old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: smithfz on 29 September 2012, 03:09:21 pm
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If on the off chance you managed to loose your license what would you do? If you are wondering how or you need some context other than you are perfectly fit and you were just done too many times and you are a bike fanatic that'll do but would you still ride?
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get on my mountain bike and shed a few stone.
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not a chance
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get on my mountain bike and shed a few stone.
The same except the bikes a hybrid.
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easy way to sort out a lost licence. simples... http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/NeedANewOrUpdatedLicence/DG_4022085 (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/NeedANewOrUpdatedLicence/DG_4022085)
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:lol
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keep calm and carry on. :)
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No way. As others suggest get into cycling till you get the licence back. You say you are perfectly fit so you should still be able to break the speed limit with very little chance of getting done. Not difficult where I live since they have put 20 limits all over the place ;) .
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OI caretaker you saying the only reason you got a bike is to put of the fact you cant be arsed gettin fit. Rusty... keep Calm. sure . Depends how your self control is...
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would you still ride?
Probably somewhere off road but never on the road.
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plenty other things to keep me busy, mostly fitness based.. may even temp me to buy a decent mountainbike again, Im in an ideal area for that.. could always train up again for another marathon.. halfs and 10k's are no problem..
Budgie
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A good reason to get one of those electric bikes I have been eyeing :rolleyes
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KTM plus loads of others including Cosworth make some very nice machines, 30mph 60 mile range with your feet up plenty more if you assist
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/eurobike-ktm-debut-electric-mountain-bike-and-more-23093/ (http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/eurobike-ktm-debut-electric-mountain-bike-and-more-23093/)
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(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k609/chris-jh/9488C12F-5CEF-4E61-B2B1-5D0EF7880A53-2122-000004A9D0DD34F8.jpg)
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thats cool l'm surprised l've not seen more of those bikes with motors, handy for the hills, mind a cycle in itself are surprisingly expensive and could easily spend thousands on the dam things hhmm that sound familiar.... new seat, lights, tyres lol, mud guards.
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l didnt loose my license l'm asking what you'd do if you lost yours btw.
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I'd pay £5500 to get into work for the year :crazy And probably buy a half decent mountain bike.
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Rusty... keep Calm. sure . Depends how your self control is...
Mine's terrible.... so that's where the 'carry on' bit comes in. Yes folks that's what I mean, were I to be banned then I wouldn't take a blind bit of notice of such a ban. If my vehicle was essential to my work then I would use it regardless. Cue gasps of horror and moral indignation.....
When faced with the choice of unemployment, loss of home and potential bankruptcy, the gamble of driving cautiously but illegally for the period of the ban seems a damned attractive one to me. All of this is hypothetical of course as I work from home, but we aren't exactly dealing with a level playing field out there are we. Where's Chris Huhne for example? Still has his license yet doesn't he. Same goes for umpteen high profile cases that have used their influence to swing it for them, so I'm f*cked if I'd lose everything on the call of a magistrate simply because I don't have such influence.
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not necessarily, you could maybe use the some of the high profile get-offs as legal precedent as they always play "need the car to do my job" card and usually get away with it.
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It doesn't work. I was jailed in 1998 for an 'offence' that doesn't ordinarily carry a custodial sentence. The week before this happened Vinnie Jones had been fined peanuts and set free for a much greater degree of the same offence, that of section 18 which does carry such a sentence. I mentioned this anomaly to my own barrister who looked straight at me, smiled, and said;
"Ah, but your not Vinnie Jones"
Several weeks after my imprisonment a 'Lord' somebody or other was involved in exactly the same scenario as I had been. Not only did he not receive a custodial sentence, but the whole case simply 'disappeared', never to be mentioned by the media again. Judges are human beings. Human beings are open to influence, be it by the media, masonic, or the behind the scenes manipulation of government agencies. This being so I accept no judgement as impartial, if it wouldn't happen to Tony Blair then it shouldn't happen to us.
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Fair do's
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l'd be with rusty. btw does asking for permission to drive a car (driving license) and "submitting"your car registration - under there rules (which is why you can get done under there rules) so what happens when you dont sign up and register your car and apply for a driving license and drive your private vehicle or is that idea too "out there" or l'm i reading too much into it l'm just pissed off at the meaning of some words like -
Registration, submitting and license
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I think what you are referring to there grumpe1 is the old FMOTL perspective whereby registering something is seen as handing over the rights to it. (which in a way it is) It's difficult to it sum up in few words but here goes.
There are two systems of law in England, common law and statute law. Common law is the mainstay, as statute law is susceptible to tampering by politicians in order to further a political agenda. For this reason statute law is open to abuse and is not always just. On the other hand Common law stands eternally, it can't be altered.
Basically the premise hinges on the fact that we are a nation governed not by force but by consent, and that individual consent can be withdrawn. If one were to withdraw the consent to be governed then you exist only under common law. This means that you reject statutory law which exists beside common law. Statutes are not Law, they are legislation, "acts of parliament given the force of law by the consent of the governed". You consent to be governed in many ways, most of which your average Joe knows nothing about so is unaware of, which is why statutes are for him - law.
Therefore the theory is that if that consent is withdrawn those acts cease to be law applicable to the individual that has withdrawn it. In reality it would be very difficult to pull this off, but in Law it is a recognised position, as common law is the law of the land over and above statuatory law. The courts dislike this knowledge being in the public domain however as it diminishes their authority.
The reason is simple; Common law applies equally to all regardless of wealth or favour, whereas statute law is made by politicians and is therefore open to bias. It's simply a question of preventing bad laws from being enforced. For example under the English bill of rights of 1689 it states; http://www.constitution.org/eng/eng_bor.htm (http://www.constitution.org/eng/eng_bor.htm)
"That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void".
Understand the implications of that. It means that all parking, speeding, littering, or any other form of 'automatic' fine levied against you without a prior trial to determine guilt are illegal. :)
Perhaps you now begin to see why much menacing, threats, and huffing and puffing is done by the state and it's various organs to control this sort of revelation. Put simply - We're all being taken for a ride.
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Double post for some reason - now edited out. :)
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aahh cheers RUSTY lve heard of this before l'd been looking into legal language. ta
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The study of legal language means your on the right track. Legal language is not the same as the common English language, inasmuch as a word that means one thing to us has an entirely different meaning in legalese. ;)
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Yea l'm starting to come across that. :)
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KTM plus loads of others including Cosworth make some very nice machines, 30mph 60 mile range with your feet up plenty more if you assist
[url]http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/eurobike-ktm-debut-electric-mountain-bike-and-more-23093/[/url] ([url]http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/eurobike-ktm-debut-electric-mountain-bike-and-more-23093/[/url])
If it'll do 30MPH with your feet up it won't be legal in the UK, well not as an electric pushbike anyway, it'll need all the same stuff as any other motor vehicle - reg plate, insurance, LICENCE... :)
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Understand the implications of that. It means that all parking, speeding, littering, or any other form of 'automatic' fine levied against you without a prior trial to determine guilt are illegal. :)
They're not an automatic fine. They are essentially a confession that you sign and post back along with a cheque, if you've confessed what need is there for a trial? If you dispute it then take it to court.
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Exactly. Your signature is yours alone, it is your property and cannot lawfully be extracted under duress. That is the principle.
Far better to ask for a trial by your peers as is your right. Do you really believe that if everyone opted to refuse to give away their signature the courts could arrange trial by jury for everyone? A court case for every litter fine, parking fine, dog mess or speeding fine? The administration alone would cost more than the revenue from the so called offences. It's a con, a giant ponzi scheme perpetrated on the gullible.
The law works both ways, without principle it fails to be coherent and loses all validity.
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It's not being 'extracted under duress'... there's nothing forcing you to sign it at all. If you get a speeding ticket and object to signing it then just take it to court. If you're innocent then there won't be any evidence surely? If you're guilty then the £60/3 points is a quick way of dealing with it without the time/expense of taking it all through court.
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This is about to become a john Harris love in. I'll just get lizard people mentioned before anyone else gets a chance
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This is about to become a john Harris love in. I'll just get lizard people mentioned before anyone else gets a chance
Nowt to do with John Harris or anyone else TB, it's about the right to stand up for yourself. Facts are facts, law is law. If law is based on principle that principle cannot waver can it? Therefore the law can work for you, or against you, it's just a question of harnessing it in your favour. Introducing talk of lizards or other silliness doesn't detract from the principle.
It's not being 'extracted under duress'... there's nothing forcing you to sign it at all. If you get a speeding ticket and object to signing it then just take it to court. If you're innocent then there won't be any evidence surely? If you're guilty then the £60/3 points is a quick way of dealing with it without the time/expense of taking it all through court.
Which is why I believe that no one should sign anything - let them bring it to court. Let me ask you who benefits from the quick 'confession'? Certainly not the individual being processed.
In recent times there have been cases of pensioners being fined for having their dustbin lids open 1 inch too high, another pensioner who dropped a ten pound note while exiting a newsagents was fined for littering, hearses with coffins have been booked for transgressing yellow lines, and all other forms of lunacy.
Each of those fines was imposed without any compunction to be sensible on the part of the person issuing them, and often as not were upheld upon appeal by local authority. My point is that when told to 'sign here' by a Policeman or any other person how many individuals actually know they are perfectly within their rights to refuse to do so? The law exists not to persecute but to protect, and far too many citizens are unaware of their own rights to defend themselves against such tin pot tyranny by using that same law in defence.
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Which is why I believe that no one should sign anything - let them bring it to court. Let me ask you who benefits from the quick 'confession'? Certainly not the individual being processed.
In recent times there have been cases of pensioners being fined for having their dustbin lids open 1 inch too high, another pensioner who dropped a ten pound note while exiting a newsagents was fined for littering, hearses with coffins have been booked for transgressing yellow lines, and all other forms of lunacy.
Each of those fines was imposed without any compunction to be sensible on the part of the person issuing them, and often as not were upheld upon appeal by local authority. My point is that when told to 'sign here' by a Policeman or any other person how many individuals actually know they are perfectly within their rights to refuse to do so? The law exists not to persecute but to protect, and far too many citizens are unaware of their own rights to defend themselves against such tin pot tyranny by using that same law in defence.
In those cases I agree with you, but then speeding, littering etc can and do affect other people. Bins being open by an inch etc is just retarded and whoever dreams up stuff like that should be given a kicking.
As for who benefits... if I get caught speeding and the choice is a) sign paper, £60 and 3 points, or b) don't sign, go to court, day off work, £60+, 3+ points, court costs... I know what I'd do.
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Rusty, don't get me wrong, I agree. Except with the notion silliness about the lizard people.
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And Sean, please have the admin whizzes change that daft name over. You're anything but grumpe
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As for who benefits... if I get caught speeding and the choice is a) sign paper, £60 and 3 points, or b) don't sign, go to court, day off work, £60+, 3+ points, court costs... I know what I'd do.
I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that I'm some sort of political anarchist, I just like to stand up for myself. :) I'll give you a real life example from personal experience.
In 1984 I was shopping at Asda and came out to find the back lights of my car smashed and the car dented. A couple had seen the person responsible, gave me their details as witnesses and the offenders reg no. My wife then convinced me to report it to the Police. I went to the local station, told them the tale and gave them the witness details. I was told that as it happened on Asda car park which is private land they could do nothing. (I now know this to be incorrect) What they did do however, was to go outside and inspect my car, then give me a 'producer' to produce my documents, even though I was not at fault.
Sods law came into play and on getting out my documents I found my MOT had expired three days earlier! I was therefore booked for having no MOT. :\
When the summons came the charges were having no MOT, and having no insurance. Even though I had insurance and had shown them the certificate. I contacted the Police who told me that the charges still stood, I contacted the CPS who also told me the charges stood, so I elected to go to court. I pleaded guilty by letter to no MOT.
The court case happened to fall on Wednesday, my day off from work. Representing myself I went along with my documents and the prosecution put forward their case. I pleaded guilty to no MOT as I had done by letter, with mitigation that it was an oversight that was corrected immediately upon coming to my knowledge. To the charge of no insurance I simply produced my certificate. The magistrate found no case to answer for insurance, and fined me £15.00 for having no MOT.
He asked me how I wished to pay and I said I would pay immediately and in full. But before I do we must discuss the matter of my loss of earnings in attending court to provide evidence of my having insurance. The MOT I had pleaded guilty by letter, so the sole purpose of the court case was to determine if I had insurance or not - which I had. And not only had I insurance, but had produced it to the Police. Having to subsequently attend court had cost me a day off work I told them, and that constituted at that time a £35.00 loss.
I was awarded the £35 costs, which means that they paid the fine and I made a £20.00 profit for attending court on my day off. :) That is the point I'm trying to get across, it's up to the individual to know the law and use it for their own protection, it doesn't exist so that incompetent fools can fleece you.
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Double post
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Blimey Rusty - you've just admitted to defrauding the Courts as well :lol
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I agree with you completely, but the two cases are different. You were wrongly accused of something and not only could the prosecution not prove that you'd done it (driven with no insurance) but you had proof that you were covered. As with the MOT though, you pleaded guilty by post presumably as it was the easiest/cheapest/quickest way of doing it. Had you turned up in court for that you would've had the same result but costs on top.
My point being that if you have done something then it's probably cheaper, quicker and easier to take the fixed penalty rather than fight it and get done for it anyway.
Bit of a result ending up £20 in pocket though :lol
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all i can say is if I lost my licence I would be stuffed!!!
i have 3 points for using a mobile May 2011 (guilty as charged! )
3 points for speeding (43 in 30 limit) Guilty even though I didn't know it limit had changed from 40 to 30 600 meters down the road (March 12)
then in april 12 I got done for speeding on A303 doing 81 in national speed limit (guiltyagain!) however that would've taken me to 9 points and the next 3 would've seen me automatiaclly banned!!) so to the Driver awareness course (as discussed in another thread) so points remain at 6
and am now driving very cautiously!!
bike laid up til next year but will still have to be careful til may 2014!
dropping my speed has added a bit of extra time ( 5 mins going to work & 15/20 mins driving home at weekends) however I have increase my MPG from 50 to 65+ in my cage so I am actually saving money and not getting half as stressed as I was before!!
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Can you get a license in another country like ireland ?
http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/home/index.asp (http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/home/index.asp)
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Blimey Rusty - you've just admitted to defrauding the Courts as well :lol
Yes I know, and I haven't the slightest concern about that, for who's going to testify against me...Me? :lol
Anyway, I take the view that in the two highest houses of our land, there are people who address each other as 'Honourable' and 'Right honourable' members that are guilty of far greater fraud on a daily basis. And often the cost of their deceit are not only expenses fiddled but millions of innocent lives lost. I don't think my twenty quid really ranks up there with that.
Lawrence that example was back in the days when I was innocent in all senses of the word. I had the attitude (and still do) that if I have done wrong then fair enough I'll pay the price. What has transpired since then has been the creeping authoritarianism we see today, where innocents (politically) are browbeaten into filling the coffers. I no longer feel I have a say in how my country is run, by whom, and to what ends, which is why I pretty much see to myself and reject the silliness and tyranny of the automatons.
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Can you get a license in another country like ireland ?
[url]http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/home/index.asp[/url] ([url]http://www.dvtani.gov.uk/home/index.asp[/url])
No.
If you've been banned in this country you've been banned from driving on the UK roads period, it doesn't matter if you have any number of valid driving licences issued by other countries you're still banned.
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Rusty, I agree completely with your last post. If we meekly act(fail to act) like sheep those elected & non-elected "honourable gentlemen" will continue to shaft us at every opportunity. The last time I voted the b******s sold me and the rest like me out to the tories. "Democracy" in action!. Historically those in power maintained their position by keeping the masses in ignorance..dont see that anythings changed since. To stand by and watch is to be guilty by acquiescence/appeasement in my opinion. We "enjoy" precious few freedoms now so dont just sit back & pretend everything is rosy. :eek
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It's gone beyond that Dave. I, like millions of others voted for Blair's Labour in '97 because we saw he had the real opportunity to create a new and fairer society. He had the country behind him, and a spirit of optimism prevailed. - So look what happened. :\
What was done to us wasn't done through incompetence, it's part of the agenda. We should forget all this Tory vs Labour divisionist type thinking - that belongs to the 20th century. Today people need to recognise that although Political parties might say different things, whoever is in office then furthers the same agenda by what they do. That is by moving toward the centralisation of power, corporate involvement in policy making, and (engineered) unrest at home and abroad in order to increase the power of the state by ever tighter control.
There comes a point when people become apathetic regarding politics, saying 'it's boring' or some other excuse for their lack of involvement, but I really believe that anyone who has children or grandchildren should be very interested in politics, because it's no longer your own future you are fighting for, but theirs.
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In 1997 my eldest son was ecstatic @ New Labours victory ( he was just 16 & becoming politically aware) I told him then not to be too disappointed when the mood of optimism passed. I grew up in the 60s & there was a genuine feeling that we could make the world a better place but of course we ended up disillusioned. When I cast my vote for the Libs I knew deep down it wouldnt make the slightest difference since the power behind the politics is the global marketplace and in the pursuit of power the ends always justifies the means.
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Precisely, how pleased I am to hear from someone who 'gets it'. :)
I find it incredible that many consider politics to be something that is pretty much undertaken by others on their behalf. They openly admit that they mistrust politicians, yet put their own and their children's future in the hands of those very people - It's madness! Slowly though people are waking up to the fact that as a nation we're all being diddled. I've given up trying to convince people of it, all I ask now is that they look around for themselves and ask for explanations as to why things are like they are today, in the fourth richest nation on the planet!
To quote Schopenhauer:
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
George Carlin ~ The American Dream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q#ws)
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Schopenhauer was a fucking mental case who believed women were innately servile and whose mentalist views were a major influence on Nietzsche, and was in vogue in Germany in the earlier part of the 20th Century.
Refutation of statutory law is one of those arguments mentalists who scream they can't be arrested because of the Magna Carta use.
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Oops! Perhaps Schopenhauers truth theory has already reached the second stage. :lol
Well thank you for the potted history lesson breadlord but we could have googled that for ourselves. I'm not sure what those comments are meant to add to the discussion though? You don't say if you believe the refutation of statute law has any basis in Common law? Is it valid? Or even how you know this? Forget Schopenhauer, what is your evaluation of the question? Surely you would know if you are qualified to make such bold statements, or are you prepared to condemn people as 'mentalists' without even looking into the facts? Please tell us what you know so we can all go check what you say against cold empirical evidence. :)
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This is about to become a john Harris love in. I'll just get lizard people mentioned before anyone else gets a chance
I mentioned the lizard people once, but I think I got away with it. :eek
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(http://dungheap.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/lizard.jpg)
Don't matter if its the Lizard people or the f*ckin Village people - they're all just different states of mind. :lol If the Triune brain theory is correct then we're all 'Lizard people', all you need to qualify is a to own a brain.....
(http://southpawbeagle.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/villagepeople-1.jpg)
Ok that let's these guys off the hook then. :lol
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Oops! Perhaps Schopenhauers truth theory has already reached the second stage. :lol
Well thank you for the potted history lesson breadlord but we could have googled that for ourselves. I'm not sure what those comments are meant to add to the discussion though? You don't say if you believe the refutation of statute law has any basis in Common law? Is it valid? Or even how you know this? Forget Schopenhauer, what is your evaluation of the question? Surely you would know if you are qualified to make such bold statements, or are you prepared to condemn people as 'mentalists' without even looking into the facts? Please tell us what you know so we can all go check what you say against cold empirical evidence. :)
Right then, here we go...
I am well aware of the arguments you're spouting off. I've been involved with the occupy movement, and anti-Tory groups in general, and this dreck was pushed at a lot of us. Most of us however, aren't conspiracy nuts. We just want to see people pay what they owe.
The position you are espousing is that of the "Freemen on the land", a libertarian group who consider statutory law to be a series of contracts that can be opted out of by speaking the right words - if you send a cheque for a pound on a £2,000 bill it should clear the whole thing if you write "In full and final settlement". That kind of thing.
Essentially, the argument goes that statutory law, that is, law that is codified is merely a contract, and that you can hack your way through the system, right? Common law, or case law is meant to be the only real law that applies to a person, and not a legal entity joined to them. Generally this takes the form of invoking 61st clause of the Magna Carta. This gave the barons the right to usurp the king's power. But it only applied for three months and was repealed by the only entity who could judge a king at the time, the Pope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta#Clause_61 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta#Clause_61)
However, if it's the case that common law can override the statutory, then surely court, the common law body should recognise them, right?
Errr. No. The case law supports the opposite. Every time someone tries to invoke freeman arguments they get shot the fuck down. Here's just a couple of hilarious examples:
http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/9918044.Jail_for_man_who_refused__to_be_governed_/ (http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/9918044.Jail_for_man_who_refused__to_be_governed_/)
http://www.scotsman.com/news/freemen-are-told-they-will-be-tried-1-1523844 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/freemen-are-told-they-will-be-tried-1-1523844)
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2011/B15.html (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2011/B15.html)
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/a-person-is-a-person-b-c-judge-rules-1.524099 (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/a-person-is-a-person-b-c-judge-rules-1.524099)
In all cases, it's some deluded twat who gets caught doing something, then uses pseudolaw to bullshit their way out of it. It doesn't work. Ever.
Frankly, what seems to have happened here is that you committed ABH and were jailed for it. You weren't afforded the same treatment as others having committed the same crime, for which it is a sensible thing to be pissed about. However, you have since concluded that the government has no right to have tried you, not that rich people have an advantage. This might be all balled up with hate for fucking Thatcher, which is also a fine thing in itself.
Feel free to tell me that the UK is under maritime law.
Or that I can avoid speeding tickets by referring to myself as "Tom, of the family Bradshaw" as it dissociates me from my legal Strawman
Or that the meaning of words used in legal documents can be twisted to mean anything at all.
NONE of what you have said is true
It is ALL angry armchair politics
There is no global conspiracy designed to keep us in serfdom
I don't know you, you could be a top lad, but this kind of thing is mental, and beneath you.
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I don't know you, you could be a top lad, but this kind of thing is mental, and beneath you.
Ah now we're getting somewhere. :)
Firstly, your correct in that you don't know me, nor anything about the circumstances I referred to. All you believe you know is based on assumption, without having the facts. I'd like to point out that the mention of the freeman on the land scenario wasn't something I was 'spouting off', or even espousing, it was a point of view held by some that I explained in response to a question asked.
I find it amusing that you cheer-lead your involvement with the pseudo socialist 'occupy group', who were originally thrown off land near the stock exchange only to take refuge under the jurisdiction of the church, which was itself only possible by taking advantage of an institution possessed of rights older than the statutes used to shift you there. So it appears the claimed knowledge you have of the law was insufficient to protect you from that? Your subsequent retreat to the sanctity of church grounds thus akin to running home to mummy.
You are obviously quite prepared to spatter everyone who disagrees with your Marxist point of view with titles like 'mentalists' 'nuts' 'twats' and similar insults, while failing to see that the majority of the general public conceived Occupy as a bunch of tiresome hippy twats with no work to go to.
However, you have since concluded that the government has no right to have tried you, not that rich people have an advantage. This might be all balled up with hate for fucking Thatcher, which is also a fine thing in itself.
At no point have I said this? Again it is an assumption you have made, and from your obvious bile filled hatred for a political leader that has been out of office for twenty fucking years (get over it) I might be tempted make an assumption of my own - that you're plainly out of touch with reality, and quite possibly a middle class boy full of self loathing for the benefits you have had while playing the revolutionary to square the circle. To paraphrase, I don't know you, you could be a top lad, but this is beneath you.
It is true that some poor 'deluded twats' as you call them, attempt to challenge statute law and repeatedly come worse off, and the reason for this is that they are deluded twats who are bound to fail through their lack of knowledge. This does not prove as you state that the premise of their argument is incorrect, just that they themselves have insufficient knowledge of it. Roger Hayes is not such a person, and when dealing with people like Roger, people who DO know the law and it's associated implications this is what they do.
http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/roger-hayes-arrested-tried-secret-court-imprisoned (http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/roger-hayes-arrested-tried-secret-court-imprisoned)
I won't go into a tedious list of links to prove my point, I don't need to as the one above is the reality, and an indication of how 'the law' is selectively adhered to. My point is and has been that you cannot have a law that applies only in certain circumstances to certain individuals. There is either due process in law or there isn't, what has freeman ideology or anything else got to do with that?
NONE of what you have said is true
This is because you say so I take it? :rolleyes
There is no global conspiracy designed to keep us inserfdom
Then what the fuck were you doing cluttering up (and littering) the concourse of Saint Pauls ? Now let's all stand for a rousing chorus of 'The Internationale'. :z
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Sorry, but I do know who Hayes is. He went to jail because her invoked clause 61 of the Magna Carta as a 'Tax Protest', which isn't valid.
The only references to him being disappeared are on freemen blogs.
Surely if he, like you pretend to, knew his way around the law, he wouldn't have gone to prison? Or is that just me?
It amuses me that you drop to the language of class-warfare to put yourself above any argument. I also find it amusing that you haven't posted any source documents, as we're both aware they're just going to be links to articles written inline by idiotic freemen.
You're a tool. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Surely if he, like you pretend to, knew his way around the law, he wouldn't have gone to prison? Or is that just me?
Err... It's just you. You are selectively denying actual events because they don't fit in with your point of view. Due process was ignored, therefore his arrest and detention were illegal. Not under any 'freeman' concept of the law, but under any understanding of it whatsoever.
You're a tool. You don't know what you're talking about.
Thanks for that. Is that another case of 'because you say so'? :)
I’ll begin this reply by thanking the moderators of this site for their restraint, thus allowing a free and fair exchange of opinions to ensue. Well done chaps I tip my hat to you. I’m not sure this subject is of any interest to fellow forum members, but I feel it is their right to know.
When I read breadlord’s initial post I was reminded of a child who shouts in an empty building just to hear the reflected sound.. The post said nothing, but said it loudly. It appeared to be delivered in the belief that the more expletive ridden venom it spewed forth the more profound was the truth it claimed.
The reality is there are political forces at work today that many do not comprehend, in fact they are beyond our understanding. Secrets are being kept that if released would cause a total paradigm shift. The old divisions of class war, race, or religion have now become irrelevant. I care not whether you are a posh boy from Eton, a former council estate lad like myself, a Hindu Sikh or the grand Mufti of Timbuk-fecking-Too, we will all fall victim to the coming agenda.
It is usual when confronted with an uncomfortable truth for people to ridicule or explain it away. It’s what people do, it makes them feel safe. Mentalist? Deluded twat? Conspiracy theorist? All much the same response received by the people of Liverpool regarding Hillsborough, the investigators of Watergate, or the family of our own Dr. David Kelly. I find it sad that well intentioned folk become embroiled in pointless divisionism, many are young and idealistic but they become pawns in the game, perpetuating a 19th century schism into the 21st century. They are the ‘useful Idiots’ Karl Marx referred to.
Breadlord’s subsequent post contained nothing that displayed an understanding of the situation any deeper than a five minute ‘Google’ could provide, the truth is that far from there being a conspiracy merely to keep us in serfdom, the reality much much worse. “So how do you know Rusty?” I hear you ask, and the answer is that while much of the truth is hidden, much is also hidden in plain sight.
Here’s how it works. Many people are claiming for example to have seen UFO’s.
Nut jobs obviously, let’s ridicule and laugh at them for they are obviously the ‘deluded twats’ of breadlord’s post. They claim to see strange triangular craft that perform silent manouvres beyond the capability of known technology, no doubt also piloted by little green men ha ha ha?
So how many of you have heard of the TR-3B? A secret military craft that has existed since the mid 1980’s, which uses a silent propulsion system based on field technology. It flies by manipulation of the gravitational force of the earth. A hoax? Unfortunately not, and they are currently being sighted over Syria. So if you were one of those that thought the American B2 wing or F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter was at the cutting edge of military technology then you’re in for a rude awakening - This was cutting edge…. 25 years ago! Here’s one.
(http://www.listrocket.com/ktml2/user/1241_M837Hca3MN/images/uploads/1241_z8ihoiwKPI9p9l5GoiAk_files/image009.png)

Here’s one in flight. [size=78%]Amazing triangle UFO Oregon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUi8NJIcMKk#ws)[/size]
Still think there’s little green men in there? Or is ridicule deliberately encouraged to discredit witnesses because the government’s not telling you something? Ok, anyone wonder why the global weather has had so many so called ‘extreme weather events’ recently? Climate change? Well yes the climate is changing because it’s also being manipulated by something called HAARP technology which was built by BAE systems.
What HAARP does is to send concentrated microwaves up into the Earths Ionisphere manipulating same and thus changing weather patterns. It can also be used to cause earthquakes or precipitate volcanic eruptions. It was developed as a weapon. Natural earthquakes have pulse waves, those caused by HAARP have none. Too far fetched? Unbelievable? Well the EU don’t think so as they are rather worried about it’s use.
Here you go, scroll down to article 24.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/pv2/pv2?PRG=DOCPV&APP=PV2&DATE=280199&DATEF=990128&TPV=DEF&TYPEF=A4&POS=1&SDOCTA=8&TXTLST=1&Type_Doc=RESOL&PrgPrev=TYPEF@A4|PRG@QUERY|APP@PV2|FILE@BIBLIO99|NUMERO@5|YEAR@99|PLAGE@1&LANGUE=EN (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/pv2/pv2?PRG=DOCPV&APP=PV2&DATE=280199&DATEF=990128&TPV=DEF&TYPEF=A4&POS=1&SDOCTA=8&TXTLST=1&Type_Doc=RESOL&PrgPrev=TYPEF@A4|PRG@QUERY|APP@PV2|FILE@BIBLIO99|NUMERO@5|YEAR@99|PLAGE@1&LANGUE=EN)
Your local Euro MP forgotten to inform you of all this? Well, probably an oversight on his part eh? It’s nothing new though, HAARP has been around since the 1990’s when… hey…. funilly enough the weather started changing. Unlike others I don’t simply proclaim this to be so, I just inform you of the facts and give you the knowledge to investigate and reach your own conclusions.
It’s nothing new, just a continuation of the first experiments from 1952 project Cumulous.
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/philip-eden/Lynmouth-Flood-man-made.htm (http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/philip-eden/Lynmouth-Flood-man-made.htm)
My point is there are far more things to heaven and earth than we the public are being informed of. Disinformation, talk of lizard people, or 'deluded twat' type smears are grist to the mill for the agencies that are manipulating world events to suit their agenda. It’s what they want.
Ask yourselves why you didn’t know there was a machine that can manipulate the weather? And why was it built? Ask yourself do you trust our politicians to act in YOUR best interest - or theirs? Whatever you take from this just start asking questions, and don’t take the word of those who smugly console you with assurances that everything is alright with as much sincerity as Arthur Daley selling a used motor.
Apparently I'm a tool. And I know nothing. Despite my not appearing on any register, electoral roll or official document. Despite having sources that actually worked on this technology, one or two of whom I might add are now dead for revealing what they knew. So tool or not maybe.... just maybe, I may have opened a few eyes. ;)
Thank you - make your own minds up I'll shut up now! :lol
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Ask yourselves why you didn’t know there was a machine that can manipulate the weather? And why was it built? Ask yourself do you trust our politicians to act in YOUR best interest - or theirs? Whatever you take from this just start asking questions, and don’t take the word of those who smugly console you with assurances that everything is alright with as much sincerity as Arthur Daley selling a used motor.
There was outcry in this country when it was announced that VAT was going to be charged on Cornish pasties. If it was announced officially that the government (or another government) was controlling the weather half the country's heads would explode.
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Am thoroughly enjoying this Frank and free exchange of views - long may it continue :))
Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
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Am thoroughly enjoying this Frank and free exchange of views - long may it continue :))
Me too (pass the popcorn, would you?) ;)
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Ask yourselves why you didn’t know there was a machine that can manipulate the weather? And why was it built? Ask yourself do you trust our politicians to act in YOUR best interest - or theirs? Whatever you take from this just start asking questions, and don’t take the word of those who smugly console you with assurances that everything is alright with as much sincerity as Arthur Daley selling a used motor.
There was outcry in this country when it was announced that VAT was going to be charged on Cornish pasties. If it was announced officially that the government (or another government) was controlling the weather half the country's heads would explode.
The problem being?
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Ask yourselves why you didn’t know there was a machine that can manipulate the weather? And why was it built? Ask yourself do you trust our politicians to act in YOUR best interest - or theirs? Whatever you take from this just start asking questions, and don’t take the word of those who smugly console you with assurances that everything is alright with as much sincerity as Arthur Daley selling a used motor.
There was outcry in this country when it was announced that VAT was going to be charged on Cornish pasties. If it was announced officially that the government (or another government) was controlling the weather half the country's heads would explode.
The problem being?
Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing :lol
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surely a wheat/chaff scenario
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Oh shit, Rusty (Of the family Starfish), you've done it now.
There are probably secret government assassins coming after each and every one of us now that you've pulled the wool from our eyes.
DEAR GOD, NO, DON'T USE THE WEATHER CONTROL MACHINE
THE ONE THAT DOESN'T WORK ON SNOWBOUND AIRPORTS, OR THE RAIN OVER THE OLYMPICS
IT'S IN THE BOX NEXT TO THE GRAVITY WAVE PROPULSION UNITS
AND OVER THE WAY FROM THE SECRET GOVERNMENT PRISON CELLS
I originally thought you were just a misguided libertarian, but shit. It turns out you're some kind of underground freedom fighter.
Who works within the confines of common law.
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i would have contributed to this thread, but i was too busy eating crisps.
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:lol
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so if i lost my license I cant fly a plane or ufo or be the one in charge of of the weather machine?
damn better keep my speed down!! :rollin :lol :rollin
I will be the first to put my hand up & say I dont understand politics like I dont understand lots of things, like engines and medicine but I am quite happy to let those people that do carry on.
but isn't it great that we live in a country / society where we can have discussions / debates like this one openly and frankly! without fear of reprisals from secret police or the like?!
ok so Rusty & Breadlord might not see eye to eye and would be a great pub / dinner party discusion to watch & listen to if they ever met up.
but as previously stated this is a good exchange of differing points of view by both parties that are passionate and knowledgeable about their side of the coin.
carry on
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Blimey, VNA has a twin who's now also a Foccer :lol :lol :lol
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Oh shit, Rusty (Of the family Starfish), you've done it now.... blah....blah....blah.. snippety snippety snip... ;) I originally thought you were just a misguided libertarian, but shit. It turns out you're some kind of underground freedom fighter.
Breadlord you amuse me. Well actually you surprised me, in that you say you 'thought' which must be a first. Guys? like you are usually followers not thinkers. Predictably it's always some kind of naive quasi-socialistic ideal too, left over from long nights in the Students union bar no doubt. It fades though, all followers get tired in the end. The 1960's were full of idealistic hippies who were going to change the world and where are they now? Well ironically, they're the same people you wasted your time protesting about in St Pauls.
Underground freedom fighter eh? :lol Naw,think of me more in terms of 'an independant nosey bastard that won't be fobbed off' and you're nearer the mark. I see I've made an enemy of you breadlord, and with that in mind do you really think that I would post anything up here that can't be proven? Stroll on lad. Where's your intelligent and incisive critique? Where's your seriously researched counterpoint? I can debate with a five year old who'll come up with starfish and lizard riposte's, in between her crayoning on the wallpaper that is. Come on man raise your game!
Misguided Libertarian? That would be 'misguided' in the sense that I don't agree with you I take it? Well yes and no. I could be described as libertarian in that I think it would be nice if we could all just get along and play nicely in this world, but then some vitriolic ass-hole always comes along, foaming with revolutionary fervour just to spoil it. Don't they breadlord? :)
Maybe I'm not making myself properly understood here? OK bear with me... Minds are like parachutes - they work best when they're open. :lol
The reason I pointed out the so called UFO technology above is this. That type of technology is at least 25 years old, yet be honest unless you were in the military you may be forgiven for thinking that aircraft such as the F-117 stealth fighter are cutting edge. The truth is that cutting edge is what joe public don't know about. What you believe to be cutting edge was revealed to you only because it was obsolete. Even the Lockheed X-22 darkstar is probably obsolete now, and again that is a craft using an electro-magnetic field propulsion system. Such systems are capable of 7000 mph in atmosphere. They were able to hide it from you for so long by using disinformation, ignorance and ridicule. I'll come back to those.
I read somewhere that in automotive technology they are approximately ten years in front. That means that the stuff you see appearing in the showroom today like self parking sensors etc was in R+D ten years or so ago, and it gradually becomes implemented. In the military world that number of years is at least 50, taking around 40 for the kit to filter into the public's perception. A few examples might be fibre optics, the military had those in 1947. Super tensile fabrics which you now know as 'kevlar', again from the 1940's. The printed circuit, laser, night vision glasses, the list goes on.
Ok so what's all this got to do with Politics?
Well I would suggest the link is pretty crucial to the understanding of what's going on, and remember I say suggest here. My aim is to encourage others to look beyond their own noses, not to convince you that I'm right.
At the end of World war two both the Russian and American military raced to capture Nazi scientists. They ended up getting some of each, but the reason they wanted them was to learn the secrets of their advanced technology. Toward the end of the war those guys were working on stuff you wouldn't believe, and the American's captured the best of the bunch. Werner Von Braun is one of the better known ones, responsible for the V1 and V2 vergeltungswaffe they called him the father of rocketry. It was Von Braun amongst others who put America on the moon.
Of greater interest even than Von Braun, was the work of Viktor Schauberger, who invented the Repulsine engine, which is basically a high energy (some say free energy) field density engine capable of use in a flying craft of unconventional appearance. A disk for example. It works on a swirling vorteces principle creating some sort of electro-magnetic thrust. I'm not a scientist remember - just a nosey bastard, so I'm not going to do the work for you - I've already done it. If you'd like to check this out start googling 'Schauberger' or 'Repulsine'.
(http://www.linux-host.org/energy/rollers.gif) [size=78%]
OK, so all this stuff has been in development since at least 1945, hence the 'Flying Saucer' craze and multiple sightings of strange craft from the late '40's onward. People were noticing things in the sky that didn't look right, and were told by the politicians that they were weather balloons, swamp gas or any number of unfeasible explanations. Occasionally one of these craft had an accident, it crashed leaving debris, but more importantly - witnesses. Those witnesses always had a visit from the military telling them to forget what they saw - Or else!
So to protect national security a pattern emerged. Disinformation, ridicule, and ignorance followed by threats, and unfortunately in some cases, more. So here we are in the 21st Century and almost 70 years have passes in which time the military has been quietly developing it's technology. Those of you who have served in the military, the Police, or even in corporate business will know that information is very compartmentalised. You know what your told but that's not as much as the guy higher up. Well Joe Public is at the bottom of that ladder, we're told nothing, even though we're the ones paying for it. Which is why they kept running the space shuttle until recently, to have you believe that that was where we are at technology wise. It was in reality the equivalent of going to space in a model T Ford.
OK, so I have to do a little work now (gasp!) but later I'll mention a couple more projects you may or may not be aware of and then I'll get to the controversial bit of how all this affects you, which ties it all in. So get your popcorn ready, and in the meantime feel free to think of some other aquatic creature to call me. :evil
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Rusty, perhaps you should start another thread where this stuff can be discussed without hijacking :)
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Rusty, perhaps you should start another thread where this stuff can be discussed without hijacking :)
Nah, that would disrupt the flow of a most entertaining discourse! Keep it right here!
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Rusty, what you are is that bloke in the pub whose learnt one argument that sounds clever, so you've been repeating it over and over to show how smart you are while everyone pretends to listen hoping you'll shut the fuck up.
How's that smartness working out for you? Big success? House in the country? Yacht?
You've used Werner Von Braun, whose expertise was chemical rockets, classical mechanics and fluid mechanics and mixed it a big bowl of weird Nazi super scientist weirdness. Toward the end of the war they were filling the noses of V2s with concrete because there wasn't enough explosive available. Which as I'm sure you are aware is not exactly super science.
Nothing you've mentioned exists in the scientific literature. Nothing exists outside of crackpot blogs where everyone reinforces each others beliefs.
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Nothing you've mentioned exists in the scientific literature. Nothing exists outside of crackpot blogs where everyone reinforces each others beliefs.
Now now breadlord, don't go all crusty on me.
I've given some thought to you what you said earlier. 'Underground freedom fighter' eh? .... Hmmmm....I like it! Has a ring to it, sounds kinda cool don't you think? It conjours up images of action man Bruce Willis, struggling to defend Earth from asteroids - while wearing a dirty vest. Although the reality is less glamorous of course, it's just old Rusty struggling with hemorrhoids. I do have a dirty vest though, I spit coffee on it when I saw your limp reply.
However, in true 'freedom fighter' fashion, I went out this afternoon and bought one of those funny plastic Guy Fawkes masks that all true freedom fighters must have. Allthough to be honest as I sit here typing I find the elastic don't half chafe your ears. So, the only part I'm missing now is the 'underground' bit, but then I do live in a bungalow is that near enough?
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/11/15/1321393862765/Occupy-London-activists-007.jpg)
I've been looking at all the good work you folks did during the occupy London thing, quite impressive. Have you noticed how they're trying to twist words these days, those capitalist bastards I mean? They tell you threre are no rich bastards any more, they are 'wealth creators'. Did you notice that? Sneaky buggers the media aren't they, no more capitalist pigs, just wealth creators, makes them like good fairies creating wealth for all.
Anyway I don't think you guys got your due for what you did in front of St Pauls. If the rich can be called wealth creators then I thin you fella's should have been called... er.... 'Job creators'.
Yes that's it - job creators. After all ..... some fucker had to clean up after you'd gone. :lol
Well I'll type the next instalment of my tale tomorrow as I'm watching an invisible cloak on ebay and it's going off soon, wouldn't wanna miss it, I mean - when would you see another?
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/15/article-2159353-139B6D78000005DC-328_964x557.jpg)
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You're a loony. And everyone else knows it. And you know it.
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Most countries look more and more like Orwell's 1984. You don't have a dictator. You have a government that "you chose". So if you don't like, you can vote in 4 years for some others. But they all work the same.
My history teacher used to say that every state is an aparatus that protects the interests of the wealthy (ruling) and keeps the rest of the people in obedience. Some states do it more, some do it less nicely. Since the fall of communism, most capitalist states are less and less well for the working class.
If I lost my licence, I'd ride a bicycle 100% of the time. I do it 90% of the time now (make much more mileage on it, than Fazer and car combined).
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If I lost my licence, I'd still ride :lol just get my burqa out totally unidentifiable, it makes it too easy to just ride around like there is no crime :rollin
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You're a loony. And everyone else knows it. And you know it.
Aw c'mon bready I'm only joshin' you. Lighten up. After all I'm only talking about plans for a coming global fascist government here so nothing too heavy huh? If only you knew it I'm actually trying to help you, but your painting me black without either knowing who I am or anything about my background. I see from your posts that you are a passionate guy and I like that, we may not agree but as with VNA I do respect a fella that has the gumption to stand up and be counted.
So how about we call a truce and I tell you a little more about what I know? Go on... what do you have to lose? I'll even promise to throw away that plastic face mask. (they get kinda sweaty inside don't they?) Besides, look at the view count, there are bunches of guys out there just bursting to hear me spontaneously combust before their very eyes for their entertainment, think of all that wasted popcorn? :)
I'll also tell you a few of the names that gave me this info so you can see just who those 'crackpots' are- they'll surprise you. They won't mind. As I told you some are dead now anyway, and others are so old that they don't give a shit anymore. Those that aren't dead or old are out there bravely telling it like it is so people can know what's coming, and meeting with shit loads of abuse for doing so. So how about it? It's clear you still need a little guidance as a fledgeling revolutionary. For example in your last post you gave me an insight into your character by defining success in material terms - Big House, Yatch etc. Why can't success be measured simply in the good that you do?
You also mentioned the concrete nose in the V2 rocket as being somehow unscientific. I found it odd that when faced with a V2 rocket, which in it's day was an unprecedented technical marvel, and the machine that heralded the age of the ICBM, all you could focus on was the payload. You're not seeing the big picture breadlord, and I'm trying to show it to you.
Slaninar in every post I have read of yours you are the one guy who I feel is able to understand the way things are going. I'd say your history teacher was correct. Now imagine if instead of 'some states do it more some states do it less', those states were to merge in what could be termed a collective. If they did this via financial means first before political, then you would eventually arrive at a point where Earth becomes one giant social collective.
Like I said earlier if people are interested enough I'll post up some more, if not then I won't. It change anything, only by reading they might see it coming when it does, and following another major world event next spring I believe that time is fast approaching.
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You're a loony. And everyone else knows it. And you know it.
For fucks sake Breadlord, if you're going to have a debate with someone at least keep it about the points raised rather than using smokescreen.
Rusty, keep it coming. If necessary I'll start debating you to keep it going, even though I am aware of a lot of this stuff already.
Question though: Do you have any suggestions on how to overcome the impression that we are ants trying to fight a gorilla.
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For fucks sake Breadlord, if you're going to have a debate with someone at least keep it about the points raised rather than using smokescreen.
Rusty, keep it coming. If necessary I'll start debating you to keep it going, even though I am aware of a lot of this stuff already.
Question though: Do you have any suggestions on how to overcome the impression that we are ants trying to fight a gorilla.
The lad's allright Chillum. My fault for winding him up really, I have wry sense of humour that doesn't translate in text. In answer to your question No. That's just what we are. Effing plebs! :lol
The answer is greater transparency and openness in government, but we don't have that because of so called 'security issues'. The security issues they themselves create that is. Like the bogey man. Russians, now terrorists, then perhaps the Chinese, then it'll probably be the extraterrestrial threat. So long as your kept in fear of something external you will look to the government to do something about it, and if that means losing a little liberty to feel safe along the way then that's what people will accept. And that's what the government will provide.
The reason why the USSR failed and China succeeds is an open economic market. A totalitarian government based on commerce. There are no ‘Human Rights’ just human manipulation. It's a very successful business model and this hasn't gone unnoticed in the west. They know they can't fight China, they can't out produce or out manufacture China, but they can emulate it. By combining nations into larger entities like the EU, and eventually further combining under one world banking system Earth becomes a social economic collective.
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Slaninar in every post I have read of yours you are the one guy who I feel is able to understand the way things are going.
Compliments are nice, but a pint of ale is nicer. :)
I'd say your history teacher was correct. Now imagine if instead of 'some states do it more some states do it less', those states were to merge in what could be termed a collective. If they did this via financial means first before political, then you would eventually arrive at a point where Earth becomes one giant social collective.
Exactly. Like those cyberpunk SF novels of 80s: large corporations are starting to run everything. Politicians are paid to lead people by the laws that suit people with lots of resources (money, goods, power, land....). Money itself is a great way to fraud people. Most of it explained in Zeitgeist.
Like I said earlier if people are interested enough I'll post up some more, if not then I won't. It change anything, only by reading they might see it coming when it does, and following another major world event next spring I believe that time is fast approaching.
I'm quite pessimistic. 1984 at it's best. We all have mobile phones, facebook, CCTV everywhere. Most people owe some money to banks. So lots of means to control people, little unity among people. It will slowl get worse and worse. Until we all work like the Chinese, for a few dollars a day. And we'll be happy with our few dollars, better than those poor africans ,yeees. And we will envy those with whole 10 dolars a day! And fight among each other for crums of bread. Some, very few will have it all. That's the direction we're heading it seems.
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I was watching a program on TV a couple of nights ago called "SUPERCARS - PORSCHE PANAMERA". As much as the program was about the car, it was also about the manufacture of it. It was completely and utterly STAGGERING! Parts are delivered every single day by 150 artics and those parts are all used within 24 hours. No single process in the factory takes longer than 140 seconds. The investment and planning and the logistics of it all are almost incomprehensible!!! You have to see it all to believe it - your jaw will drop to the floor.
When it finished, I came upstairs to tinker on the internet and on here I found this thread and read through it. I then read something that you (Rusty) had said to me previously....
"Knowledge of the truth is deliberately kept from us as they fear telling us the truth, or that we should learn it before they are ready. They are almost ready now, and are killing whistle blowers to silence them until they are completely ready. Then will come war, man made disasters (from volcano's and earthquakes caused by the use of a Tesla machine) and biological warfare. Their aim is to reduce the world's population by 4/5ths and bring in a new world order. Once the population has been culled there will be disclosure, which will then introduce the new paradigm".
What a simpleton like me doesn't get, is why all these incredibly clever people who make VAST, long-term investments in things like super-factories when the future is (according to some) so feckin gloomy! Obviously, the Porsche factory is just one of a myriad projects around the world which are all being worked on - in vain?
I also watched something called "Preppers" which was a bunch of crazy people in America preparing for the imminent "Doomsday" by pickling jars of food every day. Personally, I think that if the end of the world was coming, it'd be a nuclear wipeout initiated by the Arabs.
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I also watched something called "Preppers" which was a bunch of crazy people in America preparing for the imminent "Doomsday" by pickling jars of food every day. Personally, I think that if the end of the world was coming, it'd be a nuclear wipeout initiated by the Arabs.
Bush? Is that you? :)
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4/5th's you say? I wouldn't settle for less than 999/1000th's
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Personally, I think that if the end of the world was coming, it'd be a nuclear wipeout initiated by the Arabs.
Bush? Is that you? :)
Do you seriously think Bush could have strung together a sentence like that with no spelling mistakes? :lol
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What a simpleton like me doesn't get, is why all these incredibly clever people who make VAST, long-term investments in things like super-factories when the future is (according to some) so feckin gloomy! Obviously, the Porsche factory is just one of a myriad projects around the world which are all being worked on - in vain?
Those are two different issues. The global increasing population has been recognised as future a problem by all politicians so there will eventually have to be some form of population control, others want a reduction. That's a long term aim whatever happens, but I suppose it's just one of those 'coincidences' that war or pandemic has been the usual method of achieving it.
None of us can know what's ahead MadDog but for sure we live in uncertain times. As with any uncertainty the best a business can do is to carry on as normal, which is why long term investment etc still happens. It can't not happen can it? Everyone can't just disappear down a hole in case something bad happens. Besides, just like in the military when some info is above your security clearance so it is in politics, only a few really know what might happen next. We can only guess or speculate based on what we discover.
They keep talking about rogue states and terrorists on TV, but for me there's no bigger rogue state that Israel.
No one wants war, well certainly not the poor saps that have to fight it. So apart from the Zionists who believe in end times prophesies and want to bring about armagedon so god will come back, there isn't a concerted effort to bring about a war, but the conditions are there and they are being stimulated by someone. I think war is possible by next spring. Anyone who has their eye on the ball knows Israel wants that, and Romney will make it happen. Looking at Obama's performance on the face off the other night he looked like a man who's already been told.
I've read report after report from some of the world's top agencies and they all believe Iran has no intention of developing WMD's. It's the same phoney excuse they used before. Israel attacks Iran, Iran attacks US military bases nearby, the US are drawn in to defend Israel, Russia and China support Iran, and Japan may yet attack China. It's a tinderbox. Add to that the creation of anti American hatred in the middle east (by Israel) and it don't look rosy.
At least if it happens it happens, we'll know for certain then. :lol Oh, and it won't be nuclear wipeout Tom it doesn't work like that. It will be conventional or tac nuke so that arms can be sold to both sides and a tidy profit made by the guys that caused it - just like all the other wars. Then they profit later from all the rebuilding contract work that has to be done, no profit in rebuilding a toxic wasteland.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm (http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm)
I also watched something called "Preppers" which was a bunch of crazy people in America preparing for the imminent "Doomsday" by pickling jars of food every day.
As recently as five years ago I'd have thought them nuts. Now I think them sensible, if only for protection against civil unrest.
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Well, maybe I'm a blind, ignorant sap, but I ain't gonna lose a single night's sleep over the end of the world. For as long as it's available to me, I'm gonna ride my bike, eat good food, drink good wine and make love every night to my
gorgeous wife. :lol And since it's all gonna kick off next Spring, then I guess there's not a single thing I could do about it anyway.
Out of curiosity, what it is that you are going to do?
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Well, maybe I'm a blind, ignorant sap, but I ain't gonna lose a single night's sleep over the end of the world. For as long as it's available to me, I'm gonna ride my bike, eat good food, drink good wine and make love every night to my gorgeous wife.
Even if a new war did erupt in the middle east it's not exactly the end of the world Tom. Well not for you personally, but certainly for many other poor bastards. Still......
Bottom's up eh? Pass the smoked salmon.
And good luck in getting that petrol to ride your bike. ;)
Out of curiosity, what it is that you are going to do?
A better question was "What can we going do now to stop such things happening in future"? But hey-ho, if shit and fan ever do collide then I'll just look after the people I love in the best way I can.
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Hahahha, you're just like a politician - you don't answer the question asked - you suggest an alternative question :rollin
And as for the petrol, I said "for as long as it's available to me" ;)
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Hahahha, you're just like a politician - you don't answer the question asked - you suggest an alternative question :rollin
You might be right there MadDog. :lol
Politicians do say it that way don't they, while if you asked that of the military they'd say "That's classified information'. I suppose in the end they both mean the same thing though don't they?
And as for the petrol, I said "for as long as it's available to me" ;)
But that's exactly the attitude I don't understand of people. :\
Everything should be available to you. If it exists out there then it should be available to you. You sound like a kid that's happy to be allowed to play out until 8.00pm. People are far too submissive, they're just happy to sit around until their toys are taken away from them one by one. And even then they meekly accept it. If your child had cancer and there was a cure in existence would you want it or would you be satisfied that you could only have it if someone allowed you to have it?
Had I continued with this thread I intended to reveal several other technologies that already exist under black projects. The funding of which runs into the trillions of dollars each year. Remember I mentioned Shauberger's repulsine engine from 60 years ago? Not only is there a development of Viktor Shauberger's repulsine technology that delivers virtually free energy, but many other propulsion systems are in operation that don't use internal combustion. I'll say that again - they don't use internal combustion.
Those who are actually bothering to read this might be starting to put the pieces together now, it means we don't need oil, nor the wars that are propagated to ensure the sale of oil remains in support the US dollar. If this technology were even hinted at, the US economy would collapse as their currency is based almost entirely on the trade of oil. When people say the war in Iraq was about oil they are not thinking right. It's not about the aquisition of oil - America has oil of it's own. It's about controlling the Sale of oil, and ensuring that it remains saleable only in US dollars.
John Perkins: from gold standard to petro dollar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWPulhqUyTY#)
Without the Petro-Dollar there is no America, and without Oil there is no Petro-Dollar. Hence the suppression of new technology and repeated wars to maintain the status quo. The dilemma that they face is that many former employees on those secret projects are now turning whistleblower, or giving deathbed confessions of military technology secrets. It's something the governments can't prevent, they can only attempt damage limitation exercises by spreading disinformation, discrediting the source, and encouraging ridicule.
Remember the HAARP technology I told you about? The one that has the capability to change the weather? Well when testing it they noticed that it also had unpleasant side effects, such as it can be aimed to cause earthquakes and volcano eruptions. The Israeli's want to attack Iran, but I think they have been told to hold off while the US try HAARP first. I don't know who this guy is but watch his short video.
The Path To WW3: HAARP Targeting Iran Nuclear Reactors with Earthquakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ6yq0ZovYI#)
Surely you have to ask yourselves how come you don't know this stuff? It's happening right there in front of you, and while the technology exists to allow a huge leap forward for the whole of mankind it is hidden from you. Meanwhile we are micro managed by media propaganda into endless wars. Go figure.
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While this is all very interesting we've kinda wandered away from the topic of the conversation of the thread in the first place.. :eek
If I want doom and gloom I just gotta look at my bank account after the bills come off.. can we get back on topic and move the rest to a different thead perhaps..
Budgie
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Sure. I've no problem with that, why don't we ask the original poster? :)
In fact, there's no need. I'll post one last point and then I'm done - and gone.
I'm trying to give you something here, think of it as the gift of sight. People are posting plenty about the crippling price of fuel or the pitiful state of their bank accounts, with ever longer hours at work just to get by. The 'big secret' is that it doesn't need to be that way. We are all considered to be what Henry Kissinger referred to as 'useless eaters'.
Don't you ever pause to think why it is that when it comes to election time you supposedly have choices, yet the only choice you have is to vote for a man you don't really like in order to remove a man you like even less? That's not choice. You're being duped.
I know all this goes over the heads of many, others have no interest, while others still have only self interest. So these final words are aimed at those that are left, the few who are of independent mind. The ultimate tyranny in a society is not control by martial law, but control by psychological manipulation. Manipulation through which reality is not only defined for you, but defined in such a way that those within it do not even realise they are in prison.
Alternative energy exists. Alternate propulsion systems exist. The generation of free non-nuclear energy has been perfected. The Hughes air corporation had anti-gravity technology over 50 years ago. Rocket engines, jet engines, internal combustion engines, wind turbines, solar and nuclear power are all obsolete technologies that are expensively continued because of the interests vested in the status quo.
I see people on here arguing about local politics. Politics is as obsolete as the internal combustion engine. They should be studying geopolitics, and soon Exopolitics. The entire global macro-economic system is based on oil, the products derived from it, or the products that use it. The world's governments have painted themselves into a corner, and interests far more powerful than they themselves are require that fossil fuels continue to be used. Everything rests on oil as a commodity, like a huge house of cards made up of vested interests.
Wars are fought to protect the petro dollar, and the increase in Earth's population to 7 billion will require ever more dependency on this outdated but perpetuated technology. The result is ever spiralling pollution and ever more wars. Therefore climate change is driven by fossil fuel pollution that needn't be, but the technology to avoid it is suppressed to serve the interests of the few over the many. This isn't just joe blogs on the internet telling you this, this is what I relay to you from others.
The list of 'crackpots' is long, I'm unable to list them all so in no particular order or importance I'll just give your four. They are of this calibre.
Gordon Cooper. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Cooper) Gemini and Mercury Astronaut
Mark McClelland. (http://www.astro.cornell.edu/events/your-name-here-6.html) N.A.S.A space craft operator. Worked 34 years on Mercury, Apollo,Skylab, Space shuttle, and the International space station.
John Huchison. (http://www.hutchisoneffect.ca/) John demonstrates anti-gravity and molecular alignment technology.
Edgar Mitchell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell) Astronaut. Apollo 14.
Ok I'm done. Next time you watch the news just maybe you'll be able to join the dots a little better, or maybe you won't. It's entirely up to you, as it always was. Most are happy to let it all slip through their fingers then grumble about the results. At least I can say I tried.
Bye fella's.
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Buy a new one :pc
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Ok I'm done. Next time you watch the news just maybe you'll be able to join the dots a little better, or maybe you won't.
I seem to remember David Icke saying something similar. The problem with this sort of paranoid conspiracy theory stuff is that none of it is really based on hard evidence, just a bonkers interpretation of events.
Also, people with power and shady political ambitions don't have a monopoly on brilliant ideas/inventions y'know. Some of us normal folk outside the military etc do come up with great inventions and technology all the time and we don't usually get kidnapped by MI5 before we can tell the rest of the world.
I used to be a patent 'bonded' draughtsman years ago, I've drawn one or two curious things over the years, some with a military bent - and I'm still here.
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I seem to remember David Icke saying something similar. The problem with this sort of paranoid conspiracy theory stuff is that none of it is really based on hard evidence, just a bonkers interpretation of events.
Have you read it though Phil? I have a copy and was looking through it the other day and there is a lot of written evidence, names, dates meetings, the people who own things etc. All* he did was join the dots and paint a picture. Might not have been 100% accurate* but there is a lot of stuff everyone was saying was crackers that has actually turned out to be true.
*lizards