Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: His Dudeness on 23 August 2012, 12:32:53 am
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Hey. I was wondering if anyone has replaced a cam chain what riveting tool did you use? Thanks
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reading the haynes manual,the thundercat has a split link ;) cant see why i would not work on the fazer :)
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would probably work but i just wouldn't trust a split link
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would probably work but i just wouldn't trust a split link
yes ..i know what you mean......going back a few years,hondas twin cylinder cb 500 had a link,and i know of a few that failed :eek ........but never heard of one failing on the thundercat :D
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I used a split link camchain on my 1st mk1, no probs on it after 20,000miles when I sold it.
I used my chain tool which came with smaller pins to press the cam chain together, will be doing it again to my latest mk1.
'Just to edit this I mean't to say the chain I used was an endless chain that I had to riveted together not a split link type'
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nice one griff. any chance you could stick up a link to the riveter you used?
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Chain-Heavy-Duty-Breaker-Riveter-Riveting-Tool-Kit-420-532-Chains-/200785291675?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2ebfbc699b (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Chain-Heavy-Duty-Breaker-Riveter-Riveting-Tool-Kit-420-532-Chains-/200785291675?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item2ebfbc699b)
This is the one I have. It doesn't come with instructions but it almost identical to the Motion Pro chain tool so I downloaded their instructions.
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I'll probably get that one thanks ;) . Would you have any tips on riveting the link or replacing the cam chain in general?
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with the split link in place you will be able to take the head off with out taking the cams out ;) the cams have access holes in them to reach the head bolts ;) same as the thunder cat :D
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I wouldn't take the head off to do it, another £60 on top of the job to replace the head gasket.
Its quite an easy job if you take ur time with it.
When the cams are off and the cam chain is split I reattatch the the new cam chain to the old one and feed it through the engine then rivet the new chain together. I find this is the easiest way to make sure the chain goes all the way round the bottom sprocket.
Just to see how much the old chain has stretched I measure the new one on a bench before fitting then compare that to the old one.
As for the tool link, I think this one is better,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1)
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I wouldn't take the head off to do it, another £60 on top of the job to replace the head gasket.
Its quite an easy job if you take ur time with it.
When the cams are off and the cam chain is split I reattatch the the new cam chain to the old one and feed it through the engine then rivet the new chain together. I find this is the easiest way to make sure the chain goes all the way round the bottom sprocket.
Just to see how much the old chain has stretched I measure the new one on a bench before fitting then compare that to the old one.
As for the tool link, I think this one is better,
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1[/url])
thought i would mention the fact that you could take the head off if you had a split link in the chain....an added bonus ;)
the way you have described how to replace the chain is indeed the best way,no need to remove the head :D [size=78%]......think you could do it with the cams in place as well if you slide out the front chain tensioner [/size] ;)
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yeah just doing the chain for now. its hard to know which riveter to get because there's quite a few different types and the prices vary quite a bit
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I personally would never (and have never) used a split chain.... way too risky and to me it seems almost a botched job done that way.
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I personally would never (and have never) used a split chain.... way too risky and to me it seems almost a botched job done that way.
when you say you wouldn't use a split link would you include a riveted link as well?
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I think what Deefer does(from what I've read on here)is to split the engine and fit an endless chain like the way it gets done in the factory, gives you the chance to check other parts of the engine are within tolerence.
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I think what Deefer does(from what I've read on here)is to split the engine and fit an endless chain like the way it gets done in the factory, gives you the chance to check other parts of the engine are within tolerence.
ah yeah i know. im not really setup for a full engine rebulid. i think most people use a riveted chain
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Thought I'd jump in here as Ive just replaced my cam chain using a splitter/riveter like the one linked above.
It took me about 6 hours from taking the tank off to restarting the engine. The DID chain came pre split with a soft link rivet and the installation was painless. I did have help from my younger son, but only to help keep the new chain taut as it was fed down the front of the engine as I turned the engine over and pulled the old chain out the rear. It only took about 5 mins to actually do the rivetting.
I did consider a total engine split but decided against it purely cos of the amount of hassle involved.
I measured the new chain length prior to fitting and it turned out to be 3mm shorter than the old one. It may not sound a hell of a lot but the difference was instantly noticable as I started the bike. It purred rather than rattled and I counted the clicks on the CCT as it tightened the chain so I know theres a good few left.
I'd happily use a split chain again with a soft link
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my pal who races bikes(mostly fzr 400s) says if you thrashing the engine only use an endless chain or if you are doing a total engine rebuild put an endless one in but for the average rider who doesnt go redline the bike everywhere a soft link should be fine,he says never at all use a split link in the chain !
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Thought I'd jump in here as Ive just replaced my cam chain using a splitter/riveter like the one linked above.
It took me about 6 hours from taking the tank off to restarting the engine. The DID chain came pre split with a soft link rivet and the installation was painless. I did have help from my younger son, but only to help keep the new chain taut as it was fed down the front of the engine as I turned the engine over and pulled the old chain out the rear. It only took about 5 mins to actually do the rivetting.
I did consider a total engine split but decided against it purely cos of the amount of hassle involved.
I measured the new chain length prior to fitting and it turned out to be 3mm shorter than the old one. It may not sound a hell of a lot but the difference was instantly noticable as I started the bike. It purred rather than rattled and I counted the clicks on the CCT as it tightened the chain so I know theres a good few left.
I'd happily use a split chain again with a soft link
Good post that Bias.
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Thought I'd jump in here as Ive just replaced my cam chain using a splitter/riveter like the one linked above.
It took me about 6 hours from taking the tank off to restarting the engine. The DID chain came pre split with a soft link rivet and the installation was painless. I did have help from my younger son, but only to help keep the new chain taut as it was fed down the front of the engine as I turned the engine over and pulled the old chain out the rear. It only took about 5 mins to actually do the rivetting.
I did consider a total engine split but decided against it purely cos of the amount of hassle involved.
I measured the new chain length prior to fitting and it turned out to be 3mm shorter than the old one. It may not sound a hell of a lot but the difference was instantly noticable as I started the bike. It purred rather than rattled and I counted the clicks on the CCT as it tightened the chain so I know theres a good few left.
I'd happily use a split chain again with a soft link
yeah nice one ;) so you used this type riveter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1)
and this chain http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/ (http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/)
is that right?
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yeah nice one ;) so you used this type riveter [url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1[/url])
and this chain [url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/[/url] ([url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/[/url])
is that right?
Yep, they're the offending items :)
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yeah nice one ;) so you used this type riveter [url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CHAIN-LINK-SPLITTER-RIVETER-TOOL-HEAVY-DUTY-/390357102833?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae318b0f1[/url])
and this chain [url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/[/url] ([url]http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/cam_timing_chain_did/[/url])
is that right?
Yep, they're the offending items :)
cool thanks ;)
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Could someone tell me the complete procedure to change the chain. From removing the tank to putting it back on. Do I need to remove the engine from the frame. What about the tensioners - can I change these as well, without taking out the engine and without removing the head.
My engine ratles like a box of nails. I would like to change both chain and tensioner but preferably without removing the engine.
Enlighten me!!!
Mads
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Yes, I always remove the engine and split the casings to fit an endless chain, I too have had riveted links let go on me in the past. I can do it all in one day, but I guess thats the advantage of being a bike mechanic with a kitted out workshop.
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Buy the Haynes Manual first and then download the Yamaha service manual from the down loads section. Having both is better than just one and the Haynes pictures are helpful to beginners.
These are the items requiring removal:
There is no need to remove the engine
Remove the Tank
Remove the side panels on air box
Remove the side covers
Remove the coils and fuel pump
Remove the carbs
Remove the cam cover end caps
Remove the bolt holding the Coolant filler/thermostat
Remove the Alternator Cover and tie it up
Remove the cam chain tensioner (remove the bolt and spring at the end first to release the pressure on the tensioner
Remove the cam cover from the left side and move the coolant filler/thermostat to facilitate removal of the cover.
Remove the spark plugs and cover the spark plug holes just to stop anything from fallin in.
Break the chain and be careful no to drop anything down the chain tunnel
Remove the cams
With the cams removed you can turn the crank as all valves are closed and no compression as plugs are removed.
Under no circumstance turn the crank until the plugs and cams are removed.
Make sure all dowels are out of the inlet side of the head as they will impede the refitting of the inlet camshaft
Lining them up on refitting is fiddly but with a new chain all timing marks should line correctly
The split link is not as we know it but what is known as a soft link which can be peened over like the like on the drive chain.
However I would recommend that the peening over of the soft link is not done by a novice.
I did not find the motion pro tool or type tool very effective and reverted to the heavy and light hammer method
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Hey thanks a lot for the explanation. Is it possible to change the cam chain guides from the top or do I need to remove engine from frame and remove the head to change those?
Cheers! :)
Mads
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The front chain guide can be taken out with a bit of wriggling if you remove the cams but the actual rear tensioner guide is at least a top end off/engine out/split job because of where its bolted at the bottom of the tensioner blade .... stunning design .. ;)
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Ok, I will have to just change the chain and front guide then. Hope that will quiet it down. At this point I have no more clicks in the chain tensioner.
/Mads