post by: dBfazer600 on 29 March 2013, 07:13:11 pm
Daz
Post by: Dead Eye on 29 March 2013, 07:20:30 pm
It's like batman, only different.
"some men just want to watch the world burn"
Aka
"some men just want to fix a burnt out bike"
;)
Haha, I love it!
Thanks to you all for your support, I will no doubt be needing it as this project progresses as well as some advice and knowledge I imagine ^^
Post by: Thorn on 29 March 2013, 07:45:05 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 29 March 2013, 07:56:58 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 30 March 2013, 06:58:41 pm
Here are some photos for those who are interested :)
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_142025.jpg)
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_143547.jpg)
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_144845.jpg)
(http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_155505.jpg)
Post by: simonm on 30 March 2013, 07:01:02 pm
Got out in to the garage again today to do some fettling. Got the cams out and the head off, looking to remove the block next then see if I can get in to the gearbox. One of the main reasons for removing the head is that during my maintenance on it, I removed one of the spark plugs apparently and due to the fire and being left outside, huge amounts of crap managed to fall inside the chamber. Now that the head is off I can give it a proper cleaning out :)
Here are some photos for those who are interested :)
([url]http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_142025.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_143547.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_144845.jpg[/url])
([url]http://www.imperial-empire-se.com/images/foc-u/20130330_155505.jpg[/url])
Thanks for the pics. That engine looks in great shape. I guess they are designed to run at high temperatures
Post by: Dead Eye on 30 March 2013, 07:04:04 pm
This engine has only done 24k which isn't too high in the grand scheme of things and it was running very well before. My current 85k engine is quite rough, especially in the lower rev range despite the carbs being balanced recently.
I'll keep on taking photos as I go as it should help me remember how to put everything back as well haha
Post by: Chris on 30 March 2013, 07:06:00 pm
Keep the photos coming, very interesting already. Good to see how it's all put together!
Chris
Post by: dBfazer600 on 30 March 2013, 07:14:37 pm
Daz :thumbup
Post by: simonm on 30 March 2013, 07:29:36 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 30 March 2013, 07:38:33 pm
After all, this is still a rented property and I need to get round to de-greasing the garden patio before our next inspection... woops...
Edit: Oh btw, are the images a half decent size for everyone? I scale them down before hand from the originals but if larger versions are better than that can certainly be done :)
Post by: Exupnut on 30 March 2013, 07:44:02 pm
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Post by: Chris on 30 March 2013, 07:49:07 pm
Chris
Post by: Stedman8 on 30 March 2013, 09:57:24 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 30 March 2013, 10:49:01 pm
So far so good, though ideally i could do with a proper copy of the Haynes manual instead of a digital one, but that's money I don't have right now ;p
The most interesting bit is going to be dealing with the valves potentially as quickly skimming the Haynes it said that special tools are required. Though at the moment I don't think I'll have to remove them at least
Post by: Chris on 30 March 2013, 11:00:09 pm
Sure someone will have a copy but has sold on their bike and got something else and they might just charge you postage for it.
Chris
Post by: Dead Eye on 31 March 2013, 03:56:10 pm
The valves definitely need a good clean all round which requires removing them. This means acquiring a valve spring compressor kit but these go from £10 to £150 so why such a huge difference in price range? I usually like to buy quality, but at £80-£150 for the brands I know its pretty steep for a very specialised piece of kit that I'm not likely to use often...
Also, any advice on the actual procedure is always welcome ;)
Post by: red98 on 31 March 2013, 07:21:47 pm
Time for the asking for help part :D
The valves definitely need a good clean all round which requires removing them. This means acquiring a valve spring compressor kit but these go from £10 to £150 so why such a huge difference in price range? I usually like to buy quality, but at £80-£150 for the brands I know its pretty steep for a very specialised piece of kit that I'm not likely to use often...
Also, any advice on the actual procedure is always welcome ;)
this is well within your capabilities DEADEYE and well worth doing,did my 600 last year,real old fashoned mechanics that you will enjoy doing,i have the tool for the job and will try to post pictures later when all the relatives have gone ;)
Post by: Dead Eye on 31 March 2013, 07:55:21 pm
Did you go for one of the expensive kits or would a cheap one do fine? Typically more expensive items are better quality, but this is subject to the type of tool. A cheap hammer is typically going to the same job just as well as an expensive one, but cheap sockets will chew up bolts compared to good fitting, expensive and better quality ones :P
Post by: Exupnut on 31 March 2013, 08:07:52 pm
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Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 10:37:42 am
Post by: Dead Eye on 01 April 2013, 10:50:16 am
So what exactly determines the price difference between say these two;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-5-in-1-10PCs-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-Kit-Set-For-Cars-Motorcycles-Bikes-/120910732712?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c26d75da8 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-5-in-1-10PCs-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-Kit-Set-For-Cars-Motorcycles-Bikes-/120910732712?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c26d75da8)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-5258-Valve-Spring-Compressor-and-Stem-Seal-Installer-Tool-Kit-/160768943094?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item256e9363f6 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-5258-Valve-Spring-Compressor-and-Stem-Seal-Installer-Tool-Kit-/160768943094?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item256e9363f6)
Post by: limax2 on 01 April 2013, 12:08:58 pm
The first one is all you need.
Keep up the good work with photo's etc and good luck.
Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 12:20:27 pm
I look forward to it :)
So what exactly determines the price difference between say these two;
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-5-in-1-10PCs-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-Kit-Set-For-Cars-Motorcycles-Bikes-/120910732712?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c26d75da8[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-5-in-1-10PCs-Valve-Spring-Compressor-Tool-Kit-Set-For-Cars-Motorcycles-Bikes-/120910732712?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c26d75da8[/url])
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-5258-Valve-Spring-Compressor-and-Stem-Seal-Installer-Tool-Kit-/160768943094?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item256e9363f6[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Laser-5258-Valve-Spring-Compressor-and-Stem-Seal-Installer-Tool-Kit-/160768943094?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item256e9363f6[/url])
ah.........just been looking at those myself,the one in the red case is the one i would go for,different adaptors to suit a wide range of engines both ohv and ohc and a very good price
i have two compressors one for ohv the other ohc,i modified the ohc one to work on the fazer,it worked well :) ,seen them on ebay or £11/12 +del but not as good buy as multi use one :)
the laser tool is for removing the valve spring without removing the head for replacement of valve stem oil seal,it uses an adaptor which fits in place of the spark plug and is then attached to a compressed air supply which holds the valve shut with enough pressure to compress the spring ,remove the colets.spring retainer and spring and then the oil seal.
all very clever and a great time saver but i think for garage use only....it makes sense for the home mechanic to remove the valve at same time and re-grind them...ie ,a proper job :D
[size=78%] i have some pictures of the tools but for some reason i cant post pictures on my ageing pc so will try on my sons laptop later on [/size] ;)
Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 12:24:19 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 01 April 2013, 12:27:57 pm
I have just bought one of those cheaper kits as the valves really do need a clean... lots of crap has fallen in to the intake especially
What exactly is required for grinding the valves? I was potentially just going to remove them, tidy them up, then replace
Post by: limax2 on 01 April 2013, 12:42:50 pm
Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 02:01:56 pm
Post by: limax2 on 01 April 2013, 05:12:06 pm
There is an opinion that it's best to leave them alone if they seal and look o.k., but I faviour a quick fine lapping if the heads off.
Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 06:47:31 pm
Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 07:11:00 pm
LIMAX2, sounds like you`ve done this job a few times before ;)
looking through my "stuttering" thread i came across some before and after pictures of my head....page 4,reply 418 + 490.. :D
Post by: Dead Eye on 01 April 2013, 07:22:34 pm
I actually bought some of the Chemito stuff and the sucker from eBay earlier today as it wasn't overly expensive. Some of the valves look a little stuck at the moment and I wouldn't be surprised if they need a little bit of grinding. Through experience I know to take things easy instead of using brute force all the time :P
I'll keep you informed with some photos as well ^^ Need to sand back and re-spray the external of the head as well as the the rest of the block :P
I reckon the hardest part will be dealing with the timings when re-assembling and I'm leaning towards replacing the cam chain since I have the engine in so many pieces already, but they aren't cheap!
Post by: limax2 on 01 April 2013, 07:35:24 pm
LIMAX2, sounds like you`ve done this job a few times before ;)
Plenty of times on BSA's, Triumph's and Norton's but as it happens not on my Fazer. It's so reliable all I can do is add bits on and polish it. :D .
Post by: red98 on 01 April 2013, 07:54:42 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 01 April 2013, 09:58:13 pm
Post by: Dead Eye on 11 May 2013, 03:20:26 pm
Engine Rebuild |
Engine Rebuild |
Engine Rebuild |
Engine Rebuild |
I've given the head a good clean out and the ports are looking much tidier. However, does anyone have any advice on what to use to clean the valves? A lot of the crap on them is quite caked on - the carbs were off during the fire so everything just poured into the intake ports and down on to the valves :(
I tried looking to see if new valves can be purchased - doesn't look like it as they weren't even on the AJ Sutton website. I guess ideally they shouldn't be replaced, it was just a precautionary measure to check. Need to scrape off all the crap off the head and respray it which might be done reasonably soon.
Also, is there any sort of cleaner that I should avoid when dealing with the cylinders to prevent damaging the cylinder wall? Need to buy piston rings really, but they are quite expensive :(
Post by: red98 on 11 May 2013, 08:36:50 pm
Post by: kitcrazy on 15 May 2013, 09:11:22 am
Post by: Dead Eye on 15 May 2013, 11:25:35 am
After that, it will be time to move down the engine and clean up the cylinder block. It's in mostly good condition, so I don't expect it will take long. After that, its on to the pistons. I'm really uncertain as to whether to replace the piston rings or not. On the one hand, it would make sense to do them whilst it's all apart, but on the other, they are insanely expensive at £40-50 a piston :(