old - Fazer Owners Club - old
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: philshaq on 04 November 2012, 09:17:52 pm
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hi all,
noticed that since adjusting the chain for the first time since owning, (it was very slack, about 10cm of play), that there is a strange clunking coming from near the front sprocket, it only seems to do it on pulling off / at slow engine speeds (or its too loud at speed to hear it).
Any suggestions on what it could be? I checked the chain again today and it needed adjusting, so thats going to need changing, I'm just hoping the clunking isn't anything serious. Is there a bearing on the sprocket that could have gone?!
Thanks for your comments
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there's bearings in the wheel that could be gone but it could also be a tight spot in the chain. can you feel the clunk through the foot peg?
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I had a tight spot on one link of my chain that i couldn't free up, so as the chain was still in reasonably good nick i got that link replaced, but that caused a clunking feeling. You can normally see a tight link as they seize up at a slightly offset angle compared to the good links.
Also worth checking that your rear wheel is aligned properly, check that the notches are exactly the same either side otherwise you'll wear the chain out rather sharpish!
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Replace the chain and sprockets, you do not replace a link on a worn chain especially if it was seized. Did you ever see the damage done on a fazer after breaking a chain at speed? It is a lot chaeper to replace the chain and sprockets
The chain may be to tight, a common problem on the Fazer. The free play is 30 to 45mm. A simple check is with the bike on the main stand. check if the tightest part of the chain will just touch the rubbery plastic swinging protector, if not it is to tight.
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A clunking chain can be caused by lack of chain oil/lubricant. Try running some oil along it to get inside the X/O ring links, may get rid of the noise and slow down the wear rate. I wouldn't change the chain untill you can't get the rear wheel any further back on the swing arm adjusters.
Cheers, BozBoz :)
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@unfazed, my chain wasn't really worn at all, it had low mileage on it in fact and is a heavy duty gold X ring chain.
It was when we had the monsoon season, or British Summer as it's better known as, and as my bike was always outside it was stripped of lubricant in just the one link.
I wouldn't hesitate to change it if it was worn!
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If one link was seized you can bet the clunking is from other links in trouble also, highly unlikely it affected just one link. Might be a good idea to invest in a good quality bike cover, it will at least stop the chain being washed clean. you may need to grease it more regularily and maybe invest in chain oiler. If I had a chain in that condition I would change it regardless of how worn it was.
How many miles on the front sprocket as a worn one of these can cause funny clunking sounds also. after 10000 miles most fazer front sprockets are well worn.
As for Bozboz comment on changing chains, the adjusters are there as a guide and the correct method of determining if a chain is worn is to try lifting it off the sprocket. Worn chains can slip off the edge of the sprocket as the correct adjustments is on the tightest part of the chain which can leave the chain very loose.
Believe me in 40 years of riding bikes and sevicing many with my mechanic friend it never ceases to amaze me what riders believe and do.
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If one link was seized you can bet the clunking is from other links in trouble also, highly unlikely it affected just one link. Might be a good idea to invest in a good quality bike cover, it will at least stop the chain being washed clean. you may need to grease it more regularily and maybe invest in chain oiler. If I had a chain in that condition I would change it regardless of how worn it was.
How many miles on the front sprocket as a worn one of these can cause funny clunking sounds also. after 10000 miles most fazer front sprockets are well worn.
As for Bozboz comment on changing chains, the adjusters are there as a guide and the correct method of determining if a chain is worn is to try lifting it off the sprocket. Worn chains can slip off the edge of the sprocket as the correct adjustments is on the tightest part of the chain which can leave the chain very loose.
Believe me in 40 years of riding bikes and sevicing many with my mechanic friend it never ceases to amaze me what riders believe and do.
I'm just a tight bastard... ;)
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Guessed as much :lol Penny wise pound foolish :rollin
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@unfazed, Funny that, it was a few months ago i changed the link, and no issues whatsoever, and i've got 25 years riding experience on a daily basis, i ain't no newbie?
As i said before, which you obviously didn't comprehend, it was a very rainy period, shit happens, perhaps that one link missed a good oiling?
When the chain fails, i'll come and haunt you and say you were right, but stop scaremongering people, a lot of folks read this website!!
My link was totally approved and fitted by a mechanic that races bikes himself, if it was a wrong'un he'd have told me outright, but he totally agreed in what i was doing!!
Chain and sprockets were changed at the same time when new, so i'm quite content in what i've done, get over yourself!
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Darrsi, No scaremongering here, sometimes the truth hurts. I just tell it like it is as many others on this site will agree with. If you believe in this mechanic so much why not ask him what the problem is and post his reply?
If you read my post properly I only suggested what your problem might be, solutions to prevent your problem from happening again and what I would do in your situation. I wish you the best and sincerely hope the chain lasts.
At least Bozboz took my reply in good faith as I did his.
Maybe the one to get over it it you.
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If i was racing the bike, by all means i hear where you're coming from, it's a no brainer, but i'm not, so if they're so dangerous why are links even be allowed to be sold?
Every link was checked over very carefully and it was just one link that was sticky, if it was more than one i would've have replaced the whole chain. Since i've done it, no more clunky feeling at all and it all feels and looks in good shape.
As long as they are fitted competently i really don't see an issue on a chain that isn't worn?
I'm one of the fussiest people going where my bike is concerned, and if i thought for one second i was putting myself in danger i simply wouldn't have done it.
In comparison to the chain belonging to Philshaq, which does sound knackered to me, my one is fairly new, but was open to very unusually extreme weather conditions, and even though i lubricated it regularly, one of the links obviously got missed, but fortunately i've clocked it early enough and dealt with it.
It really isn't a big deal in my opinion under my particular circumstances, and when i see some of the other bikes on the road i actually think my chain/bike is treated extremely well.
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thanks for all the replies guys. It looks like there are a number of tight links in the chain. I thought I was oiling it regularly but obviously not enough. Problem is, the bike is in York, I use it daily for commuting to work in York (where I am now) to Leeds.
The links in question appear to be OK from the outside but the inner plate looks a bit red with rust (stupid rookie mistake). Think it will hold up for the remainder of the week?
thanks again
philshaq
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I don't think anyone will really want to commit to answering that question for fear of something going wrong!
If there's a lot of tight links it must feel extremely lumpy, and probably noisy as well if it's rusty?
Out of curiosity what do you oil the chain with?
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Why not just fit a chain oiler. I fitted a scotoiler with the touring reservoir behinf the number plate when I bougth my Fazer new in Nov 2003 and the chain lasted 40,000 mile, my second chain is still in good 33000 miles later. Yes I have 73000 miles on it. The only thing extra I do is replace the front sprocket every 10000 miles for the sake of about a fiver as it wears 3 times faster than the rear sprocket (15 teeth as opposed to 45 teeth)
Darsi, just in reply, single links (soft links to use their proper term) are sold as an extra for joining chains to prevent removing the swinging arm when replacing the chain or where the chain runs through the swinging arm and technically are the weakest link. However I have a replaced my cam chain using a soft link and my own drive chain, the drive chain on my eldest sons Fzs1000 and my youngest sons Fzs400. The link is not the issue but the possible damage internally within the chain that you cannot see. Just keep a closer eye on it much more so than you would a new chain.
I would consider racing at 140 mph a safer place than a motorway full of cars and trucks at 70 mph.
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It took me 45 minutes yesterday to ride 5 miles to work, i've probably got time to watch it as i'm riding it :lol
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I remember photographing a sign on the canals in Skipton a few years ago it said "Slow to 2 Miles per Hour". Someone must have moved it to your route to work. :rollin At least it will give you something to do while sitting in traffic. :lol
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Dont forget about proper chain adjustment and alignment as well as the condition of the chain...
I measure from the swingarm pivot to the axle when aligning the chain, also make sure the axle is tight against the adjusters while tightening the axle bolt, i jam a bar between the chain and rear sprocket to take up any slack while tightening.
Also recheck the slack after tightening because the flex of the swingarm can alter your slack when its fully torqed up..
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Just went through and typed a massive reply and then closed the bloody window by mistake!!
It needs changing definately, its jumping all over, noticed on the way to work this morning and should have turned around but carried on, realised how much it was jumping when coming back tonight so took it steady and its not moving before I get it changed.
Thinking of taking the front sprocket carrier bearing off and changing that as well, thoughts?
I oil it using Castrol chain lube (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002RX8UVE/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9550945749&ref=asc_df_B002RX8UVE) its good stuff, I just haven't kept on top of it and have left the bike uncovered a couple of times the last week which won't of helped.
I'll look into a scotoiler, might have to wait until next payday! Although the torque wrench I've been putting off buying for ages will probably need to be bought before then.
If I get chance and the light is good enough I'll record how much the chain is jumping before I change it so you can all tell me how much of an idiot I am for riding it like that, oh well, all of life's a lesson I guess!!
The main annoyance is that I could change it tomorrow before the light fades if my boss would let me work from home, but for some reason he's not letting me even though its standard practice where I work :\
Thanks as always for your comments. Now need to get to bed, few more hours and the new born will be awake.
Cheers,
Philshaq
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Don't forget to buy the modified 12mm front sprocket nut, rather than the original 9mm one while you're at it, that's if it hasn't already been changed.
It's quite an important mod, and i'm hoping that your clunking has nothing to do with the known problem?
The new part number is 90891-10124, if you phone Fowlers of Bristol up you should get it delivered next day, but make sure you have your chassis number ready to give them.
http://www.fowlers.co.uk/parts/from_fowlers_web.shtml (http://www.fowlers.co.uk/parts/from_fowlers_web.shtml)
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Thinking of taking the front sprocket carrier bearing off and changing that as well, thoughts?
Not possible unless you split the engine as it is held in by a circlip located in the crankcase and outer race of the bearing.
Definitely a new chain and sprockets and as Darrsi says the new 12mm nut kit
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Cheers guys.
When you say known problem what do you mean? Could I find a horror show when I start working on it?
ThAnks for the tip about the bearing. Won't be buying that then! !
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Put "front sprocket nut" in the search box above and fill yer boots.......(exit this page before you search though)
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My chain started to feel rough a few months ago despite regular oiling :o (Spray lube) so I used engine oil and all was well. This prompted me to buy and fit a Scott oiler but after a while I started to feel something again???? Guess who forget to keep the bottle topped up :'( anyway re-filled oiler and once again smooth running so Scott oilers get my vote :D
Andy
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Should not have anything worse than a 6mm wide circular saw blade where the front sprocket should be :rollin
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Right, so I tried the engine oil tip, its worked for all but one link so thanks Andy for the tip. Looks like it had gone slightly too far :(
So back to changing it, which, with it being winter and me not having a garage is going to be a weekend job, so the missus is carless for the rest of the week.
I thought it was bad enough running the chain a bit past its best, but now I have to think about the possibility of no front sprocket nut with nackered threads, joy!
How does the issue manifest itself? The chain is jumping quite significantly still, but watching it when its up on the centre stand it looks like its a stiff link causing the jump but can't be really sure until I see the state of the front sprocket...
I love weekends at the moment, either work on the bike or work on stupid french cars!
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if you've got any doubts about the chain just bin it. the symptoms of a dodgy front sprocket seem to be that it falls off when you're riding :lol
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Don't judge a chain's movement whilst on the centre stand, the rear wheel tries to catch up on itself. 'cos there's no weight load!
If it's iffy you'll feel it bumping on your left foot through the footpeg.
Any lumpiness is a sign of a either a sticky link, offset rear wheel, worn chain/sprockets, or the front sprocket issue.
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Cheers for the tip Darrsi, I'm pretty sure there are some stiff links in there that I can't work out though, its stiff at certain points when I rotate by hand and the chain jumps in one place specifically when on the centre stand.
I've found a decent value DID chain and sprocket kit at BitzforBikes in Rochdale, I'll drive over sat morning and pick it up and will try and fix the sprocket nut for a larger one as well. I'm hoping its not as bad as it could possibly be!
Now I just need to find a chainlink splitter / riveter that doesn't cost the earth / borrow off someone!!
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I've just ordered the sprocket nut from Fowlers. Really helpful, I asked about a chain and sprocket kit from them, nearly fell off my chair! £200 for the original manufacturers part!
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Yeah they mainly sell original parts, very steep.
Same as AJ Sutton, i use they're site a lot because you can browse the parts with prices, then fall off your chair.
I think an original spark plug cap costs about £53 each. :eek That's not even funny! Good website though.
http://www.ajsutton.co.uk/ (http://www.ajsutton.co.uk/)
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hi all,
noticed that since adjusting the chain for the first time since owning, (it was very slack, about 10cm of play), that there is a strange clunking coming from near the front sprocket, it only seems to do it on pulling off / at slow engine speeds (or its too loud at speed to hear it).
Any suggestions on what it could be? I checked the chain again today and it needed adjusting, so thats going to need changing, I'm just hoping the clunking isn't anything serious. Is there a bearing on the sprocket that could have gone?!
Thanks for your comments
I've had a similar problem to this. The initial problem was simply a worn (clicking noise) front sprocket, so I fitted a new DID chain and sprocket set.
However the DID Chain lasted only 5000 miles (original yamaha one did at least 15k) before a tight spot developed, back came the clicking and also a whooping sound around 50mph.
Cue another chain and sprockets and all is ok.
Check the free play all the way round the chain is the same at several points. If you are unable to adjust the chain to the correct setting all the war round, then its time for a new one!
I've been told that if a bike stands for a long time, without the chain moving, these tight spots can develop and ruin the chain.
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I think the trick is to lube a new chain much more often than you would normally think necessary, especially after bad weather, and it'll put a few more miles of life onto it, and also give it a good scrub every now and then as well.
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i had the same problem. horrendous clunking noise at the gearbox end. guys on here suggested changing the chain and sprox but i assumed it wasnt the problem as my chain was in good nick. however, i eventually got my money out and bought a set. what a transformation! i'm assuming the chain had stretched.
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Cheers for all the comments guys, I've just got the larger Nut in the post and will be picking up the chain and sprockets tomorrow. Does anyone know of an easy 'how to' guide?
I'm guessing its as follows;
front sprocket cover and associated gubbins off,
Split the chain and remove,
slacken off the spocket nut (if its still there...!),
remove the rear sprocket,
slacken off and leave loose the chain tensioners,
put new front sprocket on,
put new washer and bigger sprocket nut on (if there is any thread left...!)
put rear sprocket on and tighten in a 2-8-10-4-9-3 (clock face) stylee,
soak chain in motor oil for a couple of hours, pat dry,
feed new chain on,
rivet up (not sure how to do this without a chain riveter?!)
check tension,
adjust and check at several points,
tighten down chain tentioners,
torque up front sprocket and rear sprocket bolts,
put front sprocket cover back on,
torque up cover,
take for a spin and pray that the clunking I was hearing was the duff chain and nothing else!
Anything I've missed / shouldn't be doing?
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Cheers for all the comments guys, I've just got the larger Nut in the post and will be picking up the chain and sprockets tomorrow. Does anyone know of an easy 'how to' guide?
I'm guessing its as follows;
front sprocket cover and associated gubbins off,
Split the chain and remove,
slacken off the spocket nut (if its still there...!),
remove the rear sprocket,
slacken off and leave loose the chain tensioners,
put new front sprocket on,
put new washer and bigger sprocket nut on (if there is any thread left...!)
put rear sprocket on and tighten in a 2-8-10-4-9-3 (clock face) stylee,
soak chain in motor oil for a couple of hours, pat dry,
feed new chain on,
rivet up (not sure how to do this without a chain riveter?!)
check tension,
adjust and check at several points,
tighten down chain tentioners,
torque up front sprocket and rear sprocket bolts,
put front sprocket cover back on,
torque up cover,
take for a spin and pray that the clunking I was hearing was the duff chain and nothing else!
Anything I've missed / shouldn't be doing?
You will need to remove the front sprocket nut before removing the chain...
Get a pal to push the rear brake while you undo the nut..
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If you cannot join the chain or are uncomfortable about doing it then get the local shop to join it for you and remove the swinging arm to replace it. removing the swingin arm is not a difficult job just time consuming. Check out page 7-60 onwards in the service manual. At the end of the day it is only a few more bolts and make sure you put back the thrust covers on either side of the swinging arm if they fall off. Most people can tighten a bolt to the correct torque, but would not have the confidence to join a chain. It will take more time, but compare it to the alternative if the chain is not joined correctly, plus it will give you a chance to inspect the linkage bearing and grease them. When you fit the chain the correct tension is when the chain just touches the swinging arm protector with the bike on the centre stand.
I have found over the years that replacing the front sprocket on a regular basis can double the life of the chain, remember the front sprocket wears 3 times as fast as the rear (15 teeth to 45 teeth). My first chain lasted 40000 miles and 3 front sprockets which cost a total of £21. Many (not all) would have gone through at least 2 chains or more in that mileage.
Shops will tell you to replace all but there is no need. Check if the chain lifts off the rear sprocket more than 5mm at different points around the chain to determine how worn it is, the more it lifts off the more worn it is. My present chain has 33000 miles on it and it still does not lift 5mm off the rear sprocket. I am on the third front sprocket.
There is a lot more profit in a chain and sprockets than a front sprocket.
Good advice there from wezdavo
Good luck on the work.
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I spoke to the local shop and they suggested a split link to get it up to them for them to rivet it. Trouble is no one sells split links for the size of chain that goes on a fazer :(
So I decided to go for the option of riveting it with a hammer and taking it to the local shop for them to check it. Problem was I couldn't get the face plate onto the rivet, mole grips just didn't cut it!
So I caved, went and bought a riveter and riveted it in about 30 min, I didn't go for the swing arm out option as I thought it would be quicker (the missus was waiting around!) and I know its been well looked after before I got my mitts on it!
I ended up spending more time than if I'd have taken the swing arm out, bit of a fail on all accounts really. but at least its sorted now,
Check out the photos, do you thing the rivet is good enough? I didn't want to take it too far and pinch the link together... (the photos are a bit hazy for some reason)
Thanks as always for all the help guys
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NEVER use a split link on a motorbike chain, that's a very big no no......
Actually, my apologies, i just read your post again and have seen that you only wanted it to get the bike to the shop, but that's probably why you can't find one, 'cos it's a wrong'un!
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Why do you think that using a split link is so bad? There is no side load on a chain so a split link isn't that bad. As long as the chain is running straight and adjusted properly it will be fine - in my opinion.
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That's just the point, you said it yourself "..as long as..", what if it isn't running straight, or adjusted properly? You're opening yourself up to unnecessary danger.
Best to always have a chain riveted, especially on bikes that are capable of high speeds.
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Looks very good for a first timer, as long as the rivit end is bigger than the hole it came through it will be fine.
The only problem now is that with the clunking noise gone you will be hearing all the other funny sounds :rollin
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Exactly!
Noticed another noise when I took it out for a test spin before the commute tomorrow.
Just in my head I think...I hope!
Thanks unfazed glad to know I got it right. Fingers crossed!
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oil her up straight away or you'll be back at square one
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You're starting to sound like me, i hear every noise going, which ain't a bad thing i s'pose!
Really funny thing is, when i move my bike at work, without my crash helmet on, i stall it, i just can't get used to the noise difference, yet with the lid on i'm spot on? :rolleyes
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I oiled it up before putting the chain on soaked it in chain lube. Should I have stripped the whitestuff off with paraffin?
I thought I'd leave it on as it looked like it was up to the job...
I had to move my bike the other week with my gear off. Was a bit strange. didnt stall it but corners were strange!
I did used to move the bike from the front of the house to the back without my helmet on...bit cheeky I know...until a copper caught me at it!
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always used split links. not dead yet.
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always used split links. not dead yet.
think a rivet is recommended on anything above 250cc
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I couldn't find a split link for the standard chain on a fazer...
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Wonder if there is a bit of confusion in terms of split link and soft link.
Many use the term split link when they mean soft link because it is split in two.
The link philshaq used is a soft link so called, because the head of the rivit is softer than the body of the rivit to allow flating of the rivit over the side plate.
Split link has a spring clip to hold in the side plate.
Now you know :z
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He was saying before that he was searching for a split link, to get the bike from home to a garage to get the chain properly riveted.
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split link. you just clip them together
(http://www.dirtbikebitz.com/images/products/drive/renthal_link.jpg)
rivet link/soft link
(http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/SSrivetmaster.jpg)
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His dudeness to the rescue with the pictures, good man .A picture tell a thousands words :)
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What i was saying earlier, is that i don't believe it's safe to have an open ended link that could possibly come off on a bike that is capable of 140mph.
It's a no-brainer in my personal opinion........ :rolleyes
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I agree, no one should use one on anything over 25hp. Not worth the risk