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Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: stevierst on 06 February 2013, 11:37:31 pm
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This is my third Fazer 600, and I love 'em to bits for their normally neutral handling, and just all round usefulness.
This one however has a rather unnerving habit. At between 35-45 mph if you loosen your grip on the bars, she starts a headshake which slowly (1-3seconds) gets worse until I grip the bars again for fear of a tankslapper. I've tried several times at different speeds, and with varying tyre pressures, and even with my large holdall (40kg) on the back. The result is the same every time.
I don't know how long it's been there, as I don't let go of the bars very often :rolleyes . Is there any guru's out there that have any idea what could be causing this? I've recently had the wheel off, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary, the brakes have been recently overhauled, and the bike has just clocked 21k. I'm thinking maybe suspension fault, but I'm having a wild stab in the dark.
Someone please help!!! :o
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I'm no guru, just have a lot of problems with mine, howz the headstock bearing?? That's where I'd start, need to do mine myself, about half turn either way I'm getting a tight part of the bearing. And first time I drive out the gate when I stop I'm getting a solid knock noise but won't hear it again until the next day?
Headstock just might need a little tightening,
also did u hit any bad holes lately? off balance wheel might throw it of abit and at that speed u would notice more harsh feedback from it.
Hope this gives you something to start with?
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Wheel/tyre out of balance, uneven fork oil level.
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Also have a read of this in the hot poop section ! Just found it,
http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Front_Wheel_Wobble_-_description,_and_possible_causes (http://foc-u.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Front_Wheel_Wobble_-_description,_and_possible_causes)
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Wheel/tyre out of balance, uneven fork oil level.
iam with you DARRSI.......what condition is the tyre in ?
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Tyres only been on no more than 2k, and its just had an mot. Its my sons bike, but he doesn't ride any more so I use it for winter. He could have easily chucked it in a pothole or two, he was quite a careless rider.
Ill start to check these areas out and see what I can find. Your helps appreciated guys! :thumbup
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If ever you do get round to considering checking/changing the fork oil, go for 15w oil instead of the suggested 10w oil, i've found it to give much more stability up front since i changed mine.
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Mine's doing it at the moment, when I've got a load of luggage on, haven't noticed it without luggage, just assumed the front end was lighter than it was designed to be
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
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this is a problem across the board ( bikes of all makes and size ) No 1 culprit is luggage, in particular topboxes. reason being, if bike is loaded up to the gills, then yes front end tends to go fairly light. combine this with ( topboxes in particular) wind ( no, not that wind ) deflection first around the rider and then across the pillion `void` before hitting luggage all ends up producing a severe front end wobble, which coincidentally worsens with increased speed. ( hence the wheel balance theory coming into play). something to think about. most probably get shot out of the water like most of me posts ! :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes Ade why do i bother?
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i had this briefly on my square eye, new tyre fixed the problem. hope this helps
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good to see you input again ade :D .......i know about tyre pressure and extra loads etc.does the same apply to rear springs,surely thats what the adjustment is for ;)
when out touring last year,i had 50 ltr top box on the thou and filled the gap between rider and box with tote bag,no problems at all....bit tricky getting off after a long day riding though :o :o :o
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Mines being doing it since new, just keep you hands on the bars :lol . A common problem on the 600 and any I have ridden were the same, Nothing you do will fix it, only reduce it. Definetely worse with worn tyres.
For some reason it does not happen on my sons fazer 400 and it has the same tyres, fork springs, fork adjusters, fork oil and rear shock as my 600.
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I would have thought firming up the suspension must help quite a bit, and making sure tyre pressures are correct for the load?
I've felt a wobble at high speed with a passenger before, with added top box weight and a head on wind, you're nearing to the point of doing a wheelie so the steering naturally goes light.
The 600's have a 187kg total weight load limit on them, which is fine for one person, but i'm about 100kg for instance, then add the always half full large top box and metalwork, possibly 25kg, and it leaves you quite limited as to the size of your passengers you can take, about 9 stone max in my case.
I bet a lot of people don't take these weight limits into consideration!
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this is a problem across the board ( bikes of all makes and size ) No 1 culprit is luggage, in particular topboxes. reason being, if bike is loaded up to the gills, then yes front end tends to go fairly light. combine this with ( topboxes in particular) wind ( no, not that wind ) deflection first around the rider and then across the pillion `void` before hitting luggage all ends up producing a severe front end wobble, which coincidentally worsens with increased speed. ( hence the wheel balance theory coming into play). something to think about. most probably get shot out of the water like most of me posts ! :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes Ade why do i bother?
Looks like i'm goosed so!!
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Where exactly is the kitchen sink Packie? :lol
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And finally we get to the bottom of why he is called "packie" :lol
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Where exactly is the kitchen sink Packie? :lol
That was all the girlfriends gear!! I only brought a change of underwear!!!
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And finally we get to the bottom of why he is called "packie" :lol
Well, at least all that gear is still lighter than that big lump of a motor that you will be trying lug into that frame on the weekend...gulp!!!!. :eek
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And finally we get to the bottom of why he is called "packie" :lol
Well, at least all that gear is still lighter than that big lump of a motor that you will be trying lug into that frame on the weekend...gulp!!!!. :eek
Yeah... getting it out I had gravity technically on my side. Getting it back in is going to be a right pain, but I have my trusty floor jack to assist plus I think Exupnut will be attending to give me a hand ^^
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And finally we get to the bottom of why he is called "packie" :lol
Well, at least all that gear is still lighter than that big lump of a motor that you will be trying lug into that frame on the weekend...gulp!!!!. :eek
Yeah... getting it out I had gravity technically on my side. Getting it back in is going to be a right pain, but I have my trusty floor jack to assist plus I think Exupnut will be attending to give me a hand ^^
....you called in the calvary, you wuss! :thumbdown
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Bet it solved the shaking problem, you would be afraid to take you hands off to check it. :lol
How far did you ride with that load?
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XJ900 Diversions are prone to the front end "wobble"! most put it down to having a top box,i would suggest if you don't have a box on check wheel & swingarm bearings too!!!
Ray
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Putting the obvious like wheel, head and swingarm bearings aside which can be checked in a few minutes..
The problem could lie in the geometery..
Have you checked the sag?
How far round is the rear preload ring?
If the sag is correct, and the shock is in good order, check the air gap in the forks as it could be too low..
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I used to have a Fazer and without luggage it was fine but even with an empty topbox it would emulate your bike.
I ended up fitting a cheapy steering damper for piece of mind mainly for when touring.
I've still got it if you want it for the cost of postage and a few beers ( the steering damper and connections / mounts, not the Fazer ) ;)
Baz :)
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Thanks for the replies guys. Been using the fz1 for a week or so, and left the 600 in the garage. Found out yesterday that there is a slow puncture in the rear tyre and pumped it up to 40psi, front was only on 25psi, took it up to 32. Went for a ride and the shake is dramatically reduced, but still there.
Got to look into this further, as my other two Fazers didn't have this problem.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Hi all, sorry to resurrect an oldish thread but noticed mine doing the same today and wondered if the lack of bar ends may be contributing? Its got heated grips and the bar ends are not fitted (done before I owned it), it is also a 2001 model so has preload, I did wind in the preload a bit earlier this week and again, I wonder if this could cause it?, i have wound it back out now and will check it on the road tomorrow, any guidance or advice welcome as it is a bit disconcerting, especially as I like to ride with quite a light grip on the bars :eek
Thanks in advance
Jonesy
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Mine did/does it with standard bars and weights, now I've got 785's on, it still shakes. Gonna check/overhaul the forks this summer, so hopefully that will solve it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Mine did/does it with standard bars and weights, now I've got 785's on, it still shakes. Gonna check/overhaul the forks this summer, so hopefully that will solve it.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Thanks, like you this is my 3rd gen 1 Fazer and the 1st time I've noticed it as an issue, am hoping winding the preload out again may help a bit, but haven't had the bike long and today was the first long ride on it, was wondering whether the fork oil gets thinner/hotter the longer its ridden and whether this may have an effect?, may be chasing my tail a bit on this one.
Jonesy
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Wheel/tyre out of balance, uneven fork oil level.
iam with you DARRSI.......what condition is the tyre in ?
agreed, i used to get wobble at 100mph. new front and rebalance and its gone even at 120mph. closed roads obviously ;)
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Hi all, sorry to resurrect an oldish thread but noticed mine doing the same today and wondered if the lack of bar ends may be contributing? Its got heated grips and the bar ends are not fitted (done before I owned it), it is also a 2001 model so has preload, I did wind in the preload a bit earlier this week and again, I wonder if this could cause it?, i have wound it back out now and will check it on the road tomorrow, any guidance or advice welcome as it is a bit disconcerting, especially as I like to ride with quite a light grip on the bars :eek
Thanks in advance Jonesy
Bar end weights will do nothing they are there to deaden vibration through the bars. Jacking up your preload can have a impact as you are reducing/steepening the head angle to a point but you'd have to go some to make it start shaking it's head. Check the headraces as if they are loose/worn they will be far more sensitive to any shock adjustment or tyre wear/pressures.
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Hi all, sorry to resurrect an oldish thread but noticed mine doing the same today and wondered if the lack of bar ends may be contributing? Its got heated grips and the bar ends are not fitted (done before I owned it), it is also a 2001 model so has preload, I did wind in the preload a bit earlier this week and again, I wonder if this could cause it?, i have wound it back out now and will check it on the road tomorrow, any guidance or advice welcome as it is a bit disconcerting, especially as I like to ride with quite a light grip on the bars :eek
Thanks in advance Jonesy
Bar end weights will do nothing they are there to deaden vibration through the bars. Jacking up your preload can have a impact as you are reducing/steepening the head angle to a point but you'd have to go some to make it start shaking it's head. Check the headraces as if they are loose/worn they will be far more sensitive to any shock adjustment or tyre wear/pressures.
Thanks, have wound the preload back out again and no real difference, always wondered whether the preload does much at all!, anyhows it only happens when taking hands off the bars so not a big issue, I have planned some progressive springs and a new front tyre in a few months and a service in a couple of weeks when I'll ask them to check the head races, so hopefully all that that will make a difference.
Jonesy
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They've already got progressive springs as standard.
I'd be inclined to change the fork oil if you don't know when it was last checked, and make sure the levels are spot on.
The level for 00/01 bikes are different to 98/99 bikes because you have the adjusters, so more internal metal work and less oil, so make sure you get the correct air gap from the manual.
And i don't know what build you are, but if you are of the heavier variety then try using 15w grade oil rather than 10w, i found it to make the front end much more stable, but then i'm no lightweight.
If you look like you need a good meal then stay with the 10w otherwise you'll find it a bit bumpy up front, although at least you can use your adjusters.
I've got older forks without adjusters on my 00/01 bike, but have had no problems at all. :)
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They've already got progressive springs as standard.
I'd be inclined to change the fork oil if you don't know when it was last checked, and make sure the levels are spot on.
The level for 00/01 bikes are different to 98/99 bikes because you have the adjusters, so more internal metal work and less oil, so make sure you get the correct air gap from the manual.
And i don't know what build you are, but if you are of the heavier variety then try using 15w grade oil rather than 10w, i found it to make the front end much more stable, but then i'm no lightweight.
If you look like you need a good meal then stay with the 10w otherwise you'll find it a bit bumpy up front, although at least you can use your adjusters.
I've got older forks without adjusters on my 00/01 bike, but have had no problems at all. :)
Never knew that!, just saved me £100, thanks, I'm 12 stone so pretty average build, I think I'll get a new tyre as one will be needed soon and make sure they balance it at the same time and see if that helps.
Do you have any guide on what I should set the preload at?, i see there are 6 marks, when I got it a month ago you could see 5 of the markings, it is a bit bumpy on the front end but the roads in Devon are in a pretty shit way which doesn't help. I have no idea how suspension settings work regarding sag and all that!
Jonesy
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I always preferred the front to be firm firstly 'cos i'm heavier but also 'cos i used to take passengers and you get much better control when the front isn't diving on braking.
When i had adjustable forks i had them turned right in with just the one notch showing.
For your weight i wouldn't try the 15w oil, i reckon you'll find it too firm.
If i was you i'd try it on the 3rd notch for a while and if you don't like it move one notch at a time until you feel what's best for you.
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If its done it from purchase then it could be twisted forks, if its been a gradual thing then change the front tyre and or get it balanced properly. Worst thing is a bent and or twisted frame - dont want to scare you but maybe you should have a close look.
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If its done it from purchase then it could be twisted forks, if its been a gradual thing then change the front tyre and or get it balanced properly. Worst thing is a bent and or twisted frame - dont want to scare you but maybe you should have a close look.
Eeeeek! , no worries though, bike was HPI checked and thoroughly checked over at my local garage prior to purchase so am pretty confident that all is okay structurally :) , front tyre is a bit square and doesn't have much life left so will replace sooner rather than later and get balanced etc, with hands on the bars there's no wobble at all right up to warp speed, its just when releasing them a wobble starts, exactly as the OP described, I'll also set the preload to 3 and take it from there, thanks for the advice
Jonesy
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Don't forget when a tyre is worn the balancing is not as accurate as when it was new, 'cos there's less rubber and weight.
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Almost defo the front tyre - get it changed but beware you will find the bike handles rather well with new boots dont fall into the trap I fell into of over confidence and then come a cropper...... :'(
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Just in case anyone else has this problem, today I had a new front tyre fitted and balanced and voila problem solved, sorry to highjack your thread stevierst and hope you solve your problem soon.
Jonesy