Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: Skippernick on 28 January 2013, 09:57:25 pm
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New rear tyre fitted last week and put the wheel back in all by myself, as far as I can tell its all gone in fine, no bits left chain slack is within tolerance etc.
Took it for a ride yesterday (90 mile) and there is a constant whirling/whine noise. Its not engine because it the same with clutch in etc. It correlates and changes with bike speed.
Can't remember if it was there before. Am i being paranoid or have i done something stupid?
Nick
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wheel aligned correctly? don't rely on the marking on the swing arm.
pads rubbing?
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Mine has had this noise since I have had it (which is only about 400 miles or so). I keep thinking its the tread pattern doing it, but i wonder if its the wheel out of balane, I have tried coasting in neutral with the engine off to hear more of the noise, and it does sound likes its coming from teh chain.
Your desciription sounds exactly like the way I would describe it.
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Ok, so how do you check wheel alignment if you cant use the markings. I tried double checking using a ruler and measuring to the swing arm but it seemed that the wheel was naturally nearer to the left side of the swing arm. :o
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bolt center distance to end of swingarm, if one side is closer than the other its not aligned!
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I use a tyre depth gauge to check wheel alignment :rolleyes
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If the wheel's misaligned it can cause a clunking sound as the chain tries to correct itself.
You sure the chain's not too tight?
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bolt center distance to end of swingarm, if one side is closer than the other its not aligned!
Sorry which bolt? the chain tension bolts?
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If the wheel's misaligned it can cause a clunking sound as the chain tries to correct itself.
You sure the chain's not too tight?
Theres no clunking sound. chain has about 40mm no more play in it.
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Might be tyre noise
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Any noise when wheel is spun by hand,put on centre stand and run the wheel up to speed.listen for that noise.when i had new tyres fitted had same sort of noise.
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I have the same issue, but then again I did use a digital gauge but measured to the markings and slack is fine and chain is lubed, so markings on Swingarm can be slightly off??
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Generally speaking, the lines should be reasonably accurate, they're not there to mess with your head (or bike), but when the wheel's offset you should pretty well feel it being all wrong!
Heavy duty chains definitely cause a whirring noise, try lubing the chain and see if that makes a difference?
It's a difficult one to diagnose to be honest without us hearing it?
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if in doubt i'd just take it off again and check everything including the wheel bearings and go from there. shouldn't take more than 20 minutes
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you can also check alingment using a straight length of timber or angle iron,rest it against both wheels the whole length of the bike and see if its touching both sides of both wheels......also take the chain guard off and look at the chain from the rear of the bike to see if its in-line with the sprocket ;)
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I measure from the swingarm pivot bolt to the rear axle bolt to double check alignment..
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Ok guys thanks a lot, lots of ideas i shall try and report back to you. SOunds like other people have this noise so at least its not unheard of.
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When i put a heavy duty chain on my bike when i first bought it the noise difference was very noticeable.
That noise, paired with the whiney gearbox was one of the main reasons i changed the end can to make it drown the sounds out.
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Chains can make noise as people pointed out. Have you a quite pipe and drive with your visor open? You hear a lot of things going on while riding with the above conditions. I can hear the cams whirring around underneath me ect. If you have a fairly load pipe and can hear stuff above that noise, then it would be a great cause for concern alright.
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I can hear this over my pipe with the visor open, im pretty confident its the chain on mine as in engine off coasting it sounds very much chain like, I need to check the tension etc which I havent done yet.
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Did you buy the same brand of tyre?
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If the wheel's misaligned it can cause a clunking sound as the chain tries to correct itself.
You sure the chain's not too tight?
+1.............was the chain adjusted on the centre stand ? ;)
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I can hear this over my pipe with the visor open, im pretty confident its the chain on mine as in engine off coasting it sounds very much chain like, I need to check the tension etc which I havent done yet.
Ya...after adjusting and measuring the chain slack, I make a habit of checking it again after tightening up Axel. Someimes the slack can go out again with less slack.
Also, have you torqued the axle nut? I torque every bolt. If your nut is not torque up correctly with enuff pressure, the wheel and sprocket could possibly be not over fully to the drive side. Even an extra twist or two could maybe leave you out by a few milimetres which would make the chain running at a slight angle between the both sprockets and not running or seating properly around the sprockets.
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Ah chain was checked when on the centre stand!
Everything was torqued up to the correct torque.
Just checked the manuel and it should be checked on the centre stand.
I do have a loud zorst, it has been off for a month or so, so i would of thought i would of picked up on it. But is that me being paranoid. I also where ear plugs!
Same tyre bridgestone bt23.
I'm going to double check everything again tonight.
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Well just double checked everything, the alignment was fine, but the chain tension may of been tight.
So i have readjusted it. Haynes manual says check slack when on the side stand, owners manual when on the centre stand. Gone down the haynes route this time, will try again over the week end.
Nick
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The service manual says to check it with 2 wheels on the ground, ie on the side stand, I would go by that.
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Did you check the wheel bearings when you had the wheel off?
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The service manual says to check it with 2 wheels on the ground, ie on the side stand, I would go by that.
+1......think about it, for example. you adjust chain on centre stand to say,40mm. then you flop bike down off stand and the weight of the bike settling onto the suspension knocks that down to 30mm play. then you ( and possibly a pillion ) jump on, knocking that down to 20mm or even less. now imagine you adjust it on centre stand to spec, but manual says this must be done on side stand...........instant guitar string!! everything stressed to the max...bearings, output shafts etc, and that nice shiny chain just waiting to take your calf (or worse ) off. food for thought i think. ride safe ;)
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In my defence your honour i only followed the manual. :)
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In my defence your honour i only followed the manual. :)
hey matey, don`t think for one minute i was aving a go at ya........far from it. I was just putting a comment in general out there for all peeps to consider, not aimed at you in particular. If it came across like that, then i really do apologise......no harm intended :( just trying to safeguard others from bad mistakes i have seen people do over the years, thats all ;) ride safe ! Ade xxx just for you :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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you upsetting foccers ade :( .......cant get a reply from CRH but when i do he will sort you out :rollin :rollin
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The service manual says to check it with 2 wheels on the ground, ie on the side stand, I would go by that.
+1......think about it, for example. you adjust chain on centre stand to say,40mm. then you flop bike down off stand and the weight of the bike settling onto the suspension knocks that down to 30mm play. then you ( and possibly a pillion ) jump on, knocking that down to 20mm or even less. now imagine you adjust it on centre stand to spec, but manual says this must be done on side stand...........instant guitar string!! everything stressed to the max...bearings, output shafts etc, and that nice shiny chain just waiting to take your calf (or worse ) off. food for thought i think. ride safe ;)
Obviously you have made up those figures and are wild guessing??. I doubt if you went away and checked one or two people up on a bike and measured the chain slack after a centre stand adjustment.
Now what about the other side to the story?......
So, Haynes recommend that you adjust the chain on the sidestand with the same specs. What if they are wrong? Why do you assume that Yamaha got it wrong? I mean, they made the bike so I think that they would know what spec is best and the way to perform that function....no?
If there was a danger of chains snapping or if chains have snapped in the past because of this inaccurate information that Yamaha supplied, they I think they would have been sued to hell and all those Service Manuals would be forced to be withdrawn. I have no heard of any such thing lawsuits or withdrawal of their manuals.
One thing that I didn't see on this thread that the OP might check, which is the actual chain condition itself? Did he measure it in various spots and measure a section of the links like even the Haynes Manual suggests? Maybe he did and I missed it on the thread somewhere. But I know that my chain is being replaced as we speak as it has tight spots in certain parts of the chain and the slack would be 40mm in some areas and 30mm in other areas. Now if I had adjusted my chain to the minimum setting of 30mm on a slack spot, wouldn't the the tight spot of the chain be a way too tight and make plenty of noise around the front sprocket?
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So haynes matches up with the yam service manual, however if the slack was adjusted on the center stand, then the slack would go down, when one person sits on it normally, and then go down again with 2 people on it.
That is Ade's point, that the tension would be too high with 2 people on it for example, possibley runing the output bearing, possibly heating the chain up to cause failure etc. Its not the numbers that are being argued.
Oddly, the service manual says to check on the sidestand, the owners manual says to check on the center stand, and haynes says to check on the side stand. You can only assume that the sidestand and center stand measurements dont make that much difference (seing as the weight is still on the back wheel when on the center stand), maybe 5mm out if that?
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The weight isn't on the back wheel, when on the centre stand. Not on mine anyway, and it's been that way from new. Nor on any other bike I've put on a centre stand.
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
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interesting views here.....i find it easier to adjust chain with bike on centre stand at the tighest point in the chain if you have one,when finished adjusting take the bike off the centre stand and let bike settle and then give it another quick check.......each to their own of course......there must be a difference in slack between the two methods,parhaps 40mm suits both having 10mm tolerence to suit both methods ;)
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will change again with pillion as atb has already mentioned......easy fix.....dont date fat birds :rollin :rollin
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So haynes matches up with the yam service manual, however if the slack was adjusted on the center stand, then the slack would go down, when one person sits on it normally, and then go down again with 2 people on it.
That is Ade's point, that the tension would be too high with 2 people on it for example, possibley runing the output bearing, possibly heating the chain up to cause failure etc. Its not the numbers that are being argued.
I don't know if the tension would increase at all with pillions aboard as I never checked it and neither has Ade. That's why I shot down his figures and his assumptions until he comes up with hard facts.
Ade assumes that when a pillion sits on the bike that the slack will be "taken up" because it seems obvious to the mind....yes?
He also assumed that when you make an adjustment on the centrestand and then drop it on the sidestand that the slack would be taken up there also because that is obvious to the mind also and commonsense....yes?. But I know for fact that the latter one is FALSE from tried experience. There is no difference in adjusting from the centerstand and sidestand so the OP wasted his time!
Hard to believe isn't it? Do it yourself. Put a mark on a link on your chain. Take a measurement on the centrestand and then from the sidestand.....no difference!! The obvious and common sense is blown right out of the water. So adjusting on the centrestand is quite safe.
Also, until somebody takes a measurement with and without a pillion on board, I'll keep an open mind too on weather the slack is been taking up there too and by any significant difference. I like to deal in hard fact and not wild assumptions. Cheers.
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Sorry about the last reply....the quote and response got jumbled up!! :'(
Here's my response.............
Ade assumes that when a pillion sits on the bike that the slack will be "taken up" because it seems obvious to the mind....yes? But has anyone checked it out as to be actual fact and but how much slack is it taken up?
Ade also assumed that when you make an adjustment on the centrestand and then drop it on the sidestand that the slack would be taken up there also. This is obvious too and commonsense....yes?. Not so. There is no difference in adjusting from the centerstand and sidestand so the OP wasted his time! :z
Hard to believe isn't it? Do it yourself. Put a mark on a link on your chain. Take a measurement on the centrestand and then from the sidestand.....no difference or any difference of any significance that would impact your riding condition!! The obvious and common sense is blown right out of the water. So adjusting on the centrestand is quite safe. :guitar
So, until somebody takes a measurement with and without a pillion on board, I'll keep an open mind on that one too! I like to deal in hard fact and not wild assumptions. :uhuh
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No worries.
The only way the chain slack would be the same, regardless of swing arm position, would be if the pivot point was on top of the front sprocket. Which would be difficult!
As such, the chain slack will change with the swing arm position. See below image:
(http://www.cybersteering.com/cruise/feature/bullet/images/drivechain.gif)
Not by much granted, and it only really affects bikes with bigger distances between swingarm pivot and the chain. not sure what the maths is for for fazer.
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All this talk of chain tension made me go out and check mine. less than 20mm free play!
I hadnt checked it since I bought if from the dealer, all sorted now :)
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In my defence your honour i only followed the manual. :)
hey matey, don`t think for one minute i was aving a go at ya........far from it. I was just putting a comment in general out there for all peeps to consider, not aimed at you in particular. If it came across like that, then i really do apologise......no harm intended :( just trying to safeguard others from bad mistakes i have seen people do over the years, thats all ;) ride safe ! Ade xxx just for you :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
:lol no offense taken, that was said with tongue firmly in cheek.
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Blimey that set the cat amoungst the pigeons.
Just to clarify, i checked the slack in several places whilst on the centre stand. As far as i can tell the chain is in good condition. I am not even half way along the marks on the swing arm.
All i can say is that i checked the tension whilst on the centre stand and then this noise appeared, i will test ride on friday to see if it still there after checking the tension on the side stand.
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No worries, Im in the same boat as you, did you end up moving the back wheel back when you adjusted the tension?
If so, it may be too tight, I have just loosend mine and will check it on a ride out later on. I will report back.
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I generally find it best to have someone sit on the bike and adjust the chain accordingly. Saves the hassle of deciding which manual recommendation is the best. Plus if you have a tight spot on the chain it also gives you better idea of what you're up against. ;)
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Ok the results.
After a week of fettling and worrying, i went for a test ride this afternoon, and all sounds fine although i was still paranoid. And thought i could still hear it. And actually don't know if i was chain tension or wheel misalignment.
So went to my stealer to get them to check everything over and they gave it the a-ok. Possibly a tight chain coupled with the fact thats its original and got 18,000 miles on it. The mechanic also said chain tension should be checked on the centre stand. But i will double check when its on the side stand in future as well.
Other reason may have been on some yamaha's of this ilk they put a cush drive next to front sproket to reduce vibration, all it achieves is more noise apparently.
So there you go check, check and check again. :rolleyes
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As a rough guide, on the centre stand, if the chain can nearly hit the rubber guide on the bottom of the swinging arm, that's about right,,,
Yes, chain tension can be a bugger!
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My odd noise had disappeared since I loosened up the chain tension.happy days
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Saves the gear box bearings too :)
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Double checked my lola and all is well, thank god!!!!