old - Fazer Owners Club - old
General => General => Topic started by: Grahamm on 19 September 2012, 05:03:47 pm
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http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38877 (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38877)
Currently there is a tiered system for obtaining a full category 'A' motorcycle entitlement for new riders. As of January 2013 those requirements become stricter still, this presumably is intended to reduce the number of 'Killed or Seriously Injured' motorcyclists on UK roads.
In the interest of equality and road safety the same measure should be applied to new car drivers as novice drivers can currently legally drive a motor car of any horsepower. As motorcars are the cheaper and more preferred option for new drivers surely this inconsistency needs to be addressed.
I propose that new drivers have a cap placed on the size of engine/horse power they are permitted to drive for a minimum probationary period similar to that found with the motorcycle categories. This year has seen the first rise nationally in KSI numbers in over a decade.
I can certainly support this!
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Done!
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even with a 33hp restrictor in bikes still have a better power to weight ratio than most cars.
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Great idea-just signed
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done
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Not so sure on this.. Car insurance is crazy money these days for young drivers. 19 year old at my work has a 1.6 Honda civic and is paying £3000 to insure it!!
he is rather large and wanted something like a vectra or a mondeo but they wanted even more money to insure.
my point is that if young people want a hot hatch they have to really pay for it.. for a laugh he did an on-line quote for my 3.2 litre vectra and it was £9500... to give a comparison i am 33 years young and pay £500.
If anything i find the older generation is worse. they are the ones who pull out in front of me me most of the time. there is also an old bloke down my local who thinks nothing of having 5 or 6 pints and driving home..
Rant over :) i can see the point but i will be honest i don't really agree. sorry.
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even with a 33hp restrictor in bikes still have a better power to weight ratio than most cars.
That's true but I'd rather put someone in charge of a 150kg machine instead of a 1200kg one that they feel a lot safer in!
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I am in the unfortunate position that my son has just passed both his car and bike test and at 17 1/2 years old, insuring teh ER-5 he bought was a piece of pi$$ compared to the quotes for his Ford Fiesta 1.25 that is 12 years old!
BHP limits on bikes are easy to enforce but I am not sure it would be possible with a car. I would make everyone ride a bike for 12 months before they are allowed in a car rather than go for a BHP limit on cars. Ultimately it will make them better drivers.
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my point is that if young people want a hot hatch they have to really pay for it..
Or get their parent to illegally "front" for them by claiming that they are the main driver...
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Graham, when I was looking at insuring my sons car, the cost difference between me and him as the main driver was only £100. I wouldnt put me down as the main driver if I wasnt the main driver but do know people that have had issues.
One persons wife drove the car monday-friday and the son drove the car at weekends only. Son did more miles but over less days. Who is the main driver???
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In Scotland recently one guy is in a serious condition and three other guys were hospitalized after two Corsa's collided..... I'm not saying they were either one litre or GTI variants but even if restricting young drivers to 20HP per ton and only allowing one passenger this would probably still have happened.
And what if the driver/s had been 24 ? Would they suddenly have become sensible and should be allowed to drive any power limit as per DAS ?
Just my tuppence worth.
Baz :)
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I suspect the only thing that could be described as powerful about the cars driven by the young drivers I was moaning about recently would have been the in-car entertainment systems. :lol
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my point is that if young people want a hot hatch they have to really pay for it..
Or get their parent to illegally "front" for them by claiming that they are the main driver...
Then the parent is to blame... it is a grey area. it needs to be outlined as to what they deem as a main driver and a named driver..
It just seems to me a miserable old person somewhere has it in for young people wanting to have fun.
I would much rather they were out enjoying a car or bike than gatering outside local shops being a nuisance...
There should be driver education before they even get behind a wheel like they have in some parts of America.
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One persons wife drove the car monday-friday and the son drove the car at weekends only. Son did more miles but over less days. Who is the main driver???
You'd have to ask an insurance company.
But there have been cases of parents claiming to be the "main driver" of a car that is in an entirely different city where their child is a student. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10241769 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10241769) for instance.
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I would much rather they were out enjoying a car or bike than gatering outside local shops being a nuisance...
As opposed to being a nuisance (and, worse, a danger) to others by incompetently or recklessly "enjoying" their car or bike?
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Pretty pointless imo. As said already the price of insurance for new drivers is mental making having anything powerful prohibitivly expensive. Having a low power car doesn't stop you driving like a twat either, 75bhp is still enough to get you to 100mph. Saying that though my last car was 136bhp but had a 0-60 time of 17 seconds and a top speed of 98... is that too powerful for someone in-experienced? Just for reference it made a Fiat Seicento with it's 55bhp seem fast :eek
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As for size of engine... the aforementioned 136bhp car was a 2.5 litre turbo diesel. The new Mondeo is supposed to have a 175bhp twin turbo 1.0 litre, so that isn't a very good deciding factor either. You'd also get round it with a bike engined Mini/Westfield :D
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I would much rather they were out enjoying a car or bike than gathering outside local shops being a nuisance...
As opposed to being a nuisance (and, worse, a danger) to others by incompetently or recklessly "enjoying" their car or bike?
Having a power restriction does not change the mentality or the ability of these people though does it..
For me personally i can remember being 17 (just) and being really excited about having my own transport. i just don't think power restriction is the answer. if they do like bikes and limit the power depending on age then people will just wait till they are old enough for a full power license. I know 2 people that did the same for their bikes.
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I've signed it but only because of what I see as inequality between bike and car tests. Whether or not it would have an instant effect on insurance is not important as far as I see it, a generation or so of better new drivers could make roads safer and surely that's more important, it might even reduce premiums (probably not though).
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Good start, but why stop there? I have always believed that a standard licence should only entitle you to drive vehicles up to a certain size or power.
How about a separate test requirement to drive a 4x4 or large SUV ?
Try and drive through Weybridge when all the little Tarquins and Hermiones are being collected from school and you will be surrounded by mums struggling to get their tanks through gaps wide enough for two London buses.
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Good start, but why stop there? I have always believed that a standard licence should only entitle you to drive vehicles up to a certain size or power.
How about a separate test requirement to drive a 4x4 or large SUV ?
Try and drive through Weybridge when all the little Tarquins and Hermiones are being collected from school and you will be surrounded by mums struggling to get their tanks through gaps wide enough for two London buses.
That's not because they're driving a 4x4, that's because they can't drive.
My Mondeo is longer than a Land Rover Discovery, maybe that should be covered too? Maybe a basic licence should restrict you to one of these (http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk/images/news-images/Invalidcar.jpg) until you pass additional tests to cover bigger engine/physical size/number of seats/number of cupholders.
;)
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Having a power restriction does not change the mentality or the ability of these people though does it..
No, but if they have to do another test to demonstrate their ability, maybe they'll remember a bit more of what they learned.
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nah
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Having a power restriction does not change the mentality or the ability of these people though does it..
No, but if they have to do another test to demonstrate their ability, maybe they'll remember a bit more of what they learned.
They've already done one though, if that isn't good enough then that test needs to be changed rather than add another, optional, test.
Fwiw I drove like a bit of a twat when I first passed my test (like a lot of 18 year olds I guess) and only calmed down when I got a speeding ticket three months later. Having a 70bhp 1.4 litre car didn't stop me from doing 45 in a 30.
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They've already done one though, if that isn't good enough then that test needs to be changed rather than add another, optional, test.
The first Test simply demonstrates that you've achieved the *bare minimum* standard to be allowed out on the roads in control of a vehicle, that's it.
And for car drivers, that *is* it, when you can show you can do that bare minimum, there's absolutely no requirement to even demonstrate it again unless you do something sufficiently stupid to get yourself banned and have to do a retest, so you can get into all sorts of bad habits (which you're probably not even aware of), let alone even read a copy of the Highway Code again.
Making the first Test harder isn't really going to make people remember anything more once they've done it, the only thing that will is making them have to demonstrate subsequently that they still know it.
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So what you need is compulsary retests every few years, not a power restriction for new drivers. I'm sure I have bad habits now that I didn't have when I passed my test (driving one handed for example) but I'm a far better driven now than I was then.
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its all very well the people that have already past the test! (i doubt the learners would jump at the chance to make the process more elaborate than it needs to be!!) to sign up to the idea a way a standard should be brought about, lm sure the dsa would love the idea of making a profit from this idea but i do believe learning to drive is but a very simple learning process. Rant Rant Rant
Unless were talking about a free course here..... unlikely.
what are we talkinig about again.
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Good idea - I've just signed.
I like the idea of making someone get experience on a motorbike first before taking the test in a car. Would improve road sense and make them more aware of bike riders. If they insisted on doing stupid things they would probably injure less people as well, if not just themselves.
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I'm not sure i entirely agree with this. Here's for why:-
I passed bike test, restricted, 6 odd year ago. After 2 year was up, massive sigh of relief. I still hooned with the restrictor. I was 26/27 year old. No car licence at that time. Fair enough then. Had i spent the money, DAS, but i chose not to.
I got a job with the fire service last year that required a full UK licence. It didn't specify 2 wheels or 4 wheels but i met the criteria. Technically. So 9 lessons and the test i got the full entitlement in september last year. GO ME!!! :woot
I now drive a variety of cars for the service as part of my duties (diesels, so 1500cc and more) and if this restriction came into it, i would not be able to do the job. The petition doesn't state age at any point, so if it was only for younger folk, then woop, but otherwise, i'd have been screwed.
And having been riding for years, i'm no road novice and been karting in my spare time since i was 16, had a bunch of driving lessons some years back and i have a fair knowledge of how to handle 4 wheels, even prior to passing my test. I'm only a year in, knocked back down to 6 point probation (which is actually 3 until the SP30 runs out in feb, then back to 6 til next sept) and if this came into force, i'd still be classed as a n00b.
I'm all for equality, but not so much of a fan of whataboutery
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The petition doesn't state age at any point
True, but the implication is that, as with bikes, it would have similar age bands because it's the 17-25 age group who are the biggest risk.
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When its law, implications have interpretations, I'd prefer it prescribed in this case.
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I have signed it
Around here (mid Wales) you can take a pass+ lesson so that your instructor will take you to a dual carriageway and show you the ropes as there are none around here. I think that should be compulsory and the 'P' plate indicating that you passed recently so we can all see who you are.
I see the arguments above about insurance being a limiting factor but as I feel that further training for bikers (bikesafe, IAM, ROSPA) should be compulsory for bikers- for their own safety, I think the same should apply to new drivers- I say new as not all drivers who just passed their test are 17- my wife didnt pass her test till she was about 40
I think some of the problem might be (for youngsters) that their artillery barrel exhaust on a Corsa and sound system up full and arm out the window means they are not concentrating on the road and cant here other road users.... now a limit on overall noise (sound and exhaust) like bikers are limited- would be a good cause
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I have signed it
Around here (mid Wales) you can take a pass+ lesson so that your instructor will take you to a dual carriageway and show you the ropes as there are none around here. I think that should be compulsory and the 'P' plate indicating that you passed recently so we can all see who you are.
I see the arguments above about insurance being a limiting factor but as I feel that further training for bikers (bikesafe, IAM, ROSPA) should be compulsory for bikers- for their own safety, I think the same should apply to new drivers- I say new as not all drivers who just passed their test are 17- my wife didnt pass her test till she was about 40
I think some of the problem might be (for youngsters) that their artillery barrel exhaust on a Corsa and sound system up full and arm out the window means they are not concentrating on the road and cant here other road users.... now a limit on overall noise (sound and exhaust) like bikers are limited- would be a good cause
Anything that is obviously louder than a standard system should fail the MOT. Afaik there's no hard limit, but if you stick a huge fart cannon on a Corsa it should fail. That said my 200sx passed every year with a moderately louder (louder than standard but not stupid) exhaust on it.
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In respect to having louder exhausts on a bike, when I had my 1200 Bandit, the very first day i took it out I was nearly taken off it by a stupid woman at a roundabout crossing from her left hand lane (as if to turn left and also marked on the road) into the right lane where i was to go straight over the roundabout, simply because she didn't hear me there let alone SEE me there!!...That day, i went home and fitted a nice ART race can which was oviously illegal but at least the bike could be heard. That alone must make it right to fit louder exhausts to bikes?????...... :evil :evil :evil
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You'll notice my low post count, it literally should be in the thousands but every time i conjure up a responce l reread my post and realise: Christ l'd get chucked out this place.
:lol
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Not gonna be signing this, I'm afraid.
I don't think the solution to over-legislation is more laws.
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Thank You Breadlord!
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You'll notice my low post count, it literally should be in the thousands but every time i conjure up a responce l reread my post and realise: Christ l'd get chucked out this place.
It is notoriously difficult to get chucked out of this place
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Low powered cars do 70mph
I'd rather my kids were in a car with the better brakes and handling of a higher powered car
if it all went Pete Tong at 70